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Will You Use Your CCW If You Are Attacked?

old but still kicking said:
Glad the author mentioned the inevitable legal aftermath cuz it’s an aspect too often overlooked by us ‘gun toting radicals’ !! Guaranteed you WILL be placed in handcuffs or go to the police station for a ‘formal interview’ that’ll be recorded on video for your grand jury hearing or attempted murder/ unlawful discharge/ public recklessness/ unsafe conduct/ littering (the spent casing) take your pick … Now your mind is reeling from the awful choice you were forced to make, your body being in shock will make your mental decisions waaay harder to safely navigate your recall of what led to that scenario no semi well adjusted person thought would truly happen to them,all while you worry ‘am I going to jail’ &/or ‘how can I live with this now it’s really happened’ & 10,000 similar thoughts ripping through your brain cells. The words that leave your lips before, during, & after will have your future freedom weighed by 12 people who don’t know what you went & are going through. Plus, perhaps the current county DA may be looking make a point to further their future political career AT THE EXPENSE OF YOUR FREEDOM.
Massad Ayoob has phenomenal resources addressing these things and more because he has graciously shared his experiences in many gun mags, books he’s penned, and yes, even articles for Springfield Armory. Before I ran across his words, I naively assumed any right thinking person would see things like I did when I pulled the trigger. You don’t want that wake up call AFTER you’re on the wrong side of a jail cell.
I still carry a firearm ( even in sweatpants or shorts ), ..have pepper spray in my truck, .. have a Leatherman & at least one last ditch defense blade on me always so knowing all the things previously mentioned WILL happen to me & my loving family doesn’t stop me from being willing to engage in the ‘violence of action’ to protect loved ones or myself from being assaulted by younger, stronger, faster, more numerous than little old me non-do-gooders.

My very long winded point being that we responsible gun carriers need to have our eyes open to the reality that society now sees us as aberrant nonconformists who should be made an example of for daring to stand up for right & wrong, with wrong being the refusal to BE a victim. Somehow by not knuckling under to getting beat or threatened, we are wrong in our thinking. Maybe that is kinda extreme sounding but reflect how our media, social & news outlets have consistently vilified legal gun owners & manufacturers covertly & overtly. I’ve yet to see kitchen knife manufacturers & wielding users in the press or legal system. 100% agree that being on the wrong side of 50, I’ve not the capability of scrapping with teenagers/more fit thugs so that switch will flip from zero to 10when I’ve no other good option to escape impending harm.
Just be aware it WILL happen if you ‘sent it’ downrange at your perpetrator/s & take steps to mitigate the cost of not being victimized by ‘bad guys’. Just cuz you’re paranoid… doesn’t mean you’re wrong.
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It’s not limited to Soros prosecutors. If some young punk threatens to beat you up and comes at you, if he is unarmed and you shoot him, many prosecutors will ask why you escalated a fist fight into a gun fight. You really are risking your liberty if you shoot anyone who is unarmed. Your age and size, the assailants age and size, past criminal record, etc. will all come into play.
 
bmarr said:
It’s not limited to Soros prosecutors. If some young punk threatens to beat you up and comes at you, if he is unarmed and you shoot him, many prosecutors will ask why you escalated a fist fight into a gun fight. You really are risking your liberty if you shoot anyone who is unarmed. Your age and size, the assailants age and size, past criminal record, etc. will all come into play.
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Well, I am a small female...and if a big burly thug advances toward me with the intent of beating me to a pulp and robbing me and I can't run, I'll shoot him. Size matters. My life matters.
 
I decided a long time ago That if I were attacked , I would do whatever I had to do to come out on top. Today as I type this , I am old , on oxygen because of COPD , have a knee that doesn't seem to like me anymore , and so I can't run nor can I go toe to toe with anyone.

If I am attacked I will shoot and whatever happens after that , if I am still alive , I will deal with.
 
belladonna said:
Well, I am a small female...and if a big burly thug advances toward me with the intent of beating me to a pulp and robbing me and I can't run, I'll shoot him. Size matters. My life matters.
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True story sis, this works
 
INAL and I didn't even sleep at a Holiday Inn last night.

I'm gonna get this right but I'm going to try.

It's pretty much a given that in all but a few very clear-cut cases, if you shoot somebody in self-defense life as you know it is over.

I have seen a lot of people who overreacted with a gun or who pulled it out just before they would have been Justified and they got hemmed up for it.

I've talked about this before but way back in 2007 I drew a gun on somebody who was road raging on me. I almost got arrested for doing it.

Even the two guys that tried to rob me outside my house. I knew what they were doing but they never actually demanded my wallet. They never actually said "This is a robbery." If I had drawn on them or tried to prone them out and hold them for the cops (which is the stupid thing that I would never do) I'm pretty sure I'm the one that would have got arrested.

I can really only come up with one incident where I would have been incontrovertibly justified in using deadly force. And that was the guy that said he was going to kill me and then pulled out an ax and started towards me.

There was one other incident right before I retired. I was on my way to work one night and there was a guy standing in the middle of the road swinging what I later found out was a trailer hitch. I drove around him. He took a swing at my car but I was too far away for him to connect.

I called 911 on my way to work and gave them the best description and location that I could.

I got to work, I clocked in. I went and did my first two checks and as I pulled up to the third, there was a guy sitting on the steps of the building that I was supposed to be checking.

It was a laundromat, there were some people there from another laundromat who had rented the place after hours so they could do all their contract laundry while their laundromat was being remodeled.

Long story short they told me that the guy was being belligerent and he was already trespassing and as soon as I recognized him my called 911 and updated them with his location.

The guy came off the staircase swinging that trailer hitch and daring me to shoot him.

About that time the cops got to the intersection where we were at and the guy saw them and he left. He started walking South away from the cops.

I got the call screen number for my report and the cops went looking for the guy and I went on with my rounds. About a half hour later I got a call from the police. They told me that they found the guys sitting at a bus stop and that he felt really bad about the whole thing and that he had just had a bad day. They basically did everything they could to talk me out of signing the complaint.

I decided not to push the issue and I asked them to give him a formal trespass notice and went on about my night.

I retired about a week later.

The point that I'm trying to make is that I think it's good that people are a little bit hesitant. I also think it's good when people don't get on the internet and record their intention to blast someone for posterity.

According to Masaad Ayoob checking your social media presence and your internet history for anything that would constitute premeditation is common these days. That's what got the guy in Austin busted.

So I have no problem putting it on the record that I intend to exhaust every non-lethal means of self-defense I have at my disposal before I pull the trigger.
 
bmarr said:
It’s not limited to Soros prosecutors. If some young punk threatens to beat you up and comes at you, if he is unarmed and you shoot him, many prosecutors will ask why you escalated a fist fight into a gun fight. You really are risking your liberty if you shoot anyone who is unarmed. Your age and size, the assailants age and size, past criminal record, etc. will all come into play.
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In response to that I mentioned in another thread that in Connecticut where I lived for 54 years that if someone breaks into your home with a knife and you shoot them you will be prosecuted for escalating the fight in your own home. 😡
 
Nitestik said:
“After his unfortunate mistake……..”
What mistake was that?
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He wrote several articles and later a book, Unrepentant Sinner, in which he acknowledged numerous fatal encounters as part of his law enforcement responsibilities that made him a pariah among many people and really screwed with his income. He made the mistake of stating that he had killed 27 white men but didn't keep track of "wetbacks, n*****s, or "Indians" so the number was far higher. He also acknowledge that he was routinely in at least one gunfight a week while on the job.

As a result many people labeled him a psychopath and shunned him. Guys like Bill Jordan, Elmer Keith, Skeeter Skelton, George Nonte and Jack O'Connor who were his writing contemporaries learned what not to talk about. The three FBI gunfighters also stayed very quiet when it came to discussing body counts. The only one who sometimes talked too much about it publicly was Jim Cirillo but other than some writings and a couple of books his main income came from being a valued instructor at FLETC and later as a firearms consultant.

Without a doubt there are several people who read and sometimes contribute here that have real deal experience, but are unlikely to discuss in graphic detail their shootout experience bonafides.
 
ChanceMcCall said:
He wrote several articles and later a book, Unrepentant Sinner, in which he acknowledged numerous fatal encounters as part of his law enforcement responsibilities that made him a pariah among many people and really screwed with his income. He made the mistake of stating that he had killed 27 white men but didn't keep track of "wetbacks, n*****s, or "Indians" so the number was far higher. He also acknowledge that he was routinely in at least one gunfight a week while on the job.

As a result many people labeled him a psychopath and shunned him. Guys like Bill Jordan, Elmer Keith, Skeeter Skelton, George Nonte and Jack O'Connor who were his writing contemporaries learned what not to talk about. The three FBI gunfighters also stayed very quiet when it came to discussing body counts. The only one who sometimes talked too much about it publicly was Jim Cirillo but other than some writings and a couple of books his main income came from being a valued instructor at FLETC and later as a firearms consultant.

Without a doubt there are several people who read and sometimes contribute here that have real deal experience, but are unlikely to discuss in graphic detail their shootout experience bonafides.
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Thanks. I knew all that about him, but I was thinking you might know something even more specific of which I was unaware. Appreciate the detailed response. Different world now than when all those guys were still making footprints.
 
The Night Rider said:
INAL and I didn't even sleep at a Holiday Inn last night.

I'm gonna get this right but I'm going to try.

It's pretty much a given that in all but a few very clear-cut cases, if you shoot somebody in self-defense life as you know it is over.

I have seen a lot of people who overreacted with a gun or who pulled it out just before they would have been Justified and they got hemmed up for it.

I've talked about this before but way back in 2007 I drew a gun on somebody who was road raging on me. I almost got arrested for doing it.

Even the two guys that tried to rob me outside my house. I knew what they were doing but they never actually demanded my wallet. They never actually said "This is a robbery." If I had drawn on them or tried to prone them out and hold them for the cops (which is the stupid thing that I would never do) I'm pretty sure I'm the one that would have got arrested.

I can really only come up with one incident where I would have been incontrovertibly justified in using deadly force. And that was the guy that said he was going to kill me and then pulled out an ax and started towards me.

There was one other incident right before I retired. I was on my way to work one night and there was a guy standing in the middle of the road swinging what I later found out was a trailer hitch. I drove around him. He took a swing at my car but I was too far away for him to connect.

I called 911 on my way to work and gave them the best description and location that I could.

I got to work, I clocked in. I went and did my first two checks and as I pulled up to the third, there was a guy sitting on the steps of the building that I was supposed to be checking.

It was a laundromat, there were some people there from another laundromat who had rented the place after hours so they could do all their contract laundry while their laundromat was being remodeled.

Long story short they told me that the guy was being belligerent and he was already trespassing and as soon as I recognized him my called 911 and updated them with his location.

The guy came off the staircase swinging that trailer hitch and daring me to shoot him.

About that time the cops got to the intersection where we were at and the guy saw them and he left. He started walking South away from the cops.

I got the call screen number for my report and the cops went looking for the guy and I went on with my rounds. About a half hour later I got a call from the police. They told me that they found the guys sitting at a bus stop and that he felt really bad about the whole thing and that he had just had a bad day. They basically did everything they could to talk me out of signing the complaint.

I decided not to push the issue and I asked them to give him a formal trespass notice and went on about my night.

I retired about a week later.

The point that I'm trying to make is that I think it's good that people are a little bit hesitant. I also think it's good when people don't get on the internet and record their intention to blast someone for posterity.

According to Masaad Ayoob checking your social media presence and your internet history for anything that would constitute premeditation is common these days. That's what got the guy in Austin busted.

So I have no problem putting it on the record that I intend to exhaust every non-lethal means of self-defense I have at my disposal before I pull the trigger.
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Your point is well taken. I am someone who has a hard time inflicting pain on anyone. Heck, I even hated digging splinters out of my son.. that being said, I agree less lethal is best whenever possible. I imagine saturating someone's face with mace or pepper spray would make them wish they had been shot. A lot of it boils down to avoidance. Walk the other way. These days I don't go where things like that happen...but you never know.
 
Nitestik said:
Thanks. I knew all that about him, but I was thinking you might know something even more specific of which I was unaware. Appreciate the detailed response. Different world now than when all those guys were still making footprints.
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It is a long way from the days when the FBI academy taught it was the proper procedure to shoot to kill if someone suspected of a felony tried to flee after being ordered to stop. :oops:

It was also something else when George Nonte brought the group of Shooting Times writers together in Peoria for a week of meetings and socializing and shooting at one of the Peoria ranges. Want some inside knowledge? Charlie was very afraid of one of the other writers and always deferred to him. For that matter so did everyone else. His body count was almost as high as the rest of them put together. Now you just need to figure out who that was. :unsure:
 
Allen said:
I was a police officer for 12 years and was in a couple shootings. The first was a chase and he as shooting at me with a shotgun as we were driving. Crazy. He stopped and I put two through the back window at this head. I thought I hit him but because he disappeared behind the sea. The shotgun flew out the window and the hands came up. He told me he felt the 230 black Talon go though his long hair. I have video and I still can’t see where my first shot missed. But I had no hesitation. And I did things so fast I could let believe it. From putting the car in park, because I could hear that on the video, taking my seat belt off and firing my first shot outside the car was 3.5 seconds. Never could duplicate it. But it shows that repetition in normal speed can carry over to high speed no thought action. My second shooting I lost and nearly or did die in an alley. Had to be resuscitated three times and lost 18 units of blood in short order. So I’ve been on both sides of the fight. I can say that mindset and stress inoculation prior to a fight is essential. I have no PTSD even though I am in excruciating pain everyday from nerve pain. It truly takes little more than what others have said. Willingness. Read and understand what can happen not only if you when the fight but also what happens if you lose which is a good possibility. We are reacting and are behind the curve from the get to. And one more thing. Be ok with life if you lose. You may have life altering injuries because bullets do nasty things. I was a corporal and it was my first week after being promoted. I’m ok with it because no one on my team had to go through this even though they were all there in the alley when my buddy said I died. So they have their demons. But I did my job and kept my team safe. So I’m good. You may have protected your family by taking the bullets. That’s your reason for doing what you did so be good with the outcome. And when the fight comes “you gotta get plumb mad dog mean”. Josie Wales.
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Thank you for being willing to protect ur community for that 12 yrs - can relate to the constant nerve pain that debilitates making you less likely to prevail in a ‘hugging/embrace’ altercation with ill intentioned fools. Sorry you & yours are experiencing that type of life changing symptomology. Glad you prevailed the first time & great point how any of us can end up being severely injured or killed as a result of a bad interaction with clowns.
Thx also for being willing to share your experiences with us.
 
Bassbob said:
It's hard to imagine me resorting to a gun against a single attacker who isn't displaying a gun.
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Look up FBI statistics on personal assaults & the meaning behind the ‘Tueller drill’ or ‘the 21 foot rule’. I’d elaborate but it’d have more impact if you eyeball it for yourself - plus if anyone isn’t willing to or doesn’t, they deserve what they’ll prolly get for failing to think it all the way thru. Just saying ..
 
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