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When Size and Performance Meet Concealability

The following is simply one mans opinion and interpretation. Is the EMP, or any other pistol chambered for 9mm, .380, 22 tcm, 38 superc etc a 1911, no, and yes.

How can it be both? Easy, popular demand changes language, naming conventions, nomenclature, and how people envision something when the name is said or read.

The original pistol was designed and created by Browning and Colt around the new. 45 AUTOMATIC COLT PISTOL cartridge to fulfill the military requirement of a. 45 caliber pistol. It was then adopted and named by the military Pistol M1911 then Pistol M1911A1 when the design changed slightly from the original, most notably an arched main spring housing which CHANGED THE NAME. 9mm 1911 designs came later when Colt started producing them. 1911s no, not really.

However over time, in today's manufacturing environment and sales market people consider a 1911 to be a John Browning designed SA pistol of a distinct shape and look. It can have Beavertails or not, not a true 1911 design mind you, barrel bushing or bull barrel, again not original, steel or alloy frame, again not original, and other options.

But, say 1911 and both detractors and fans alike will picture in thier head, caliber notwithstanding, a version of the 1911 and they will all be the same design.

It's evolved and taken the design and fans kicking and screaming along with it.

So, maybe it's not technically correct, arguing and crying when something like the EMP is called a 1911 is rather like bashing your head against a wall, it won't change that the majority of people will look and say... 1911.

Same way, my personal pet peeve, people look at a revolver and say, pistol. Language changes, names are adopted like it or no.
 
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You can call them whatever you want. JMB designed it for .45 and possibly .38 Super? The 9 and 10mm versions may have been built on modified 1911 designs, but they aren’t 1911s and should be given a different designation. I guarantee you if the military had at any point adopted the 9mm “1911” it would t have been designated a 1911.
 
Bassbob said:
You can call them whatever you want. JMB designed it for .45 and possibly .38 Super? The 9 and 10mm versions may have been built on modified 1911 designs, but they aren’t 1911s and should be given a different designation. I guarantee you if the military had at any point adopted the 9mm “1911” it would t have been designated a 1911.
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You are correct, if we get picky and technically correct, they would be named something else. Most modern 45 acp "1911s" would not not called 1911 with thier beavertails, bushingless bull barrels etc. The military named the original upon adoption then changed the name after WWI when they modified the design with most notably the arched mainspring housing and renamed M1911A1. And no, the .38 super was not adopted by the military and designated m1911.
 
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Grayfox said:
From the article:
"When Springfield set out to make the EMP series, they didn’t just take standard 1911 and employ the 9mm cartridge. For improved reliability and performance, the Ronin EMP is designed specifically around the 9mm. Springfield engineers designed 11 proprietary parts for the EMP, including the frame, magazines, firing pin and the slide to name just a few. Where others simply fit the smaller 9mm into a .45-sized pistol, Springfield set out to not necessarily re-design the 1911 as a whole but to specifically tailor it to modern 9mm ammunition available today. The result is a scaled-down 1911 designed specifically for the 9mm round."
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You didn’t expressly say the EMP, you said 1911, that why I replied to your post, and most know the EMP is a scaled down 1911 to fit the 9mm, threads like these always gets testy with members, if I was out of line, my apologies
 
Well if you wanna start splitting hairs............. :rolleyes:
The 1911 is the original military issue pistol in .45acp. Colt has always referred to their civilian sales version as the Government Model. Other makers have their own names and numbers for them. Operator, Range Officer, Ronin or whatever. If its built on the basic 1911 design, its called a 1911.
And yes, Commanders and long slides are considered 1911s because they are simply longer or shorter slides and barrels on the same basic frame. Consider this, the exact same make and model of a revolver can have widely varying barrel lengths.
OTOH, You have guns built on the basic 1911 pattern but slightly different. I own a Browning 1911-22 and a Colt Mustang. Both are very obviously related to the 1911, but they aren't real 1911s. I put the EMP series in this category.
Further, JMHO, real 1911s only come in one caliber- .45acp. Anything else and you fall into that 1911 pattern category.
 
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Annihilator said:
You didn’t expressly say the EMP, you said 1911, that why I replied to your post, and most know the EMP is a scaled down 1911 to fit the 9mm, threads like these always gets testy with members, if I was out of line, my apologies
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No problem. Just spirited discussion. This old Fox has a pretty thick hide. Takes a lot to offend me. ;)
 
youngolddude said:
If a gun is 1911 inspired, but scaled down, is it a true 1911?
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But if you say the gun is inspired by the 1911 aren't you already admitting that it's not a 1911?

I really don't have a dog in this fight, I am not a 1911 guy. I'm never going to be a 1911 guy again.

I almost feel like this pistol takes the same space as a 38 Super except that 9 mm ammunition is much easier to get a hold of than 38 Super ammunition.
 
Bassbob said:
I guarantee you if the military had at any point adopted the 9mm “1911” it would t have been designated a 1911.
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They would have called it a 1911A2 or A3. How many different iterations of the M16 did they go through before they finally started calling the modified CAR15s M4s?
 
MtPatriot said:
As a Lefty, I noticed a distinct lack of an ambi-saftey on this thing. C'mon.
And as an owner of three 1911s: compact, officer's, and Gov't models ALL are chambered the way
John Moses Browning wanted them to be chamber: 45ACP! IMHO a 1911 in 9mm is an insult to the platform!
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I used to believe that a 1911 NOT chambered in 45 acp was not a real 1911 but not anymore. The more people that carry and use the 1911 platform whether it's in 45 acp, 38 super, 9 mm, or 380, the more chance the platform will continue to be a choice.

I shot 1911's as a Marine AFTER Vietnam and I've owned and carried full size and Commander sized 1911s in 45 acp. I owned a Rock Island 1911 in 9 mm and 22 TCM(great firearm). So as some young people say, "It's all good."...:)

I've so mellowed out over the years...I'm starting to warm up to single action only revolvers chambered in other calibers besides 45 Colt..:)
 
I had the privilege of serving for and with GEN Downing, the first USSOC CINC. He deliberately chose the .45 ACP as thje THE duty handgun for all Special Ops troops as it is to this day...either 1911 or H & K doible action, but still in .45 ACP.
 
docdempster said:
I had the privilege of serving for and with GEN Downing, the first USSOC CINC. He deliberately chose the .45 ACP as thje THE duty handgun for all Special Ops troops as it is to this day...either 1911 or H & K doible action, but still in .45 ACP.
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Knew the WAD also on a somewhat personal level. Great guy and a warrior. you and I may have met once in Kuwait or somewhere.
 
I think it’s safe to say the 1911 platform is still as popular as ever. Been carrying one for almost my whole career along with other platforms. While I don’t want to get into caliber debates, I still prefer the .45. I have been in government service for almost 40 years and unfortunately I’ve seen a lot and I am not that enamored with the 9. Yes modern 9mm hollowpoints are wonderful but they are just as wonderful in many calibers……..like the 45! Just my personal preference.
 
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🤔🤔🤔🤔
 
kenpomaniac1958 said:
I used to believe that a 1911 NOT chambered in 45 acp was not a real 1911 but not anymore. The more people that carry and use the 1911 platform whether it's in 45 acp, 38 super, 9 mm, or 380, the more chance the platform will continue to be a choice.

I shot 1911's as a Marine AFTER Vietnam and I've owned and carried full size and Commander sized 1911s in 45 acp. I owned a Rock Island 1911 in 9 mm and 22 TCM(great firearm). So as some young people say, "It's all good."...:)

I've so mellowed out over the years...I'm starting to warm up to single action only revolvers chambered in other calibers besides 45 Colt..:)
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Funny I am also more and more into single action revolvers…..most 44 or 45…..with practice they are formidable for self defense…but more importantly they are jus plain fun to shoot!
 
I have about 1000 rounds through mine. I shot it in some PPC matches. I like the gun. It's a cost effective way to get a 9mm 1911. I would change the following:

I don't care for the 4 inch barrel. It makes the gun muzzle heavy and I never seem to have a take down took or paperclip handy when I want to field strip. I would prefer a commander length gun with normal bushing, barrel.

A mag well is mandatory. Stuffing those single stack, untapered mags into the gun quicky is much easier with a magwell. This is an easy fix. Contact Smith and Alexander.

My biggest complaint is the barrel throat. It is ridiculously short.

I loaded up a coffee can full of my practice loads in anticipation of my EMP getting delivered. I used the same bullet and OAL as my gen 5 Glock recipe. Those guns have a notoriously short throat. Those reloads would not chamber in the EMP. I had to send the barrel off to have it reamed. I have no idea why Springfield throated the barrels like this. I would plunk test all carry ammo if I were using an unmodified, factory barrel for defensive purposes.
 
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