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What is Going to Happen to Springfield Armory and other Illinois Manufacturers?

The Speech at the Meeting:
I am here to speak in opposition to this bill titled Protect Illinois Communities Act. While the name of the bill seems innocent, I will explain why the bill is unconstitutional, does not protect citizens, and does not reinforce current laws and regulations in-place to protect the common citizen.
I first wish to cover landmark Supreme Court cases relevant to the 2nd amendment.
Heller vs DC (2008): DC banned possession of handguns. US Supreme Court ruled that a handgun ban is unconstitutional. Heller defined the terms of the 2nd Amendment. To Keep is defined to as “To Possess” and To Bear as “To Carry”. Arms is defined under Heller based in the 1773 Edition of the Samuel Johnson’s Dictionary as “Weapons of offense and armor of defense”. The US Supreme Court has stated, “The Second Amendment extends Prima facie to all instruments that constitutes bearable arms even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding.”
Bruen: Applies that restrictions must be based on longstanding historic or tradition of the United States. Long standing historic or tradition was defined under Bruen as being at the time of founding of the law, back in 1791. This does not mean laws that were passed in the past 100 years. Under Bruen, the burden on historical regulations and context rests on the government to appeal. Current court cases appealing Bruen standings in NY, CA, and NJ have only been able to find laws existing to disarm free blacks, natives, and Catholics. I am hoping everyone on this panel would not accept any laws that would open discriminate on anyone like this, but if politicians are submitting evidence like this in courts, then we have a long way to go. Current court cases underway post-Bruen that are underway have filed temporary restraining orders, meaning they must not be enforced for a specified timeframe. A US District Court in Colorado issued a TRO against magazine and gun bans in Superior, Colorado. The ban had much of the same language similar to the current HB being discussed here today.
In October 2021, the CPD released a list of officers who joined vs those who left. It was listed that 51 officers joined in 2021, while 900 left. This is a stark comparison to 2019 when 444 joined, and 619 left. With a massive staffing shortage, and massive budget of $16.7 Billion dollars, police are slower to respond to emergencies where life and death can take seconds. I would like to provide average response time for CPD, but the data is unavailable. The city agreed to release the data to settle a lawsuit from the ACLU by February 2022. No records have been found to this day. This bill seeks to disarm citizens from defending their lives, their family with a comprehensive weapons ban. All the while being left at the mercy of law enforcement that may not show up on time. This does not protect Illinois Communities.
A final note I wish to note to everyone, either going for or against this bill, should heed these words very carefully. In the event of needing protection from great bodily harm or death, the police are required to protect you. Under multiple Court cases, going all the way to the US Supreme Court, police are not obligated to protect and serve.
• Warren v. DC (1981) - Held that the police do not owe a specific duty to provide police services. This includes saving your life from great harm. There are no legal obligations for police to place their life above another.
• Castle Rock v. Gonzales (2005) – Provided police do not need to protect those even with a restraining order against her assailant, the husband, that killed her three children. US Supreme Court ruled that police officers had not violated Gonzales’ procedural due process rights by failing to respond to her requests that the police enforce the order.
• Lozito v. NYC (2012) - NY Judge Chan agreed that police had "no special duty" to protect Lozito who was being attacked by a murderer who took the lives of 4 and injuring 5.
The origins of “To Protect and Serve” was a motto picked from a contest in 1955 for the LAPD. It does not hold any legal binding anymore than any other motto or slogan used by any company in the United States. Leaving citizens to becoming disarmed due to having sell, destroy, or surrender their arms under the current language or become felons overnight, is dangerous and does not Protect Illinois Communities. To disarm The People would not lower crimes, as Chicago had firearms ban, all the while firearms related crime persisted. To disarm The People would not save lives, as people with ill will, will find another method or go against the laws. To disarm The People, does not Protect Illinois Communities.
Thank you for your time.
 
Below is the official response from Springfield Armory on the proposed unconstitutional, Illinois house bill HB5855.

“Springfield Armory is monitoring the progress of bill HB5855 in the Illinois General Assembly. We are opposed to this ill-conceived, unconstitutional effort to restrict the rights of law-abiding citizens of the state of Illinois, and are working in concert with other Second Amendment defenders to help defeat this problematic legislation. Please contact your local State Representative and State Senator and ask them to vote “no” on this attempt to restrict the rights of the citizens of our state.”
 
ChanceMcCall- Great calm, level headed, fact filled response to what looks like an ill-advised bill that will, in no way, make Chicago or Illinois safer for the law abiding citizens as it doesn't address, in any way, the issue at hand: Crime! Thanks for taking the time to stand up for what's right! Well done!
 
There is a saying that goes " to those that know no explanation is necessary , to those that dont no explanation is possible." Im sure we all agree that the gun control folks its all about control and not guns. The problem with any gun control laws including the common sense ones is they do nothing to target the criminals. Only law abiding citizens which in my book makes any laws the other side wants to pass worthless.
 
Bassbob said:
All these states passing these unconstitutional gun bans are going to be sued and eventually the SCOTUS will have to intervene. They are blatantly ignoring the Bruen decision and the constitution. The problem is it will take years before the SCOTUS ever hears those cases and god knows if they will address those things adequately enough to prevent people from voting to pass unconstitutional laws.
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Doesn’t have to go all the way to SCOTUS, this law (if it is signed into law) can be struck in the State or lower Federal Courts, which would mean the State appealing up to SCOTUS. Given the circumstances and the Bruen decision, it seems to me to be likely. IMHO everything in this bill is an egregious affront to the 2nd Amendment and to foundational individual liberties.

Personally I suspect SCOTUS is chomping at the bit to further clarify its Bruen ruling, given the fact that several States are actively working to skirt it.
 
JB can care less if SA leaves, but I believe the Ban law still allows manufacturing but with limited products available to IL law abiding residents. i don’t think there ever was any tax incentives offered for them (SA) to expand anyway, so no penalty to shutter the business and move.
Good to see SA stand their ground.
Never letting a crisis go to waste, JB can always impose more restrictions and regulations to get SA to move, If they do decide to pack up, ol’ JB will turn that building to some gubmint subsidized welcoming center for a NGO 501c tax exempt sanctuary group anyway.
 
So, the Illinois governor signed this bill into law this past week, now what for Springfield Armory? Like others have mentioned, and yes sometimes easier said than done, a relatively simple solution is to move to a more gun friendly state. Besides TX, state of FL would be a good place to set-up a new gun manufacturing facility and also perhaps an ammunition plant. There are all kinds of incentives to move down here for both business and for the employees.

Hey Springfield Armory, I'm sure governor DeSantis would welcome you with open arms <------ Ha, see what I did there!! ;)
 
I don't feel bad for Springfield. The writing has been on the wall. They should have had seen this coming and planned their escape and relocation years back before the last SAFU blunder they had. They should have been gone a long time ago.

I can't find it in heart to really feel sorry for them. They remind me of stubborn idiots living in a trailer who KNOW a category 5 storm is coming, but they STILL refuse to leave.
 
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Everyones answer is, "RUN!" So we let these jag-offs have their way? That gives the left hope that they can do this to the next state. How the he!! Do you think we got here? We need to stand and fight. Take it to the courts and let it all shake out. We can't protest in the capital, because the majority of us have to work every day. That's no mistake.
This state is ruined. The ones with loudest whine get what they want.
Until the court system returns our rights (on paper) I will continue to possess my evil weapons of war and my evil magazines. Quite simply, I WILL NOT COMPLY! I will support counties whose Sheriffs have taken a stand. I will let elected officials know how I stand and what I expect from them. I will also be throwing some financial support behind one or more of the myriad of lawsuits.
I was born and raised here. My wife and I raised our children here. It ain't perfect, but it's my goddamn state and I ain't going anywhere.
 
Funwithfuel said:
Everyones answer is, "RUN!" So we let these jag-offs have their way? That gives the left hope that they can do this to the next state. How the he!! Do you think we got here? We need to stand and fight. Take it to the courts and let it all shake out. We can't protest in the capital, because the majority of us have to work every day. That's no mistake.
This state is ruined. The ones with loudest whine get what they want.
Until the court system returns our rights (on paper) I will continue to possess my evil weapons of war and my evil magazines. Quite simply, I WILL NOT COMPLY! I will support counties whose Sheriffs have taken a stand. I will let elected officials know how I stand and what I expect from them. I will also be throwing some financial support behind one or more of the myriad of lawsuits.
I was born and raised here. My wife and I raised our children here. It ain't perfect, but it's my goddamn state and I ain't going anywhere.
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We need more like you. (y)
 
Easy to move, so far we still have that right and liberty. We also have the Right to stand up to tyranny.

We were warned about how and who will be coming for our guns, our freedoms, our families.

There is a Privilege not a right per se, to own and drive a car (property) set by State law and regulation, not everybody owns or drives one…but those that do take a test and pay a fee to do so on annual basis and retested periodically and expected to follow the rules of safe operation.
The State can regulate this privilege, change standards and revoke registrations.

There is a Right to own and shoot a firearm (property) and it is expected that doing so is with caution and within the scope of lawfulness.
The Constitution guarantees the Right not be infringed upon.

The State should not be collecting fees, demanding licensing and registration for a Right under the Constitution. The State should not be allowed to change a Right into a Privilege by means of manipulating or creating a new definitions to appease a political faction.

“America Will Never a Socialist Country” ….hmmmm.


A few interesting views were brought to my attention to ponder, look them up;
- New California
- The 15 Minute City
- The Calhoun Rat Utopia
 
Funwithfuel said:
Everyones answer is, "RUN!" So we let these jag-offs have their way? That gives the left hope that they can do this to the next state. How the he!! Do you think we got here? We need to stand and fight. Take it to the courts and let it all shake out. We can't protest in the capital, because the majority of us have to work every day. That's no mistake.
This state is ruined. The ones with loudest whine get what they want.
Until the court system returns our rights (on paper) I will continue to possess my evil weapons of war and my evil magazines. Quite simply, I WILL NOT COMPLY! I will support counties whose Sheriffs have taken a stand. I will let elected officials know how I stand and what I expect from them. I will also be throwing some financial support behind one or more of the myriad of lawsuits.
I was born and raised here. My wife and I raised our children here. It ain't perfect, but it's my goddamn state and I ain't going anywhere.
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Springfield can fight in court and still take their business and tax dollars elsewhere just like S&W, Remington, Colt, Kimber, Beretta, Mossberg, Magpul, Stag Arms, and Kahr, just to name a few, did.

They can do business as usual from a gun friendly red state without worrying about being shut down, raided, fined, employees losing pay, they losing sales, financial obligations not being met, so on and so forth while the slow wheels of justice grind through the court system. That makes a lot more sense than them staying in constant threat, harassment, and in arms reach were the enemy can easily and constant attack.

The two aren't mutually exclusive. Both can be accomplished. If you're in a gun fight and you're moving out of the enemy's line of fire while still saying in the fight, that's NOT "running." That's just plain being smart and common sense. As long Springfield remains in the line of fire of Illinois antigun Democrat stronghold, they will keep getting hit.
 
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Funwithfuel said:
Everyones answer is, "RUN!" So we let these jag-offs have their way? That gives the left hope that they can do this to the next state. How the he!! Do you think we got here? We need to stand and fight. Take it to the courts and let it all shake out. We can't protest in the capital, because the majority of us have to work every day. That's no mistake.
This state is ruined. The ones with loudest whine get what they want.
Until the court system returns our rights (on paper) I will continue to possess my evil weapons of war and my evil magazines. Quite simply, I WILL NOT COMPLY! I will support counties whose Sheriffs have taken a stand. I will let elected officials know how I stand and what I expect from them. I will also be throwing some financial support behind one or more of the myriad of lawsuits.
I was born and raised here. My wife and I raised our children here. It ain't perfect, but it's my goddamn state and I ain't going anywhere.
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FYI ... if you do a quick search of the banned gun list in the bill, only one Springfield Armory model is named, which few people have (SAR-48). As far as I would be concerned, none of my SA guns would identify as anything remotely close to anything on the list.
 
It’s BS and it’s quite broad and by definition, the way I read it is “any semi auto firearm with a detachable magazine”…so by that the “definition”, then it’s going to apply to ANY carry pistol, not necessarily a SBR or braced pistol that’s included on the ban list.
AND - The since ban law list is automatically amended w/o legislative action, as definitions change or manufacturing alterations are made, the ban process is limitless. If they can ban one firearm. then there’s no limit to which one they may later determine as an assault weapon.

Same applies to the style AR/AK…it’s not necessarily the brand name, it’s the design.
A three, four, five or 10 round magazine for that matter, it doesn't change, fix, it doesn’t circumvent the ban standard or will ever make the AR/AK design compliant.

They put the KT Sub2000 on the list for it folding and handgrip style though there are 10 round capacity mags available which would have otherwise made it compliant.
The new lever action design carbine….forget about it, it has a detachable magazine.
 
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