Wives Who Carry

[Bassbob]

I shot a lot of IDPA, and a Tuesday night "mini-IDPA" where there were more woman trying to learn to use the new 9mm gun their husband bought for them. I'll take a hit for this, but woman are wonderfully nice, forgiving creatures but lack that mindset that prevents them from wanting to shoot or hurt someone, even if their life is at risk. Even if your wife/girfriend shoots at paper targets at the range, learning that self defence posture or mindset is simply not coded into most women's DNA. Most would scream (good thing if theres people around), or they would "Lock up" ,mentally or try to escape . Most woman are simply afraid of guns, and if you put one in their purse and they relent and say "OK, Honey, for you I'll carry this thing", they will likely either forget it's there under the stress of the moment, or they will shoot themselves accidently, and worse yet, they will almost guaranteed not be able to hit the threat if they shoot, due to, once again, the adrenelin rush and extreme duress of the moment. So the threat will either run or grab the gun or shoot her if she misses with the gun the threat may be carrying.

While I have witnessed woman in competition that are in the Masters class, this is not the norm.

You will have to impress upon them how many feet someone can cover to reach them in one second. (15 ft)
You will have to keep the gun out of their purse, and have a special womens purse with a carry pouch on the outside that doesn't require opening. In questionable areas, they will walk with their hand in that slot. If they have to take the time to find the pistol in their purse, or in a jacket pocket, draw and aim, they will become a victim.

You will have to teach, (or a pro teach) and practice relentlessly the draw and fire procedure, or draw and aim. This is extremely important, more than firing the weapon accurately. This can easily be done at home, and I guarantee it works. I practiced draw and fire for an hour a day or more.

Most male threats are simply not expecting to see a gun pointed at them by the woman they are about to attack. This in itself will stop most of them. Or they'll make an attempt to get away. (A VERY good thing) Shooting should always be the very last resort.

You will teach them (like our female RO) to YELL LOUDLY, "STOP or I'll shoot!" with the gun at the ready position.
You will teach them that if the assailant turns around at this point, DO NOT FIRE, otherwise, pull the trigger if they move towards her several times. Seriously, our female RO would teach this practice to any new women learning to shoot for defensive reasons. There was a lot of irritating yelling going on at one stage whenever she was there.

The majority aren't built like us. They will have to mentally commit themselves to taking on this life or death mindset, and practice a LOT so if that moment arrives, her mind will AUTOMATICALLY do the right thing. It's muscle memory, not conscious thought, which takes too long under stressful conditions.

If you're willing, have a friend with you at 20 ft away, make sure the gun is unloaded, and recheck again.
Have him say something to her in a menacing tone that will imply he intends to harm her, then charge her and see what happens. And he has to be convincing. Put a knife in his hands. (plastic) Impress upon her how important getting to the Ready position is in 1.0 seconds. OK, 1.5, but that's too long really.

She has to see the results of all this training herself facing a menacing threat or she won't buy into it.

Also, training aside, find a light 9mm auto with a grip she can hold onto. Most women don't have the strong grip to shoot a 9mm defence round several times, or even once, before losing their grip and possibly dropping the gun. Try quite a few until she finds one you can't take out of her hands easily. The gun is not supposed to be "cute", or "Pink", it's supposed to fit her hands. (Yes I've seen husbands allow their wives to buy a gun that looked "cute" and another bought one because it was "Pink", and both could not handle that very small grip size when the gun went off. It scared the crap out of them.

I would definetly not advise a .380. It will not stop a drugged up assailant, or a medium to large male that's going wacko. It will just **** them off.

OK, last words.
Start by making sure she will honestly commit to this for her protection, because it's a lot of training.

Go to a large gunshop with experienced pro's, and find the right gun. Looks are not a factor here. Size and grip fit are. She might have to have an extended mag to increase her grip.

Research online for other women who carry, practice and are experienced and committed to not becoming a victim. Very worthwhile point here.

If the large gunshop does not have a good variety of gun purses for her, go online. There are quite a few very slick and fancy looking purses with that necessary side pocket for their gun on the outside. Once again, find out what other women online are using and where they got them.

And buy her a Lock Box so the kids don't have access at home.

If the hubby is a reloader, load up a 1000 rds of light rounds (called "downloading") They have to be powerful enough to eject the cartridge and force the slide all the way back. It will give her a chance to learn the essentials, then as she gets better and more comfortable, increase the load until you can use standard target rounds.

Pay for an initial instruction course that includes the mental part, the legal side of firing a weapon to defend yourself, instruction on how to handle yourself if you are in danger, and lastly includes actualrange work with her new gun.
Clean the gun with her there to see if she wants to do that herself (many women will want to actually), otherwise, take on that part of this responsibility. Keep the kids away while doing this please.

You cannot over stress safety. Both for herself and others.

I speak from many years of experience shooting next to women, but still, this is all my opinions, and to each there own.
I hope this did not offend anyone, if so, my apologies, it wasn't intended.

Robert

Lastly, get her a squeeze ball to carry and work with to increase the strength of her strong hand.

There's a lot of speculation and generalization in this post.

My wife is 5'3" and maybe 105 lbs soaking wet. She would kill you faster and with less compunction than I would. She also has no issues shooting any of my guns. She didn't like the Super Blackhawk .44 I used to have, but that pistol wasn't real comfortable for anyone to shoot. My daughter has more meat on her bones and isn't nearly as brutal and violent as my wife, but she will run 3" mags all day long at the farm and she owns more handguns than most of the men I know.

 

[jumpinjoe]

Here's a little bit of a side story concerning the training of women in general .... Way back when I was instructing regularly, I offered a special class for just women every few months. This was back in the day before the compact 9' were all the rage. In fact there weren't many compacts back then if any that I can recall right off. The reason I'm telling you this part is because most women back then would come to a class with a left-over hand gun (usually a small revolver but occasionally a full size semi-auto) from when her husband died, or maybe a young professional women newly living by herself, maybe a college girl in a strange town, etc. So any effort at a specific gun for women just didn't really exist. Most came equipped with small revolvers, especially the ones who had just recently bought their own.

But the gist of this story is that no matter how we worked with the ladies, there were always the few who were reluctant, even resistant to shooting at a man's silhouette. Try as we might it was just a hard thing for most women to commit to shooting at even a silhouette, much less a real man if the need were to ever arise. So -------

Once in a stroke of genius, one of my instructors came early to prepare class at the range and brought with him a stack of the old fashioned brown paper grocery bags. When held up to a silhouette target from back then they were pretty close in size of the silhouette from the neck down. We offered the ladies that day an opportunity to shoot at something they might not necessarily be real fond of and a little less intimidating on the line than the black, man shaped silhouette ... on the condition that after they had some fun shooting the grocery bags and realized the silhouettes were nothing more than a different color and representative of something else they could learn to dislike, that of a man who was attempting to assault, they had a ball.

Literally, once most of them got into it they knew exactly where on the man shape they wanted to shoot most. On the brown bags they would literally shoot a mass out of what would be the crotch area on the silhouette, and most, or at least some actually enjoyed it. Then when we'd shift to the silhouette targets, it was nothing for them to double tap the center mass, then shoot the hell out of the crotch. I've never seen so many women at one time seeming to gleefully destroy a man silhouette target.

We made sure they fully understood the difference between the grocery bags, the silhouette and a real threatening assailant. I truly believe to this day that without first letting them shoot out their apprehension of shooting to begin with, they (some, maybe most) would have never been able to shoot at the silhouettes. Now I can't swear that any of them would even be able to pull down on an attacker if it came to it, but neither can any other instructor using any other method. But I firmly believe that the majority of them will relate back to those old brown grocery bags, and through them know where to place any shots they may need to get off.

 

[somorris]

Lots of advice here. A couple things to keep in mind:

1. There actually are (or were) a few women on this site (not sure how many), so keep that in mind when talking about them; and
2. Women are buying quite a few handguns and seeking training in what I think are record numbers. I suspect quite a few of those may not have men in their lives who are mentoring them, or if they do, the men may not be cohabitating, etc. with them.

We need to remember to be courteous and not belittle the fairer sex. I suspect a lot of folks would be surprised at how violent a woman can get under the right conditions.

 

[Bassbob]

There’s at least one woman here who probably would put us, or me at least, to shame. @Caro

As far as new shooters go the popular consensus is they make much better students. Less testosterone, more inclined to realize they don’t know everything.

 

[Caro]

There’s at least one woman here who probably would put us, or me at least, to shame. @Caro

As far as new shooters go the popular consensus is they make much better students. Less testosterone, more inclined to realize they don’t know everything.

Well thank you...

I’m a decent shot, but I use unconventional methods (much like everything else in my life, lol). I am always looking for ways to improve.

 

[OkiePewPew]

"Most women are afraid of guns"

"Most male threats are simply not expecting to see a gun pointed at them by the woman they are about to attack. This in itself will stop most of them."

That pretty much sums up your post of broad and spurious generalizations. Geez, where do I start...I very much wanted to follow @BobM's lead and just pass, but I just can't.

Some women are like that, maybe even many. But to present that characterization as some sort of overwhelming fact is beyond stereotyping and is one of the foundational problems in shooting sports; testosterone filled men assuming facts about 50% of the population as of one, maybe two, mindsets. Your post reads like an Alex Jones conspiracy theory, broad and dubious facts sprinkled with solid reasoning to give the whole some sense of authority.

We barely notice confident women on the range because they are just "one of the guys" out shooting. We strongly notice inexperienced and timid women because they're exactly that, inexperienced (and often because of their overbearing and inexperienced male partners trying to be a big man and teach them). We also notice tons of guys on the range that we instinctually stay away from because they're often either a danger to themselves and/or others. But we don't stereotype male new shooters as inept or scared even though the percentages work out about the same.

Women ARE different and they need to be welcomed into the firearms world as equals, not some weird subset of shooter that needs to be coddled. @jumpinjoe's post makes a ton more sense, addresses the evolutionary differences that -some- women maintain, and points to training changes similar to those that have already been bred into the male side of shooting sports and are now considered routine.

 

[Caro]

I do find it interesting how some women are reluctant to shoot at a man shaped target... but it’s also interesting how, many times, men struggle to shoot at a female threat. There aren’t many female silhouette targets available but I’d bet that it would be a cool experiment. Randomly pop up some bad guy targets then throw a female shaped target in there and observe the timing of hits.

Personally, I think therapy is a good idea for any individual who struggles to stop a threat based on that threat’s gender. There are some real deep seated issues at play there that’s for sure.

As for me, I don’t have a problem with taking down a threat. I will take down Disney characters if they threaten my life. I love Disney but I love myself more than I love them. Male? Female? Mouse? Cinderella? Bashful dwarf? It doesn’t matter to me in the slightest. Pew pew pew.

I was picking up a little gun from the gunsmith today and he got a kick out of my t-shirt. It simply says ‘F&@% around. Find out’.

Aside from all of that, I, like most women, am very nice, sweet, soft, quiet, wonderful, sugar and spice and everything nice.

But...

‘F&@% around. Find out’.

 

[OkiePewPew]

I do find it interesting how some women are reluctant to shoot at a man shaped target... but it’s also interesting how, many times, men struggle to shoot at a female threat. There aren’t many female silhouette targets available but I’d bet that it would be a cool experiment. Randomly pop up some bad guy targets then throw a female shaped target in there and observe the timing of hits.

Personally, I think therapy is a good idea for any individual who struggles to stop a threat based on that threat’s gender. There are some real deep seated issues at play there that’s for sure.

As for me, I don’t have a problem with taking down a threat. I will take down Disney characters if they threaten my life. I love Disney but I love myself more than I love them. Male? Female? Mouse? Cinderella? Bashful dwarf? It doesn’t matter to me in the slightest. Pew pew pew.

I was picking up a little gun from the gunsmith today and he got a kick out of my t-shirt. It simply says ‘F&@% around. Find out’.

Aside from all of that, I, like most women, am very nice, sweet, soft, quiet, wonderful, sugar and spice and everything nice.

But...

‘F&@% around. Find out’.

I haven't been going to our local "tac-prac"'s lately (bad Okie) but the gentleman who runs it really likes to put female badguys into the mix. In the weekly points emails he enthusiastically points out how the female targets get consistently less rounds in scoreable zones and lowers the entire league's scores.

 

[KillerFord1977]

I do find it interesting how some women are reluctant to shoot at a man shaped target... but it’s also interesting how, many times, men struggle to shoot at a female threat. There aren’t many female silhouette targets available but I’d bet that it would be a cool experiment. Randomly pop up some bad guy targets then throw a female shaped target in there and observe the timing of hits.

Personally, I think therapy is a good idea for any individual who struggles to stop a threat based on that threat’s gender. There are some real deep seated issues at play there that’s for sure.

As for me, I don’t have a problem with taking down a threat. I will take down Disney characters if they threaten my life. I love Disney but I love myself more than I love them. Male? Female? Mouse? Cinderella? Bashful dwarf? It doesn’t matter to me in the slightest. Pew pew pew.

I was picking up a little gun from the gunsmith today and he got a kick out of my t-shirt. It simply says ‘F&@% around. Find out’.

Aside from all of that, I, like most women, am very nice, sweet, soft, quiet, wonderful, sugar and spice and everything nice.

But...

‘F&@% around. Find out’.

Bet a recently scorned Divorcée with a nasty Ex wife would take out that target in a nanosecond and prob do a mag dump

 

[Bassbob]

It doesn't surprise me I guess that many criminals underestimate women. Criminals are generally dumbasses. I know better. I would be very afraid of my wife if she had a mind to hurt or kill me. And I promise you I'm not just saying that in jest or because she's my wife. She accuses me of being mean. Brutal, lacking compassion etc.. but I am not too far from a misanthrope. And the few fights she's seen me in probably shocked her a little. My wife is a people person. Quick to help them. Even strangers. Sugar and spice and everything nice. I've seen her fight too and she scares me.

105 lbs. Hotter than a microwave oven and would slit your throat in a heartbeat if you tried to hurt her or someone else.

 

[Caro]

Bet a recently scorned Divorcée with a nasty Ex wife would take out that target in a nanosecond and prob do a mag dump

Especially if the target looked like the ex-wife...

 

[jumpinjoe]

I do find it interesting how some women are reluctant to shoot at a man shaped target... but it’s also interesting how, many times, men struggle to shoot at a female threat. There aren’t many female silhouette targets available but I’d bet that it would be a cool experiment. Randomly pop up some bad guy targets then throw a female shaped target in there and observe the timing of hits.

Personally, I think therapy is a good idea for any individual who struggles to stop a threat based on that threat’s gender. There are some real deep seated issues at play there that’s for sure.

As for me, I don’t have a problem with taking down a threat. I will take down Disney characters if they threaten my life. I love Disney but I love myself more than I love them. Male? Female? Mouse? Cinderella? Bashful dwarf? It doesn’t matter to me in the slightest. Pew pew pew.

I was picking up a little gun from the gunsmith today and he got a kick out of my t-shirt. It simply says ‘F&@% around. Find out’.

Aside from all of that, I, like most women, am very nice, sweet, soft, quiet, wonderful, sugar and spice and everything nice.

But...

‘F&@% around. Find out’.

Caro, I think I can add a touch of answers to those questions. I think the reason for some/most women find it hard to shoot at a man silhouette is a matter of the caring and nurturing instilled into them from birth. As much as it is the 'Man' silhouette, it's representative of a human that she has learned to 'not' hurt/harm' but to nurture and care for. Now certainly that doesn't include all women, just the majority. For most any woman to intentionally harm or hurt another human requires much mental training (IE: LEO) to overcome that. And when women do harm/hurt any human, especially men it's more often due to some uncontrollable emotional or severe mental issues that cause it. Now I'll explain why I think there's something to that .......

Men on the other hand struggle to harm, or allow harm to come to women (IE: struggle to shoot at a woman silhouette) because from birth they are taught to be the protector of and provider for women. It requires much training of both the physical and mental sides of males to intentionally harm a woman, like in LEO work. Even in a self defense situation, men must overcome many years of ingrained training to protect and provide for women. And when it happens it's generally done either though training .... or the same uncontrollable emotional and/or mental issues as mentioned above.

I don't see this as either good or bad for either gender, just different. I know deep inside that without our providing for those ladies way back when to get past the initial uneasiness of the guns and shooting in general, they (most) never would have gotten to a point to even attempt to shoot at a man silhouette. And I'm convinced some of them were far better equipped to handle any bad situation that should arise after they left than before they arrived. We need to remember the women I referred to in my earlier post were women born in the 50's and 60's when it was expected the "little woman" would be home with her hair fixed and makeup on, supper on the table and a smile on her face.

I truly believe it was much more the expectations of the times than it is today. And the "deep seated issues" you mention would be completely explained by that very point. They were 'deep seated' by and through many years and generations of learning 'Man... the protector and provider', and 'Woman... the nurturer and caregiver'. Obviously times and mindsets have changed today for the better in most instances.

I have one great example of just how ingrained some of that training was in people back then, and even still in some today .... I'm talking in general terms of those born in the 50's, 60's, and even into the 70's-80's in some cases. I was racing stock cars many years ago around some local SE bullring tracks on most weekend nights. One night in particular at a little track in Northern Florida, during a hotly contested feature race and for the season track championship, a female driver (very few back then) spun out directly in front of the reining track champion who was about to lap/pass her. He was running probably close to 70-80 mph and would have T-boned her right in the driver's door. Instead, he swerved hard to the right and head-on into a solid concrete wall. Not only endangering himself by driving head-on into a concrete barrier, but throwing away any chance of a repeat championship. You see, had he hit her car in the driver's door, it would likely have caused her to be hurt, but it would have also likely allowed him to continue to finish the last few laps of that race for a second championship. Instead he chose the more dangerous route for himself knowing it would cause a DNF for him for the night and a loss of the championship.

Later at the care center, some of his crew asked him "what the hell were you thinking?" His answer was just this simple and without any thought ..... Man, she was a woman ... I couldn't hit a woman. That was the quick answer, the real answer was that due to all the years of his training to be the protector/provider for the fairer sex, it just came natural for him to turn that car away from hitting her. It was almost reactive without him even thinking about it. He later acknowledged he never even thought about the options or the consequences..... he just knew to do it! I'm convinced that most of those ladies I mentioned earlier were in that same mindset. All their lives had been taught to not hurt/harm another human, but to care for and nurture.

I admire your description of yourself and your mindset, and I also would guess you're at least a couple generations away from those I spoke of. Today's women in general, at least most of them in my limited experience, are more independent and far more sure of themselves than those from the 50's-80's. And that's a good thing!

Hope I've not written anything here or the earlier post that would be offensive to women, and if so I apologize here and now. That was never my intention.

 

[jumpinjoe]

It doesn't surprise me I guess that many criminals underestimate women. Criminals are generally dumbasses. I know better. I would be very afraid of my wife if she had a mind to hurt or kill me. And I promise you I'm not just saying that in jest or because she's my wife. She accuses me of being mean. Brutal, lacking compassion etc.. but I am not too far from a misanthrope. And the few fights she's seen me in probably shocked her a little. My wife is a people person. Quick to help them. Even strangers. Sugar and spice and everything nice. I've seen her fight too and she scares me.

105 lbs. Hotter than a microwave oven and would slit your throat in a heartbeat if you tried to hurt her or someone else.

She does seem to have a hint of an evil gleam in her eye! But a very pretty smile.

I'm pretty sure you're a lucky man!

 

[Caro]

Caro, I think I can add a touch of answers to those questions. I think the reason for some/most women find it hard to shoot at a man silhouette is a matter of the caring and nurturing instilled into them from birth. As much as it is the 'Man' silhouette, it's representative of a human that she has learned to 'not' hurt/harm' but to nurture and care for. Now certainly that doesn't include all women, just the majority. For most any woman to intentionally harm or hurt another human requires much mental training (IE: LEO) to overcome that. And when women do harm/hurt any human, especially men it's more often due to some uncontrollable emotional or severe mental issues that cause it. Now I'll explain why I think there's something to that .......

Men on the other hand struggle to harm, or allow harm to come to women (IE: struggle to shoot at a woman silhouette) because from birth they are taught to be the protector of and provider for women. It requires much training of both the physical and mental sides of males to intentionally harm a woman, like in LEO work. Even in a self defense situation, men must overcome many years of ingrained training to protect and provide for women. And when it happens it's generally done either though training .... or the same uncontrollable emotional and/or mental issues as mentioned above.

I don't see this as either good or bad for either gender, just different. I know deep inside that without our providing for those ladies way back when to get past the initial uneasiness of the guns and shooting in general, they (most) never would have gotten to a point to even attempt to shoot at a man silhouette. And I'm convinced some of them were far better equipped to handle any bad situation that should arise after they left than before they arrived. We need to remember the women I referred to in my earlier post were women born in the 50's and 60's when it was expected the "little woman" would be home with her hair fixed and makeup on, supper on the table and a smile on her face.

I truly believe it was much more the expectations of the times than it is today. And the "deep seated issues" you mention would be completely explained by that very point. They were 'deep seated' by and through many years and generations of learning 'Man... the protector and provider', and 'Woman... the nurturer and caregiver'. Obviously times and mindsets have changed today for the better in most instances.

I have one great example of just how ingrained some of that training was in people back then, and even still in some today .... I'm talking in general terms of those born in the 50's, 60's, and even into the 70's-80's in some cases. I was racing stock cars many years ago around some local SE bullring tracks on most weekend nights. One night in particular at a little track in Northern Florida, during a hotly contested feature race and for the season track championship, a female driver (very few back then) spun out directly in front of the reining track champion who was about to lap/pass her. He was running probably close to 70-80 mph and would have T-boned her right in the driver's door. Instead, he swerved hard to the right and head-on into a solid concrete wall. Not only endangering himself by driving head-on into a concrete barrier, but throwing away any chance of a repeat championship. You see, had he hit her car in the driver's door, it would likely have caused her to be hurt, but it would have also likely allowed him to continue to finish the last few laps of that race for a second championship. Instead he chose the more dangerous route for himself knowing it would cause a DNF for him for the night and a loss of the championship.

Later at the care center, some of his crew asked him "what the hell were you thinking?" His answer was just this simple and without any thought ..... Man, she was a woman ... I couldn't hit a woman. That was the quick answer, the real answer was that due to all the years of his training to be the protector/provider for the fairer sex, it just came natural for him to turn that car away from hitting her. It was almost reactive without him even thinking about it. He later acknowledged he never even thought about the options or the consequences..... he just knew to do it! I'm convinced that most of those ladies I mentioned earlier were in that same mindset. All their lives had been taught to not hurt/harm another human, but to care for and nurture.

I admire your description of yourself and your mindset, and I also would guess you're at least a couple generations away from those I spoke of. Today's women in general, at least most of them in my limited experience, are more independent and far more sure of themselves than those from the 50's-80's. And that's a good thing!

Hope I've not written anything here or the earlier post that would be offensive to women, and if so I apologize here and now. That was never my intention.

I think it depends on how a person is raised. There are many elderly women in my family (my parents and their siblings are in their 80s) and all of them have always been independent. Perhaps that has much to do with how I ended up with similar personality traits. My great grandmother, for example, once stabbed a man square in the chest (while she was cutting up a hog for dinner, lol) because he was threatening her children... and she showed no remorse for ‘stopping’ him.

We are living in a strange time nowadays where many men aren’t brought up with a purpose to protect and women aren’t necessarily brought up with an ingrained desire to nurture. I don’t necessarily believe we are all born with those traits... instead, I think certain traits are encouraged (or not encouraged) within our environment. At least that’s the conclusion I came to during my graduate studies on a related topic.

When I teach women, I find that the ones who have issues with shooting a man, are the ones who have been abused in some manner. I’ve also found that a pistol class or two doesn’t resolve that situation.

 

[jumpinjoe]

I think it depends on how a person is raised. " ......................................"

I think that's the key phrase right there. It stands to reason if your grandmother was a strong woman, and your mom was a strong woman, that it ran in your family probably more than most others for the women to be strong and independent. But those from the 50's-80's in general were from the other mindset I think. Sure, I can think of a few women from back then who were far more independent than most others, but by and large the majority is what I was talking about.

And today, I couldn't agree more with your last statement IE: "When I teach women, I find that the ones who have issues with shooting a man, are the ones who have been abused in some manner. ........" I think that same thing held true even way back then, the only difference being that far fewer women would admit it (abuse) back then.

 

[Caro]

I think that's the key phrase right there. It stands to reason if your grandmother was a strong woman, and your mom was a strong woman, that it ran in your family probably more than most others for the women to be strong and independent. But those from the 50's-80's in general were from the other mindset I think. Sure, I can think of a few women from back then who were far more independent than most others, but by and large the majority is what I was talking about.

And today, I couldn't agree more with your last statement IE: "When I teach women, I find that the ones who have issues with shooting a man, are the ones who have been abused in some manner. ........" I think that same thing held true even way back then, the only difference being that far fewer women would admit it (abuse) back then.

Yes. It’s a tricky thing because we find many of the women who seek training today are from that same 50s - 80s group. It’s also interesting to look at demographics/locations. I think that plays a HUGE part in all of this.
For instance, women who are minorities in the South typically have a different set of experiences than women in the Midwest. The experiences sometimes force a certain kind of independence.

It seems that today’s circumstances are forcing those who are uncomfortable with firearms to tiptoe into the arena because reality is making them more uncomfortable than their uncomfortable feelings about using firearms.

I’m from the 70s by the way. And that’s as many clues as I’m giving away about my age...

I just wish that there were more resources for safe gun ownership training. Today the news described how a 25 year old woman was inadvertently shot and killed by one of her 5 children. Police believe that one of the children found the gun in her purse and ‘somehow’ the gun discharged.

 

[BobM]

I think it depends on how a person is raised. There are many elderly women in my family (my parents and their siblings are in their 80s) and all of them have always been independent. Perhaps that has much to do with how I ended up with similar personality traits. My great grandmother, for example, once stabbed a man square in the chest (while she was cutting up a hog for dinner, lol) because he was threatening her children... and she showed no remorse for ‘stopping’ him.

We are living in a strange time nowadays where many men aren’t brought up with a purpose to protect and women aren’t necessarily brought up with an ingrained desire to nurture. I don’t necessarily believe we are all born with those traits... instead, I think certain traits are encouraged (or not encouraged) within our environment. At least that’s the conclusion I came to during my graduate studies on a related topic.

When I teach women, I find that the ones who have issues with shooting a man, are the ones who have been abused in some manner. I’ve also found that a pistol class or two doesn’t resolve that situation.

My family was pretty much the same concerning older women. Gramp's is cool, but don't tick off grandma or mom or you'll be wearing a frying pan instead of a ball cap? Thinking I may understand that one pretty much in someways?

Completely why so much is happening to the contrary now is another thing though? Thinking some is forced equal rights were there was sometimes no wrong in the 1st place? Not suggesting all was right or wrong, just that two wrongs don't ever make a right. Say the work place for example? Someone who was schooled, trained and knows how to do the work is bypassed while someone else who doesn't know the work is hired because of some sort of affirmative action or warped quota. I understand the intentions were likely good ones, but it sometimes sends warped messages like no child left behind did? Results: It can screw up and skew peoples logic, desire, intention and other attributes like gender, race or whatever all over the place. Personally thinking many people are intentionally confused sometimes like some whacked out college science experiment?

 

[jumpinjoe]

You probably see more women seeking training from that demographic than I did back then. For so many back then it just wasn't 'lady like'. Unlike my wife, who when she married me became interested in guns and shooting to the point that in the mid 80's she was a state champion in 'Hunter Pistol' silhouette in her class. I was pretty danged proud of her too.

So sad about the 25 yr old who was shot possibly by one of her own children. I'm going to say I'm thinking there just might be more to this than meets the eye. If she had 5 kids by the age of 25, it's likely none of them were more than 6-8-9 yrs old at most

Now surely any child who can sit up by themselves can inadvertently fire a handgun. It's just not that easy for a youngster with that small hands to do. Especially to work a DA revolver, or to cock a SA revolver. If the gun was a semi-auto like a 1911, the safety would be pretty hard for a young child to maneuver and fire, especially with a grip safety.

I hope to heaven that it wasn't one of her kids for the kid's sake. And if it wasn't, I hope to hell they find the culprit quickly.

 

[BobM]

Yes. It’s a tricky thing because we find many of the women who seek training today are from that same 50s - 80s group. It’s also interesting to look at demographics/locations. I think that plays a HUGE part in all of this.
For instance, women who are minorities in the South typically have a different set of experiences than women in the Midwest. The experiences sometimes force a certain kind of independence.

It seems that today’s circumstances are forcing those who are uncomfortable with firearms to tiptoe into the arena because reality is making them more uncomfortable than their uncomfortable feelings about using firearms.

I’m from the 70s by the way. And that’s as many clues as I’m giving away about my age...

I just wish that there were more resources for safe gun ownership training. Today the news described how a 25 year old woman was inadvertently shot and killed by one of her 5 children. Police believe that one of the children found the gun in her purse and ‘somehow’ the gun discharged.

Thinking demographics definitely plays a role. I grew up, possibly, way down south and way up north and over decades in both areas. There are/were definite differences in how people are and were treated. Trying best to be diplomatic, down south you knew where you stood. It was clear and politely stated or posted most of the time. Up north same things were present just buried, swept away into a corner or ignored. If anyone spoke up, they were in big time trouble.

 

[BobM]

You probably see more women seeking training from that demographic than I did back then. For so many back then it just wasn't 'lady like'. Unlike my wife, who when she married me became interested in guns and shooting to the point that in the mid 80's she was a state champion in 'Hunter Pistol' silhouette in her class. I was pretty danged proud of her too.

So sad about the 25 yr old who was shot possibly by one of her own children. I'm going to say I'm thinking there just might be more to this than meets the eye. If she had 5 kids by the age of 25, it's likely none of them were more than 6-8-9 yrs old at most

Now surely any child who can sit up by themselves can inadvertently fire a handgun. It's just not that easy for a youngster with that small hands to do. Especially to work a DA revolver, or to cock a SA revolver. If the gun was a semi-auto like a 1911, the safety would be pretty hard for a young child to maneuver and fire, especially with a grip safety.

I hope to heaven that it wasn't one of her kids for the kid's sake. And if it wasn't, I hope to hell they find the culprit quickly.

That's really very cool of your wife! You had good reason to be proud of her! Sounds like a good friend and partner too! Am also very glad more women feel comfortable enough to get into shooting sports and self protection now days! Hopefully, it's not all because they may be more afraid?