Which AR mags do you run?

[Tactical-Reviews]

I'll be I've tried just about all of them at one point or another. PROmags is one, they are very inexpensive, I think we picked up a bunch around $7 each. All have fed rounds without a malfunction. We even loaded up 30 rounds and dropped them on plywood and concrete to see if we get a tactical unload. All held their rounds.

Another is Wolf mags I believe. I was picking them up at a local fleet farm for about $14 a mag. Again, they functioned just like the PROmags, no issues.

Rooster Concepts sent me a bunch of these. I don't recall the brand they use, but we did have a lot of fun with them.

 

[Keystone19250]

So here are two different views on the subject which is what I’m talking about.
can’t help but think there many more.

 

[Epeeist]

So here are two different views on the subject which is what I’m talking about.
can’t help but think there many more.

In my opinion and many in the industry the mag thing is urban gun legend propagated by well meaning folks that genuinely believe it. However, here is just a bit of research for you to peruse.

[DEBUNKED] Dispelling The Mag Spring Myth | Gun Carrier

The mag spring myth is just that: a myth! In this article, we're debunking it once and for all. Find out why the mag spring myth isn't a real problem.

blog.gunassociation.org

(Link to definitive article from American Handgunner in first post) https://www.gunandgame.com/threads/will-leaving-my-magazines-loaded-hurt-the-springs.156652/

An Official Journal Of The NRA | How Long Can You Keep Your Magazines Loaded?

I have been trying to get a definitive answer as to the recommended time limit that a magazine could or should be kept loaded.

www.shootingillustrated.com

The bottom line is that Its hard to prove or disprove simply because of the fact that rotating your mags periodically will not hurt anything. I leave my ready mags (in a safe or my go bag and plate carrier) loaded and rotate ammo about every 3-5 years. I do it yearly on my carry guns. When I do I rotate my ammo I disassemble and clean the mags and check for feed lip and follower issues. If it makes you feel better to rotate mags, go for it. Its not going to hurt anything and while you are rotating you can perform routine maintenance.

 

[TSiWRX]

Here’s an off topic question is how many magazines do you keep loaded so they are ready if you need them. This goes for both AR and hand gun mags. I’ve heard many different takes on this question.
since I have multiple magazines for all my weapons I rotate them to let the spring relax.

For me, it's mainly about being ready to go out on a range-day or for classes.

For my handguns, my 6 range/trainng beater 19-round mags for my 4.5-inch XDm9 and the 5 that I have X-Tensions on - plus the one 13-rounder - for my 3.8 compact are loaded more often than not. (see: https://www.thearmorylife.com/forum/threads/xdm-elite-clarification.544/#post-10107)

For my ARs, the previously noted ten L5AWM and ten GenM2 Pmags - all 30-rounders - are also pretty much always loaded.

The other magazines that stay loaded are either mags for my EDCs or for my HD guns. Handguns, each are the resident mag plus a spare. ARs, resident mag plus one spare on the belt, and another three in the safe. The handgun in the emergency bag (https://www.thearmorylife.com/forum/threads/a-field-kit.238/#post-3112) has one resident mag, plus three spares, similar to the other defensive weapons, these are loaded full-time.

The HD ARs I only load to 28 for the stick of 30 because for my daughter, it's much easier for her to successfully accomplish a closed-bolt reload with 28 in the stack instead of the full 30. The other down-loaded weapon is my 870, whose pipe contains one less because of spring life/and certainty-of-chambering considerations (there is enough extra ammo on this gun, though, that I don't fee this to be particularly disadvantageous: a Mesa side-saddle of 6 -heavy, but I also use this accessory to mount my optic- plus another 7 in a butt-stock carrier).

But for how long?
Is there a length of time leaving a mag loaded that it affects the mag spring that could effect reload function?

Towards this.......

No, not in practical terms. Modern mags are designed to stay loaded to capacity. Loading and unloading is what kills mags, a properly made spring under compression will not degrade. Depending on the mag they may shrink a bit, but this “set” in time is already factored into the mag function. Once it takes its “set” to the proper size it will not shrink further without numerous compressed cycles degrading the steel. And we are talking many thousands of compression cycles.

^ This is both my understanding as well as has been my experience, Keystone19250.

I can't even count the times my range/training AR magazines have been cycled. I've yet to have any problems.

As I noted in past threads in this Forum, I did change out the magazines springs in my original six range/training mags for my 4.5-inch beater after they started to become inconsistent in terms of feeding and locking back the slide. You can back-track to my original posts about this in this old M4Carbine.net thread - https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?179626-Springfield-xdm-9mm-mags) - I use the same screen-name there, too.

At that time, I had only that one set of magazines separated out as beaters, and I shared them among my then 3 XDms, then having accumulated, conservatively, about 70,000 live-fire rounds, cumulative between when I started shooting in late 2010 until the time of that post, early 2016. That's somewhere north of 580 cycles of the magazine springs, for each of those six mags, before they really started seeing problems.

And FWIW, I also only infrequently "rotate" my defensive magazines - on about the same schedule as Epeeist. But I do so more for the fact that I want to "shoot out" the ammo that I've "exposed" for that time period and want to refresh with new, rather than for the sake of the magazine's spring, follower, or its feed-lips.

 

[Grifter]

Yes, when a mag is kept fully loaded the springs lose their strength in length and begin to stay compressed. Usually after a year of being compressed, the springs are usually 1/2-1 inch shorter than their original size. This can cause feed issues.
That's why it is good to rotate your mags out that you keep loaded.

This is actually incorrect according to recent studies. The act of compressing and decompressing is what weakens the springs quicker, if and big if, they are good quality.

Leaving your mags loaded will not weaken a good quality spring as fast as the constant load and unloading.

The quality of the spring is the determining factor. I will link a couple of the videos when I get home this evening.

Actually it looks like someone beat me to the punch with the links.

 

[Richtex]

I'm Using Amend2 mags. I had one mag disassemble itself as I was shooting this week causing a jammed round in my AR. That's the first time I had an issue. when we tried to put it back together the bottom plate was very loose and would not lock. The other mags seem to be OK with solid feeling bottom plates. I have 8-30 round 2Amend,1-20 round 2Amend, and 1-30 round SIg mag. All loaded in either 223 or 5.56 with half loaded with hollow point.
I will be testing the other 2Amend mage to see if they are going to hold up.

 

[RandomHero]

This is actually incorrect according to recent studies. The act of compressing and decompressing is what weakens the springs quicker, if and big if, they are good quality.

Leaving your mags loaded will not weaken a good quality spring as fast as the constant load and unloading.

The quality of the spring is the determining factor. I will link a couple of the videos when I get home this evening.

Actually it looks like someone beat me to the punch with the links.

Here is what I know to be a fact based on personal experience with mag springs that are compressed for long periods of time. One of many examples is I had a friend that had double feed issues with his original XD compact 9mm. He stated that he has had it loaded for a few years. But then when he tried shooting the ammo he had in it as he felt it was old ammo, he began getting misfeeds. He then tried new ammo with the same results. I then ordered him in some new mag springs. When I took his mag apart the original spring was an estimated 3/4 inch shorter than the new mag spring. I replaced it with the new mag spring and it ran like a champ.
Though I am not disputing that the use of anything being compressed and released over and over in time will definitely weaken at its bending points such as a magazine spring, I also know that keeping a metal spring compressed over a long period of time will also shorten the life of the springs elasticity, and cause feeding issues.

 

[TSiWRX]

One of many examples is I had a friend that had double feed issues with his original XD compact 9mm.

^ Ah, this is the key.

Early XD/XDm magazines had magazine-spring issues.

One member on XDTalk (socrates007) was even able to get his magazines replaced by SA because of this (https://www.xdtalk.com/threads/xd-m-jamming-issue.447289/page-2).

My suspicion is that the magazines he had dated well before 2015, before the transition to the straight-bottom configuration.

 

[Keystone19250]

In my opinion and many in the industry the mag thing is urban gun legend propagated by well meaning folks that genuinely believe it. However, here is just a bit of research for you to peruse.

[DEBUNKED] Dispelling The Mag Spring Myth | Gun Carrier

The mag spring myth is just that: a myth! In this article, we're debunking it once and for all. Find out why the mag spring myth isn't a real problem.

blog.gunassociation.org

(Link to definitive article from American Handgunner in first post) https://www.gunandgame.com/threads/will-leaving-my-magazines-loaded-hurt-the-springs.156652/

An Official Journal Of The NRA | How Long Can You Keep Your Magazines Loaded?

I have been trying to get a definitive answer as to the recommended time limit that a magazine could or should be kept loaded.

www.shootingillustrated.com

The bottom line is that Its hard to prove or disprove simply because of the fact that rotating your mags periodically will not hurt anything. I leave my ready mags (in a safe or my go bag and plate carrier) loaded and rotate ammo about every 3-5 years. I do it yearly on my carry guns. When I do I rotate my ammo I disassemble and clean the mags and check for feed lip and follower issues. If it makes you feel better to rotate mags, go for it. Its not going to hurt anything and while you are rotating you can perform routine maintenance.

Great article Epeeist. Thank you

 

[xdman]

I prefer Pmags, but have no problem with Hex Mags. I have a bunch of the Colt Aluminum mags new in package the ones I have used didn’t give me fits. Surprisingly the expensive ass HK steel mags were the ones I have been most disappointed with. The feed lips would bend if you looked at them. Could have got 4-5 pmags for the price of one.

 

[xdman]

I know it’s not AR but the US Palm AK mags are a great American made mag.

 

[RandomHero]

This is actually incorrect according to recent studies. The act of compressing and decompressing is what weakens the springs quicker, if and big if, they are good quality.

Leaving your mags loaded will not weaken a good quality spring as fast as the constant load and unloading.

The quality of the spring is the determining factor. I will link a couple of the videos when I get home this evening.

Actually it looks like someone beat me to the punch with the links.

Here is the proof that supports my post and what I believe to be true. These are the mag springs I personally swapped. The shorter one is the mag spring that was compressed for a long period. The longer one was the new mag spring. Hard to argue that the shorter mag spring was not causing the misfeed issues, when the longer mag spring once installed made the pistol run like a champ.
Again I believe that the use of any spring being compressed for a long period of time or being used in cycling will weaken the spring. I don't think there is just one way to exhaust the life of a mag spring. In this case, keeping it compressed for a long period was the issue. Proof is in the photo.

 

[Grifter]

Here is the proof that supports my post and what I believe to be true. These are the mag springs I personally swapped. The shorter one is the mag spring that was compressed for a long period. The longer one was the new mag spring. Hard to argue that the shorter mag spring was not causing the misfeed issues, when the longer mag spring once installed made the pistol run like a champ.
Again I believe that the use of any spring being compressed for a long period of time or being used in cycling will weaken the spring. I don't think there is just one way to exhaust the life of a mag spring. In this case, keeping it compressed for a long period was the issue. Proof is in the photo.

Definitely possible.

To make it completely scientific you would have to compare two factory mag springs, one that was stored for a while loaded versus one that wasn't. To compare a replacement spring versus a used spring would introduce other factors.

Also remember I did say quality was possibly the most important factor. Quality springs are less likely to have issues like that and we all know quality is very subjective.

 

[Keystone19250]

Here is the proof that supports my post and what I believe to be true. These are the mag springs I personally swapped. The shorter one is the mag spring that was compressed for a long period. The longer one was the new mag spring. Hard to argue that the shorter mag spring was not causing the misfeed issues, when the longer mag spring once installed made the pistol run like a champ.
Again I believe that the use of any spring being compressed for a long period of time or being used in cycling will weaken the spring. I don't think there is just one way to exhaust the life of a mag spring. In this case, keeping it compressed for a long period was the issue. Proof is in the photo.

Great information thank you.

 

[Ginge]

Mags dont lose their strength from being stored loaded or unloaded, they get weaker from being used.

I use Pmags with and without the window, Aluminum GI, Lancer AWM and Hera Arms H3T gen 2.
Im digging these Herra mags though. The gen 1 was complete garbage. Whatever they did worked. These feed great in all my rifles, and are slim in the pouch.

I have used Troy battle mags and DD.
Haven't used the Hex mags yet and several others.

For my AKs, it’s either Russian, Bulgarian or Magpul in that order.

Pistols get the factory mag treatment except for my 1911s. They get Colt 8 rd, Checkmate, or Wilson 10s.

 

[Keystone19250]

Great information. Your saying no matter the manufacturer of your 1911 you use mags other then the manufacturer supplied?

 

[Ginge]

Great information. Your saying no matter the manufacturer of your 1911 you use mags other then the manufacturer supplied?

My current manufacturers of 1911s are all Colt. Their 8 rd mags are good to go, as are the checkmate mags with hybrid feed lips. I have some legit milsurp mags from the 80s that were brand new that were good to go as well.

The 19200 from checkmate mags should be gtg.

The Wilson 10s are good that Ive used. I have not used any mags from other manufacturers in my Colts, so I cant say how well they will or will not feed. Many jams in 1911s are from mags.

 

[Ginge]

Heres some feed lips with a GI follower on the right.

 

[TSiWRX]

Here is the proof that supports my post and what I believe to be true. These are the mag springs I personally swapped. The shorter one is the mag spring that was compressed for a long period. The longer one was the new mag spring. Hard to argue that the shorter mag spring was not causing the misfeed issues, when the longer mag spring once installed made the pistol run like a champ.
Again I believe that the use of any spring being compressed for a long period of time or being used in cycling will weaken the spring. I don't think there is just one way to exhaust the life of a mag spring. In this case, keeping it compressed for a long period was the issue. Proof is in the photo.

^ The problem is really the manufacture, where it comes to extended periods of compression. Those tales of fully-loaded WWII-era spring-fed magazines functioning fine? Attributable to better manufacturing and materials in many cases: like those same-era military rations still remaining edible, while Chinese PLA rations from even just years ago saw evidence of contamination.

Once modern magazine springs have taken their initial "set" (this isn't "creep," which, while it does explain things, only happens at physical conditions outside that of the operation of our weapons - and even if "creep" is the issue, the rate at which this occurs is typically much slower than the wear that comes from cycling that spring) they should remain within operational parameters for many, many cycles - i.e. "stress-strain." As long as you don't exceed the fatigue limit of the spring - i.e. by either compressing it farther than it was intended to go or by stretching it (which is sometimes a field-expedient way of getting that mag back into the fight, if for just a cycle or two more; also, the same is permissible, for-instance, in very specific applications, such as that of an AR's selector/safety detent spring).

Give this experiment a try, the next time you buy more than a couple of new mags at the same time:

Take the mags' springs out and measure it immediately. Let this be your baseline.

Now, track it after use, and track it until it fails.

My bet is that you'll see interesting things, like the following ---->

These are from one of my favorite local instructors, Andrew Blubaugh, of Apex Shooting and Tactics:

https://www.facebook.com/ApexShootingTactics/photos/a.533786073330945/1117623031613910

(that the spring is "shorter" is not always the problem, rather, the problem comes in the spring losing its physical properties via use - the longer spring is actually in this case "weaker" - that spring is returning more, but it's not returning it at-strength)

To-wit: does the vehicle which is stored show more or less suspension wear than a vehicle that is driven every day? Yes, the former will sag over time, but the latter - assuming that the struts don't go - will be all kinds of wonky, sooner.

 

[KLGunner]

^ The problem is really the manufacture, where it comes to extended periods of compression. Those tales of fully-loaded WWII-era spring-fed magazines functioning fine? Attributable to better manufacturing and materials in many cases: like those same-era military rations still remaining edible, while Chinese PLA rations from even just years ago saw evidence of contamination.

Once modern magazine springs have taken their initial "set" (this isn't "creep," which, while it does explain things, only happens at physical conditions outside that of the operation of our weapons - and even if "creep" is the issue, the rate at which this occurs is typically much slower than the wear that comes from cycling that spring) they should remain within operational parameters for many, many cycles - i.e. "stress-strain." As long as you don't exceed the fatigue limit of the spring - i.e. by either compressing it farther than it was intended to go or by stretching it (which is sometimes a field-expedient way of getting that mag back into the fight, if for just a cycle or two more; also, the same is permissible, for-instance, in very specific applications, such as that of an AR's selector/safety detent spring).

Give this experiment a try, the next time you buy more than a couple of new mags at the same time:

Take the mags' springs out and measure it immediately. Let this be your baseline.

Now, track it after use, and track it until it fails.

My bet is that you'll see interesting things, like the following ---->

These are from one of my favorite local instructors, Andrew Blubaugh, of Apex Shooting and Tactics:

https://www.facebook.com/ApexShootingTactics/photos/a.533786073330945/1117623031613910

(that the spring is "shorter" is not always the problem, rather, the problem comes in the spring losing its physical properties via use - the longer spring is actually in this case "weaker" - that spring is returning more, but it's not returning it at-strength)

To-wit: does the vehicle which is stored show more or less suspension wear than a vehicle that is driven every day? Yes, the former will sag over time, but the latter - assuming that the struts don't go - will be all kinds of wonky, sooner.

Very good information here definitely gives a different look on things.