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Why two rifling twists in SA 9mm's?

I have s full size .45,S&W. M.Carbo trigger,upgraded front/rear sights. Shoots lights out. Never thought about twists, etc
Dude; no offense, but that has nothing to do with the topic at hand…just as your post about your buddy carrying a .22 WMR revolver had nothing to do with a thread about shotguns.

While thread drift is inevitable…that’s just too much of a non-sequitor.
 
It was in the title.

SA lists 1/16 in their 9mm 1911, For both 9mm and .45, They list 1/10 in the SA-35 and other 9mm autos. Why 16 in the 9mm and not the SA-35, Echelon etc.

Wilson and Ed Brown also show 1/16 for their 9mm barrels (and .45's)

It just seems odd that SA would use two different rate depending on the platform.
Yea I caught that after the 30 min were up. I was speed reading while multi-tasking here.

My Bad.
 
The rifling twist is determined by the round that will be used and its the proper twist that will stabilize the bullet in flight. To little or too much will cause the bullet to wobble or tumble.
And while the mass of the bullet is a big factor, an even bigger factor is the length of the bullet. So two bullet of the same mass but different bore and length will require different twist to stabilize.

In "most cases" more twist than the minimum needed by a round won't hurt and it will still remain stable, I'm sure to a point.

While the OP didn't ask about AR's, it is a perfect example, the M-16A2 they increased the rifling from 1:16 to 1:7 (from memory, CMIIW). All sorts of rumors came out of that change, none of them true. They changed the rifling because they were adopting new rounds to be used with M-16, that needed greater twist of the rifling. More mass for the same bore, the rounds were longer. They also adopted a tracer round for the M-16 that was much longer than all the other rounds, it was that one round is why they increased the rifling so much, and it had no drawback for the rounds that minimum twists was lower than the 1:7 selected. I think 1:9 is the perfect rifling for the greater mass 5.56 rnds, probably even less, but everyone will attest the 1:7 barrels are just as accurate as any other.

And no, M-16A1's in Vietnam did not have rounds tumbling through the air, you'd never hit a target if that was true. All 5.56's rounds, then and now, since they are heavier in the rear than the pointy front, if they hit flesh with enough velocity, they will swap ends as they decelerate, i.e. the tumble in the body, and if they hit with an even higher velocity, the tumbling will cause them to break up and create much more damage. And if the 5.56 has less velocity it won't tumble or break-up. Thus the accounts of squads with full length barrel M-16's and short barrel M-4's engaging enemy at a distance, the M-16 drop enemy while the M-4's did not. The longer barrel produces more muzzle velocity and at a distance the velocity drops, the longer barrel started with more velocity at the muzzle at had more at the end of the ballistic path. At a certain distance M-16 still had enough velocity for rounds to Tumble when they hit flesh, while the M-4's did not have enough velocity.


But, does that make a difference? While its a neat point, seems to me whether the twist is clockwise or counterclockwise wouldn't make a difference in stabilizing the round during flight?

Are 1911's more accurate in the Southern Hemisphere? ;)
They just tend to shoot to the left more. :whistle:
 
while the Echelon etc are made in Croatia, the SA-35 is listed as made in USA and still has a 1/10 twist. I believe the SA-35 parts are obtained semi finished from Turkey and finish machined and assembled in Genesco, IL. I am assuming the barrels are semi finished and already rifled when they arrive but I do not know this as a fact.
 
while the Echelon etc are made in Croatia, the SA-35 is listed as made in USA and still has a 1/10 twist. I believe the SA-35 parts are obtained semi finished from Turkey and finish machined and assembled in Genesco, IL. I am assuming the barrels are semi finished and already rifled when they arrive but I do not know this as a fact.
Either that, or the original spec for a BHP was 1:10, and they stuck with it.
 
while the Echelon etc are made in Croatia, the SA-35 is listed as made in USA and still has a 1/10 twist. I believe the SA-35 parts are obtained semi finished from Turkey and finish machined and assembled in Genesco, IL. I am assuming the barrels are semi finished and already rifled when they arrive but I do not know this as a fact.
USA import laws are so loosie goosy that its allows a lot of a foreign-made gun to be eventually marked made in USA.

FN/Browning would mark their Hi-Power imported into the US with...Made in Belgium, Assembled in Portugal.

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It would be more legit if SA did the same for the SA-35, considering the Hellion & XD line are properly marked by HS Produkt.
 
I have to wonder, perhaps the variety of ammunition in 9mm Luger has something to do with pistols coming with different rifling twist?

Could it be subsonic 9mm, 147 gr 9mm, suppressed 9mm, NATO or +P needs a different twist? That is why you see some 9MM pistols coming in different twist rates?

If a pistol was designed with using some of the rarer 9mm options, it would have one twist rate that works well for both, or if the pistol was designed to use only the common 9mm ammo, they picked a twist that is more optimal for that?

Like the M-16, they changed the twist because they changed the rounds they were going to use in the new A2 version, and because of one particular round that it might use, they picked an even more aggressive twist than was needed for the other rounds. That is why you see most civilian AR's using 1:9 twist, because that is perfect for all but that one special tracer round used in the military.
 
I have to wonder, perhaps the variety of ammunition in 9mm Luger has something to do with pistols coming with different rifling twist?

Could it be subsonic 9mm, 147 gr 9mm, suppressed 9mm, NATO or +P needs a different twist? That is why you see some 9MM pistols coming in different twist rates?

If a pistol was designed with using some of the rarer 9mm options, it would have one twist rate that works well for both, or if the pistol was designed to use only the common 9mm ammo, they picked a twist that is more optimal for that?

Like the M-16, they changed the twist because they changed the rounds they were going to use in the new A2 version, and because of one particular round that it might use, they picked an even more aggressive twist than was needed for the other rounds. That is why you see most civilian AR's using 1:9 twist, because that is perfect for all but that one special tracer round used in the military.
No, it’s really not…124gr was the original bullet weight for 9mm, and neither 115 or 147gr is that far off to require that radical of a twist change.
 
115 or 147 is going have to be different lengths and it is length that dictates the twist, is it enough to require a different rifling twist, I don't know.
What I can find in some quick searches is just other forums with people relating their own knowledge that could just be opinion. But the claims the 1:10 twist rate was for the 115 grn 9mm, that over stabilization doesn't hurt the other rounds.

Now, something new I learned, that makes a lot of sense, if you over stabilize a bullet that bullet then resists the nose changing attitude as if follows it ballistic path, so the bullet will go off axis and greatly reduce the ballistic co-efficient.

But for pistols, at typical pistol distances, that is not going to make any difference.

So under stabilized bullets are obvious, over stabilized bullets are only bad in the sense of ballistic co-efficient. So for a refile at its max effective range, that might be a case where to much rifle twist is hurting you.
 
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