Why no Hellcat in .40
- Thread starter Soccersoul
- Start date
deadduck357
Custom
Its not going away.
Frank 2041
Operator
To get 9mm to run close to a 40 it has to be 9mm +P, which costs considerably more than 40. I will still carry a 40, its the perfect balance between power and mag capacity. Funny how the 40 is declining in popularity, while the 40 Magnum (also known as 10mm)..is more popular than ever..?
HansGruber
Ronin
See my earlier comment…but yes, it is.
HansGruber
Ronin
Actually, .40 is 10mm Short (10mm predated .40 by several years).
RandomHero
Custom
Absolutely couldn't be further from the truth. For decades there has been millions of .40 caliber pistols sold. I seriously doubt the .40 is going anywhere anytime soon. With the advances in modern technology and manufacturing the 9mm is no where close to the performance of the .40 caliber. The advances in modern technology and manufacturing does not only apply to the 9mm it applies to all standard calibers including the .40. The .40 out performs the 9mm in all aspects of ballistics where it counts. This is just a fact. As for being more expensive? It has always been more expensive, and the .45ACP is more expensive than the .40. In general when you get something in a larger size it is more expensive. A small soda is cheaper than a medium or large. A 1,200 square foot home is cheaper than a 2,500 square foot home. It's just the way it's always been. Capacity is always lost when you go with a larger caliber. That is no secret. I mean take a look at the 1911 in the traditional .45ACP. It is a seven round pistol. But, myself and many others would say that the 1911 is a accurate pistol and are just fine with the seven round capacity design. Same as the 5.56 and 300 Blackout. Or a caliber higher .308 in a AR10. The higher caliber is always more expensive. The FBI was using 10mm in their academy and had issues with qualifying officers, so they went to the .40 caliber. Meaning there was a high number of people that are law enforcement that had issues with the high powered 10mm. The civilians are no different. Yet today you will hear people say the 10mm is the best and only round to use. But these people are the small majority of the firearms community. Most people can't shoot the 10mm effectively. That is why the FBI went away from it in the first place. The 9mm is cheaper to purchase, and in a ammo shortage where the ammo prices are being price gouged, the route most people take is the 9mm for budgetary reasons. Not because they believe it's better than the 10mm or 45 ACP. So why would it be said that would be the case over the .40?
HansGruber
Ronin
However:
More .40 pistols are disappearing from manufacturers’ lines. .45’s aren’t. 9mm’s aren’t. See the radical culling of Springfield’s XD/XDM/XDS line as a prime example.
At the same time, .40 pistols are NOT being introduced in new lines (Hellcat, P365, VPsk, for starters).
The .40 is falling out of favor, and fast. I predict that in 10 or so years, the only new production .40’s will be Glock 22,23,27’s and S&W M&P’s…and they’ll be limited runs.
Ammo? Sure, you’ll be able to find ammo for our (my?) predictable lifetime; but, as I’ve said…I can get new production .38 S&W or .41 Colt. Doesn’t mean the caliber isn’t dead.
RandomHero
Custom
Funny thing about mentioning the Springfield line of XD's. Springfield Armory still has the .40 available in the XD line.
XD® 3" Sub-Compact .40 SW Handgun - Stainless, Low Capacity - Springfield Armory
www.springfield-armory.com
They have not produced anything in a full size XDM Elite but 9mm. Does that mean the 45ACp is dead too?
Is it possible when they do release the full size elites in more than just a 9mm that it will include the .40?
Alien gear that produce thousands of holsters for guns seem to think the .40 is not dead either.
7 Best Choices Of .40 Cal Pistol
What Would Be The Best .40 Caliber Pistol To Get Started On 10mm Lite? Even though the round has been eclipsed by 9mm, some people get curious and wonder if maybe they should get a .40 cal pistol while the getting is good. It wouldn't be the worst impulse in the world as .40 S&W is a proven...
aliengearholsters.com
Smith and Wesson M7P 2.0, Glock 22 Gen 5 MOS, HK VP40, Glock 22 Gen 5 FS, Beretta PX4, Smith and Wesson SD40, HK USP40, SIG P320 Nitron, Walther PPQ M2, and the Beretta 96A are just a few that are still currently being sold in the .40 caliber.
If the only .40's being produced in the next 10 years or so are limited runs, then that means there will be a limited run on ammo as well. Though the current climate for the .40 is not popular for some, be it budgetary, or other reasons, I would purchase a XDM Elite in a .40 as soon as it was available. But then again, I am a fan of the .40.
HansGruber
Ronin
As far as AlienGear holsters:Funny thing about mentioning the Springfield line of XD's. Springfield Armory still has the .40 available in the XD line.
XD® 3" Sub-Compact .40 SW Handgun - Stainless, Low Capacity - Springfield Armory
They have not produced anything in a full size XDM Elite but 9mm. Does that mean the 45ACp is dead too?
Is it possible when they do release the full size elites in more than just a 9mm that it will include the .40?
Alien gear that produce thousands of holsters for guns seem to think the .40 is not dead either.
7 Best Choices Of .40 Cal Pistol
What Would Be The Best .40 Caliber Pistol To Get Started On 10mm Lite? Even though the round has been eclipsed by 9mm, some people get curious and wonder if maybe they should get a .40 cal pistol while the getting is good. It wouldn't be the worst impulse in the world as .40 S&W is a proven...
Smith and Wesson M7P 2.0, Glock 22 Gen 5 MOS, HK VP40, Glock 22 Gen 5 FS, Beretta PX4, Smith and Wesson SD40, HK USP40, SIG P320 Nitron, Walther PPQ M2, and the Beretta 96A are just a few that are still currently being sold in the .40 caliber.
If the only .40's being produced in the next 10 years or so are limited runs, then that means there will be a limited run on ammo as well. Though the current climate for the .40 is not popular for some, be it budgetary, or other reasons, I would purchase a XDM Elite in a .40 as soon as it was available. But then again, I am a fan of the .40.
You do realize that .40 pistols use the exact same mold as their 9mm counterparts, right? So…any .40 holster is also a 9mm holster, and vice-versa. It’s not like they have to make special .40 holsters…
And .45’s might be on their way out in some lines; it wouldn’t surprise me. However…at least in LE holsters, I haven’t seen as many agencies that issue .45’s ditching them for 9mm’s as I’ve seen agencies that issued .40’s ditching for 9…
In fact, I can’t think of one major agencie that has gone from 9 to .40 in the past ten years…but I can think of several that have gone from .40 to 9…
You can be a fan of a caliber all you want; it doesn’t change the facts.
.40 is falling rapidly out of favor with LE agencies and most shooters. We’re going to see less and less new model .40 handguns, and I’m willing to bet that in the next 20 years or so, we’ll only see one or two lines of .40 handguns still being made.
Keystone19250
SAINT
Here’s the thing, all the comments whether pro or con in this thread are great because everyone has the right to feel like they do. For me I like my 40 caliber handgun because I shoot it well and will continue to carry it even though I want to carry my 10mm more.
Carry, shoot and enjoy what you like.
Carry, shoot and enjoy what you like.
RandomHero
Custom
I agree. However, I was just explaining my viewpoint. HansGruber is well respected by me. And he may be correct. But, it doesn't change my view. The good in this thread is that HansGruber has maintained his view without being disrespectful. So much more respect for him. I enjoy healthy dialog. But in the end I enjoy my .40. I do believe what I've previously posted. Until we run out of .40 ammo and pistols, I will be a believer.....
HansGruber
Ronin
And here’s the thing:
I don’t dislike .40 at all; I own 5 of them, in fact.
But just because I may like or dislike the caliber, doesn’t keep me from reading the writing on the wall.
.40 may not be dead, but…it’s definitely not feeling too good, and it’s doctor is concerned, thinks they should run some more tests…
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Keystone19250
SAINT
And I have no issues with what you believe or feel however I always try to get a second opinion.
See what I did there?
Annihilator
Emissary
And I have no issues with what you believe or feel however I always try to get a second opinion.
See what I did there?
Personally think this hits the nail on the head. Hellcat listed as 1 inch wide grip and 4 inch height. The XD subcompact in 40 sw is 1.2 inch wide and 4.75 inch height. If the hellcat is like my 365, there ain’t any room to play with in that mag. They would have to design a new mag and gun. Likely to get a decent capacity, it would be wider and longer. So getting closer to the same specs of the xd subcompact. It might not be enough of a difference maker. Not to mention the gun would need to be sell enough to be worth the R and D. I think Springfield would make a 40 xds mod 2 before they did this and there isn’t one listed. Which sort of tells me what Springfield sees as the sell-ability of 40 SW. They don’t seem to think it’s worth the investment. They came out with a 10mm xdm elite before a 40 SW. Not to mention the hellcat was specifically designed to be a micro compact 9mm. I doubt they ever introduce a new caliber in it at all.
Not a knock on 40SW just making observations based on springfields product lines is all.
wmg1299
Professional
The first gun that I I learned to shoot was chambered in .40 S&W, and I have some sentimental attachment to the cartridge. IMHO the thing that prevents more guns from being offered in .40 S&W is the current target market. New gun owners and new concealed-carriers are the current cash cows in the firearms market. These particular consumers, if they are interested in semi-autos, are generally looking for light guns in the $500 and under range. Due to the increased pressure from the .40 S&W cartridge, it can be difficult to produce a reliable (in the long-term) polymer semi-auto that is the same size and weight as a 9mm version of the same gun. A new shooter/carrier is more likely to choose the lighter, slimmer 9mm gun that offers more capacity.
I do not think .40 S&W will disappear, but I think that many of the buyers interested in .40 S&W guns are close to my age and experience level. I only need so many entry-level polymer carry guns. At this point in my life, I am more likely to buy a mid-level 1911 chambered in .40, or a classic model that I wanted when I was younger (i.e. poorer), than I am to purchase a new polymer .40 S&W EDC. This is just my guess, and I'm open to input from those with more sales/manufacturing experience than I have.
I do not think .40 S&W will disappear, but I think that many of the buyers interested in .40 S&W guns are close to my age and experience level. I only need so many entry-level polymer carry guns. At this point in my life, I am more likely to buy a mid-level 1911 chambered in .40, or a classic model that I wanted when I was younger (i.e. poorer), than I am to purchase a new polymer .40 S&W EDC. This is just my guess, and I'm open to input from those with more sales/manufacturing experience than I have.