Where do you sit?

[KLGunner]

We all enjoy lovely family dinners at a nice restaurant but how much thought goes into seating placement? Let’s say you and your family go out to Olive Garden. Do you tell them I want a seat facing the door close to an exit? Any time I go into a restaurant I try to make sure I am always in full view of the door and I don’t have my back to a window. As I am walking to my seat I am constantly looking for the exit points and formulating an exit plan for my family. I keep an eye out for the watchers. Gibbs rule always watch the watchers. I always make sure that in the event of someone coming into a restaurant with malicious intent that I’m in a spot where I can appropriately react. Let’s also say this event does happen do you just save your family or do you get as many people out as you can? For me I try to get as many out as possible. So tell me where do you sit? What do you look for? What’s your plans? Who do you save?

 

[RandomHero]

I am at a restaurant right now...lol
Back to the cooks and I'm facing both entrances. Your right on target KLGunner

 

[10mmLife]

I always try to get a seat at an end of the isle with my back to a wall if that available. Like you mentioned also I always survey the area for sketchy looking individuals, a few examples of this could be someone sitting alone and looking shifty, a guy arguing with his girlfriend/wife. Because domestic violence could spill over to include everyone in the vicinity of the bad actor should that person decide to do something stupid. I always assess the exit situation and locations for cover and concealment for my family. I'm not a selfish person and I always have and will assist those in need even if that involves a risk to my life.

Being aware of a few of the things I mentioned only takes a glance and you don't need to be a sentry every time you are out. Just look around and keep your ears open and enjoy dinner.

Below is horrible massacre that happened at the Lubys diner in Texas dating back to 1991 showing how things can get ugly quickly in a crowded restaurant which is worth a read if you haven't heard of this incident.

Luby's shooting - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Nglawe]

Fields of view and avenues of approach...unfortunately we don’t always have the option of “back to the door” but windows and walkways can mitigate danger but seeing blind spots and how to move about within the restaurant. Any position within a restaurant can be defensive of offensive in nature if you take the time to have a plan for you and your family to “shoot, move, and communicate

 

[10mmLife]

We all enjoy lovely family dinners at a nice restaurant but how much thought goes into seating placement? Let’s say you and your family go out to Olive Garden. Do you tell them I want a seat facing the door close to an exit? Any time I go into a restaurant I try to make sure I am always in full view of the door and I don’t have my back to a window. As I am walking to my seat I am constantly looking for the exit points and formulating an exit plan for my family. I keep an eye out for the watchers. Gibbs rule always watch the watchers. I always make sure that in the event of someone coming into a restaurant with malicious intent that I’m in a spot where I can appropriately react. Let’s also say this event does happen do you just save your family or do you get as many people out as you can? For me I try to get as many out as possible. So tell me where do you sit? What do you look for? What’s your plans? Who do you save?

Awesome write up KLGunner!

You have a lot of good points that people can use to make themselves more aware of their surroundings in a place which should be a non threatening environment but can be when you are least expecting it. A lot of people train to defend themselves at the range but miss the opportunity to think about how their accuracy will be affected when people are in panic all around them and also the well being of their families if something happened when they are all together and its not a
1 on 1 shootout.

 

[TSiWRX]

Back to the cooks and I'm facing both entrances.

^ Don't forget about disgruntled staff..... Can they not come from the offices or kitchen?

Or how about that emergency exit that's back behind the service pass?

What does one do with the restroom equation?

And there are so many other possibilities, too:

...examples of this could be someone sitting alone and looking shifty, a guy arguing with his girlfriend/wife. Because domestic violence could spill over to include everyone in the vicinity of the bad actor should that person decide to do something stupid.

Real-life is not a 2+2 equation. There's a lot of variables at-play, and forgoing that seat in the middle of the restaurant only to take up the hard corner right next to an arguing couple or a drunken party may very well not be the best move.

And towards that:

It's not really about the absolute of where one sits: certainly, there are both better and worse, and sometimes you get to decide while others, not.

It's about understanding your advantages and vulnerabilities, wherever you happen to be or, as @Nglawe articulated:

Any position within a restaurant can be defensive of offensive in nature if you take the time to have a plan....

and as @10mmLife said:

...you don't need to be a sentry every time you are out. Just look around and keep your ears open and enjoy dinner.

 

[10mmLife]

^ Don't forget about disgruntled staff..... Can they not come from the offices or kitchen?

Or how about that emergency exit that's back behind the service pass?

What does one do with the restroom equation?

And there are so many other possibilities, too:



Real-life is not a 2+2 equation. There's a lot of variables at-play, and forgoing that seat in the middle of the restaurant only to take up the hard corner right next to an arguing couple or a drunken party may very well not be the best move.

And towards that:

It's not really about the absolute of where one sits: certainly, there are both better and worse, and sometimes you get to decide while others, not.

It's about understanding your advantages and vulnerabilities, wherever you happen to be or, as @Nglawe articulated:



and as @10mmLife said:

Awesome stuff TSiWRX!

 

[KillerFord1977]

Always carry along your Mother in Law.. sit next to her and you have an instant shield to buy you time to engage wherever and whomever you want

 

[10mmLife]

Always carry along your Mother in Law.. sit next to her and you have an instant shield to buy you time to engage wherever and whomever you want

Dude I'm dead!......Rip.......

 

[Ginge]

I usually avoid restaurants all together, but definitely do if they are not gun friendly.
I try to sit in corners. Loose ends make my ass itch.

 

[BET7]

I always try to get a seat at an end of the isle with my back to a wall if that available. Like you mentioned also I always survey the area for sketchy looking individuals, a few examples of this could be someone sitting alone and looking shifty, a guy arguing with his girlfriend/wife. Because domestic violence could spill over to include everyone in the vicinity of the bad actor should that person decide to do something stupid. I always assess the exit situation and locations for cover and concealment for my family. I'm not a selfish person and I always have and will assist those in need even if that involves a risk to my life.

Being aware of a few of the things I mentioned only takes a glance and you don't need to be a sentry every time you are out. Just look around and keep your ears open and enjoy dinner.

Below is horrible massacre that happened at the Lubys diner in Texas dating back to 1991 showing how things can get ugly quickly in a crowded restaurant which is worth a read if you haven't heard of this incident.

Luby's shooting - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

And before that was the San Ysidro Ca. shooting at McDonalds in 1984. I remember both growing up, and agree things can happen quickly and sometimes with little to no warning.

Twenty‑one people are shot to death at McDonald’s | July 18, 1984 | HISTORY

James Oliver Huberty opens fire in a crowded McDonald’s restaurant in San Ysidro, California, killing 21 people and wounding 19 others with several semi‑automatic weapons. Minutes earlier, Huberty had left home, telling his wife, “I’m going hunting…hunting for humans.” Huberty, who had a history...

www.history.com

 

[10mmLife]

And before that was the San Ysidro Ca. shooting at McDonalds in 1984. I remember both growing up, and agree things can happen quickly and sometimes with little to no warning.

Twenty‑one people are shot to death at McDonald’s | July 18, 1984 | HISTORY

James Oliver Huberty opens fire in a crowded McDonald’s restaurant in San Ysidro, California, killing 21 people and wounding 19 others with several semi‑automatic weapons. Minutes earlier, Huberty had left home, telling his wife, “I’m going hunting…hunting for humans.” Huberty, who had a history...

www.history.com

I've read about the Mc Donald's shooting a while back. That was horrific how the guy pulls up to the restaurant and just opens fire on a few kids on their bmx bikes then walks inside and opens up.

 

[BET7]

Well, I have the same mentality as “Wild Bill Hickok‘‘, and always try to sit with my back to the wall, in a corner preferably & watching the doors on who‘s entering/leaving. I check where the exits and kitchen are and would try to defend myself & whomever I was eating with. Unfortunately for “Wild Bill”, the time he couldn’t have his back against the wall while playing cards, he was shot dead in the back. Joe (the Boss) Masseria & Bill Hickok found out the hard way, don‘t play cards in a restaurant

 

[Keystone19250]

We all enjoy lovely family dinners at a nice restaurant but how much thought goes into seating placement? Let’s say you and your family go out to Olive Garden. Do you tell them I want a seat facing the door close to an exit? Any time I go into a restaurant I try to make sure I am always in full view of the door and I don’t have my back to a window. As I am walking to my seat I am constantly looking for the exit points and formulating an exit plan for my family. I keep an eye out for the watchers. Gibbs rule always watch the watchers. I always make sure that in the event of someone coming into a restaurant with malicious intent that I’m in a spot where I can appropriately react. Let’s also say this event does happen do you just save your family or do you get as many people out as you can? For me I try to get as many out as possible. So tell me where do you sit? What do you look for? What’s your plans? Who do you save?

All great points KLGunner and I’m exactly like you. The only thing I can add to that is with my gun on my right hip I sit in a bench seat with my gun to the inside so It can’t be easily seen and if I need to draw it I can keep it concealed until I need to use it.

 

[Mr.W.]

Oftentimes, we must make the best of what's offered. At least it IS always on my mind to do so. My wonderful wife automatically leaves the "constant observer" seat for me. She's also armed, but I'm simply better at remaining observant.

 

[LicensedToPill]

We all enjoy lovely family dinners at a nice restaurant but how much thought goes into seating placement? Let’s say you and your family go out to Olive Garden. Do you tell them I want a seat facing the door close to an exit? Any time I go into a restaurant I try to make sure I am always in full view of the door and I don’t have my back to a window. As I am walking to my seat I am constantly looking for the exit points and formulating an exit plan for my family. I keep an eye out for the watchers. Gibbs rule always watch the watchers. I always make sure that in the event of someone coming into a restaurant with malicious intent that I’m in a spot where I can appropriately react. Let’s also say this event does happen do you just save your family or do you get as many people out as you can? For me I try to get as many out as possible. So tell me where do you sit? What do you look for? What’s your plans? Who do you save?

I always make sure I sit at the table/booth so I can face the entrance. I observe the other entrances and exits. I definitely don’t mull over it the whole time though. I stay aware and ready, but enjoy my time.

 

[jmcd]

In my mind, I will sit on a side facing the door or have my back towards the nearest wall. In reality, I sit wherever she tells me to.

 

[ScottJ]

If the place has a lot of windows, such as a fast food joint, I'm usually scanning the place through the windows before we enter. Once inside any establishment I try to have my back against the wall, and a view of the entrances/exits, and restrooms if possible. If it's a place where they seat you, we'll ask to be seated in a "good" location if possible.

Lots of insight to what everyone prefers inside a restaurant, but how many of you also think about how/where you parked? I will, 99% of the time, back my truck into a parking slot, and will attempt to select a slot that will provide an easy exit out of the parking lot....if possible. Something could occur in the parking lot. These days you just never know.

 

[RandomHero]

^ Don't forget about disgruntled staff..... Can they not come from the offices or kitchen?

Or how about that emergency exit that's back behind the service pass?

What does one do with the restroom equation?

And there are so many other possibilities, too:



Real-life is not a 2+2 equation. There's a lot of variables at-play, and forgoing that seat in the middle of the restaurant only to take up the hard corner right next to an arguing couple or a drunken party may very well not be the best move.

And towards that:

It's not really about the absolute of where one sits: certainly, there are both better and worse, and sometimes you get to decide while others, not.

It's about understanding your advantages and vulnerabilities, wherever you happen to be or, as @Nglawe articulated:



and as @10mmLife said:

Sorry TSiWRX I don't have the blue prints of the building. Most certainly danger can come from any direction. For all I know someone could drop in through the air vents. I'm covering entrance and exits inside the main seating area. That's pretty much the extent I am concerned with. I'm not R2D2 and can't spin my head in circles, however if a crazy cook would come from the kitchen I'm sure I could respond appropriately. There is no way at all times to keep your eyes on all entrances, exit's, emergency exits in the back that you don't have access to. And can't make any guarantees, but would bet I'm not the only on packing heat.

 

[TSiWRX]

^ That's exactly what I'm trying to say - there's no way to account for every contingency, and hypervigilance can well be counterproductive. Similarly, as @jmcd noted in half-jest, we may simply be told where to sit.

So we make do with what we can.

This is why I think statements that are all-encompassing such as "never sit with your back to a door" are too simplistic and often unrealistic. There's sometimes way more than one door in any restaurant.

....I'm not R2D2 and can't spin my head in circles

This brings up an excellent point.

"Super" Dave Harrington's "Iron Cross" drill is often a part of various trainers' evolutions as the class starts to delve deeper into the mechanics of shooting. For those unfamiliar with the drill, this YouTube video, by decado162, takes you through the paces -

And here's the late Paul Gomez spelling it out:

Dave Harrington's Iron Cross Drill

Is it a useful drill? For what? Discuss.

www.ingunowners.com

When I first shot it as a part of a training class, I was - as most newcomers to the drill - baffled at how weird and contrived some of the strings were. It was even more weird when we went through the drill on our knees, and then seated. By the end of the evolution, I was thoroughly puzzled - not to mention both physically as well as mentally exhausted!

Debriefing the drill, it all clicked: the instructor brought up the scenario of being seated in a vehicle or at a restaurant booth, and possibly suffering injuries to the dominant hand.

No, we're certainly not constructed like R2, but we can try!