Talyn
SAINT
Pocket carry for handguns that are small enough to do so.
WHAT'S IN YOUR POCKET? A LOOK AT POCKET CARRY
WHAT'S IN YOUR POCKET? A LOOK AT POCKET CARRY
What's that in your pocket? Does size matter?
- Thread starter Talyn
- Start date
wmg1299
Professional
I'm a fan of pocket-carrying my BUG, or just pocket-carrying when that is all that my wardrobe will allow. One thing I rarely see mentioned as a factor to consider in articles like this is the psychological factor of small guns. My time in law enforcement in a primarily urban area taught me that the overwhelming majority of bad guys know absolutely nothing about guns. Criminals who are just looking for an easy score will flee at the sight of any gun, simply because they aren't looking for a challenge. Unfortunately, I encountered several situations where criminals who seemed to be more concerned with the power/fear aspect of crime were not deterred by small/pocket guns until the moment the gun was fired.
I think many people fail to consider that younger people in today's society only learn to use firearms in a few select ways. People generally learn to use and respect firearms by; (1) being taught to use them by a father or other strong male role model; (2) through training in the military or law enforcement; or (3) when they take a training class because they have decided that a firearm is necessary to protect their family or business. Anyone who has a strong male authority figure in their early life, has the dedication to serve in the armed forces or law enforcement, or cares enough about their family or business to protect them will most likely never engage in violent criminal activity. Most, but not all, violent criminals have no knowledge of guns and will be more deterred by a large-framed .22 LR than they will by a small .45 acp. They seem to think that "big gun = big bullet", despite the fact that trained people know this isn't true.
The moral of the story is that you may have to be more prepared to use a pocket gun after presenting it to an attacker than you would a larger pistol. This is usually not a problem for those of us who have made the decision to carry a weapon, but it is something to keep in mind. This is strictly based on anecdotal evidence gained through my own personal experience, and is just my $.02 and is not meant to be taken as the result of scientific study.
I think many people fail to consider that younger people in today's society only learn to use firearms in a few select ways. People generally learn to use and respect firearms by; (1) being taught to use them by a father or other strong male role model; (2) through training in the military or law enforcement; or (3) when they take a training class because they have decided that a firearm is necessary to protect their family or business. Anyone who has a strong male authority figure in their early life, has the dedication to serve in the armed forces or law enforcement, or cares enough about their family or business to protect them will most likely never engage in violent criminal activity. Most, but not all, violent criminals have no knowledge of guns and will be more deterred by a large-framed .22 LR than they will by a small .45 acp. They seem to think that "big gun = big bullet", despite the fact that trained people know this isn't true.
The moral of the story is that you may have to be more prepared to use a pocket gun after presenting it to an attacker than you would a larger pistol. This is usually not a problem for those of us who have made the decision to carry a weapon, but it is something to keep in mind. This is strictly based on anecdotal evidence gained through my own personal experience, and is just my $.02 and is not meant to be taken as the result of scientific study.
If I pull a gun big or little somebody is going to be shot. The gun is my last resort and I didn't carry it for show. If I have to pull it I'm shooting it before they have time to shoot or harm me.
wmg1299
Professional
I can fully respect your mindset. You'd be amazed how many people I've encountered during my career who just assume that they can scare someone off by showing their gun. I'm not sure if most of these people have the mental fortitude to use their weapon. It might help if we didn't have prominent politicians telling them that firing a shotgun blindly into the air will definitely thwart a violent home-invasion robbery.
HansGruber
Ronin
I pocket carry frequently; either a J-frame, or a Sig P238...and often a .22WMR NAA as BUG, no matter what else I’m using.
I’ll go against the grain here, though, and not say “if it comes out, I’m going to shoot”...because there’ve been several times where I’ve felt that little tingle that things might not be going right—walking across a parking lot at night after a movie, or that middle of the night Walmart run for cough medicine for the bride/kids—and it’s awful nice to just palm that NAA so it is ready for instant action, should it be necessary.
It’s never been necessary, though, thank Crom.
Also...don’t discount the possibility that whatever is happening ends as when you begin your draw—your assailant retreats and/or drops their weapon, etc...don’t wed yourself to the mindset of “if I draw, I MUST shoot”; in the current climate, that could very well turn out very poorly for you. Remember, the vast majority of defensive gun uses end without any shots being fired—the simple fact that the potential victim is not defenseless ends most confrontations.
I’ll go against the grain here, though, and not say “if it comes out, I’m going to shoot”...because there’ve been several times where I’ve felt that little tingle that things might not be going right—walking across a parking lot at night after a movie, or that middle of the night Walmart run for cough medicine for the bride/kids—and it’s awful nice to just palm that NAA so it is ready for instant action, should it be necessary.
It’s never been necessary, though, thank Crom.
Also...don’t discount the possibility that whatever is happening ends as when you begin your draw—your assailant retreats and/or drops their weapon, etc...don’t wed yourself to the mindset of “if I draw, I MUST shoot”; in the current climate, that could very well turn out very poorly for you. Remember, the vast majority of defensive gun uses end without any shots being fired—the simple fact that the potential victim is not defenseless ends most confrontations.
Bassbob
Emissary
Yep. I've had mine in my hand a few times. My rule is if I point it at something I'm ready to pull the trigger.
wmg1299
Professional
I personally would prefer to allow an assailant the chance to retreat after I present my weapon, if at all possible. However, I can fully respect and support the idea of not pulling your gun until you have a valid reason to fear for your life/safety and have made the decision to fire. Carrying a weapon and self-defense are fundamental rights, and the decision on how to exercise a right should be left to the individual in all situations where exercising the right does not endanger innocent people. My only goal is for people to have access to accurate information upon which to base their decisions. I think that whichever side of the fence you are on, it is safe to say that anyone who presents a weapon should be prepared to use it, and should be aware that the act of presenting a weapon may not end the threat without further action.
I wish it were not so, but presenting a firearm in public has become a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. District Attorneys and the public will use the security camera view showing that an assailant had his back slightly turned when you fired to label you a cold-hearted murder who gunned down a fleeing subject. They will not take into account the 1-1.5 seconds it takes for your body to complete the process of drawing and shooting after your brain has made the decision to fire. These same people will argue that presenting your gun before there was a clearly identifiable threat to your life shows that you are a trigger-happy vigilante (as seen in the McCloskey case in St. Louis). In the end, all you can do is act in a way that complies with your morals, and hope that a DA, Grand Jury, or jury of your peers will agree that your decision was reasonable.
I wish it were not so, but presenting a firearm in public has become a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. District Attorneys and the public will use the security camera view showing that an assailant had his back slightly turned when you fired to label you a cold-hearted murder who gunned down a fleeing subject. They will not take into account the 1-1.5 seconds it takes for your body to complete the process of drawing and shooting after your brain has made the decision to fire. These same people will argue that presenting your gun before there was a clearly identifiable threat to your life shows that you are a trigger-happy vigilante (as seen in the McCloskey case in St. Louis). In the end, all you can do is act in a way that complies with your morals, and hope that a DA, Grand Jury, or jury of your peers will agree that your decision was reasonable.
Keystone19250
SAINT
I wear pants with pockets that I can barely get my big hands into so I’m NOT putting a gun a pocket and fight to get the gun out quickly if needed in a defensive situation.
Bassbob
Emissary
chasden
Alpha
Just to say it, pocket pistols just don't have the gravitas (and capacity or reliabiy) that a full sized pistol does when presented. Also, micro/sub compact pistols are hard to grip because they're so damn small.
I've concealed carried larger guns easily, like 1911s, even in the summer. With the right clothes/holsters it's not that hard.
Go big or go home, even concealed. Just my two cents.
I've concealed carried larger guns easily, like 1911s, even in the summer. With the right clothes/holsters it's not that hard.
Go big or go home, even concealed. Just my two cents.
HansGruber
Ronin
Well, the next time I want to create a dramatic moment, I’ll keep that in mind...
Until then, I’ll have a pocket pistol on me, and be able to have my hand on it without being obvious that I can instantly present a weapon...
Lock n' Load
Custom
I pocket carry my M&P Bodyguard 380, my M&P Shield 9, and my Hellcat quite often. The qualifying criteria for me to do so is a good holster and pants with large enough pockets to accommodate the pistols allowing a good grip and a clean draw. When the wardrobe of the day will not allow this, I'll go with a quality IWB or OWB holster with an effective concealing garment. It's most important to train, with whatever you carry in case that moment that we all dread comes, in order to stop the threat efficiently.
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Peglegjoe
Professional
I won't pocket carry. I don't like the gun being unsecured - I much prefer my IWB carry because it locks the gun TO my body. I can feel everything having to do with the gun - if it moves, if it shifts, if it slips, or (God forbid) someone tries to lift it...I know. Immediately. And if I have to draw it...I know EXACTLY where it will be, and EXACTLY what orientation it will be in when I reach for it.
Just my take.
Just my take.
HansGruber
Ronin
Carry in a pocket holster (I like the Sticky brand), and the gun doesn’t move or shift, or fall out at all.
Talyn
SAINT
I agree. I use a DeSantis Nemesis for pocket carry
Lock n' Load
Custom
Depending on the pistol and wardrobe, for pocket carry I use:
1. Desantis Pocket Shot
2. Desantis Super Fly
3. Desantis Nemesis
4. Sticky
5. Clinger
All of these work well for me as far as stability, safety, a clean draw, and keeping dirt or lint out of my pistols. Also, I never carry anything else in the pocket except the holstered pistol. The only caveat is to make sure the pocket is large enough to keep the pistol accessible and always remove the holster for safe re-holstering.
1. Desantis Pocket Shot
2. Desantis Super Fly
3. Desantis Nemesis
4. Sticky
5. Clinger
All of these work well for me as far as stability, safety, a clean draw, and keeping dirt or lint out of my pistols. Also, I never carry anything else in the pocket except the holstered pistol. The only caveat is to make sure the pocket is large enough to keep the pistol accessible and always remove the holster for safe re-holstering.
wmg1299
Professional
I have been very happy with the Sticky Holster products for pocket carry, but did make one change. I carry my Ruger LCP II in the recommended size Sticky Holster (SM-2) and have found it easy to draw from and comfortable to carry. Oddly, I purchased the recommended size for my SA 911 9mm (SM-5) and found that the extra bulk stretched my pocket enough to make it difficult to draw and made the gun print noticeably. I put the 911 in the SM-2 holster, and it drew perfectly with much less printing. The SM-2 covers the 9mm 911's trigger completely and I feel perfectly safe with the gun in that holster (especially since the 911 has an external safety). The only benefit I saw to the SM-5 is that it covered the 911's rear sight completely, if protecting sights from possible pocket-wear is important to the user. I never carry anything else in a pocket with a gun, so I'm not very concerned about any damage to the sights.