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Would or should you use .22LR for personal defense ammo?

Works for me.
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Recusant said:
I have a Bersa Model 23 that's a PPK clone in 22 cal. This new round might work well enough to consider carrying it, especially during the summer months. What do y'all think.

Federal Punch 22LR Personal Defense — Yes, 22LR Self Defense Ammo (gunmagwarehouse.com)
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There is an old saying that goes something like this:
Never use a small caliber gun on a large caliber man.
Drugs can make even a skinny little guy incredibly strong.
Look up Moro warriors.

A better question is: What is the most powerful handgun I can shoot well and carry easily?

Save the 22s for small game, teaching new shooters and plinking fun.

PS I have a Ruger Mark 1, a Mark 3 and a Wrangler as well as a few rifles chambered in 22. There is a reason why Africa has rules about minimum caliber firearms when hunting there: the game is tough.
People with determination can be very tough too.
 
Heavy Industries said:
IMO opinion I would not simply because no matter how reliable the pistol is there is always the rimfire condition that you cant do anything to change.
Rimfires have duds across all ammo brands. Its the nature of the beast. Everyone knows that or should.
That effectively eliminates it from any and all SD duty for me.
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I've heard and repeated that mantra myself for decades. Then, looking at my own 22LR experience with a Ruger Mark II, I've probably put something like 10,000 rounds through that pistol since 1990, either with paper targets or outdoors plinking at cans on a fence or something. I recently had my first two ammo failures. Ever. Both were stovepiped rounds that failed to fully eject and chamber the next round. Guess what I was shooting at the time? 40 to 50 year old 22LR ammo purchased by my father in law at an Otasco store some time in the 1970's! That's a pretty low failure rate - maybe I've just been lucky, as I don't remember ever having duds before that, and most of the 22LR ammo I buy is bulk boxes of 550 or more rounds.

My oldest daughter shot that same Ruger Mark II many times as a teenager, wanted to get her CCW and really wanted to purchase a Ruger SR22 about 5 years ago. At the time, her boyfriend (now her husband) and me tried to talk her into something else. He took her shooting his .40 (bad idea!), and I let her try a .38 revolver and Ruger LCP .380acp. She only loved shooting the Mark II or the SR22 that the range owned. What happened? She ended up getting nothing.

In retrospect I kick myself for not encouraging her to get the SR22, and at least carry something she was comfortable with, hopefully graduating up to something else later on.

Would I carry a 22 myself? No - not with my LCP for ultra compact pocket carry, and my XD-M Compact for when I can use a IWB or OWB holster. But I would rather my daughter was carrying something than not carrying.
 
jfmorris said:
I've heard and repeated that mantra myself for decades. Then, looking at my own 22LR experience with a Ruger Mark II, I've probably put something like 10,000 rounds through that pistol since 1990, either with paper targets or outdoors plinking at cans on a fence or something. I recently had my first two ammo failures. Ever. Both were stovepiped rounds that failed to fully eject and chamber the next round. Guess what I was shooting at the time? 40 to 50 year old 22LR ammo purchased by my father in law at an Otasco store some time in the 1970's! That's a pretty low failure rate - maybe I've just been lucky, as I don't remember ever having duds before that, and most of the 22LR ammo I buy is bulk boxes of 550 or more rounds.

My oldest daughter shot that same Ruger Mark II many times as a teenager, wanted to get her CCW and really wanted to purchase a Ruger SR22 about 5 years ago. At the time, her boyfriend (now her husband) and me tried to talk her into something else. He took her shooting his .40 (bad idea!), and I let her try a .38 revolver and Ruger LCP .380acp. She only loved shooting the Mark II or the SR22 that the range owned. What happened? She ended up getting nothing.

In retrospect I kick myself for not encouraging her to get the SR22, and at least carry something she was comfortable with, hopefully graduating up to something else later on.

Would I carry a 22 myself? No - not with my LCP for ultra compact pocket carry, and my XD-M Compact for when I can use a IWB or OWB holster. But I would rather my daughter was carrying something than not carrying.
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Seems to me you need to make a firearm purchase. Something like an SR22 ??! :unsure: ;)
 
papa said:
Seems to me you need to make a firearm purchase. Something like an SR22 ??! :unsure: ;)
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Mmmm. This particular daughter is now 28, married, and both her and her husband being engineers, has more disposable income than I do, sadly. She is on her own in this area! If I buy an SR22, it will be for my wife at this point.

Now, the 23 year old daughter, one of her last two Christmases at home, before she got married, WANTED a pistol, and obtained her CCW in hopes of Santa bringing her one. Due to budget, Santa brought her a Ruger LCP380, which has done well for her. She's a good shot with it too. And she can use it to protect my 2 month old granddaughter! ;)

Interestingly, and I don't know if its an eyesight or coordination thing, but both of my daughters (28 and 23) have always been better shots than my son (26).
 
jfmorris said:
I've heard and repeated that mantra myself for decades. Then, looking at my own 22LR experience with a Ruger Mark II, I've probably put something like 10,000 rounds through that pistol since 1990, either with paper targets or outdoors plinking at cans on a fence or something. I recently had my first two ammo failures. Ever. Both were stovepiped rounds that failed to fully eject and chamber the next round. Guess what I was shooting at the time? 40 to 50 year old 22LR ammo purchased by my father in law at an Otasco store some time in the 1970's! That's a pretty low failure rate - maybe I've just been lucky, as I don't remember ever having duds before that, and most of the 22LR ammo I buy is bulk boxes of 550 or more rounds.

My oldest daughter shot that same Ruger Mark II many times as a teenager, wanted to get her CCW and really wanted to purchase a Ruger SR22 about 5 years ago. At the time, her boyfriend (now her husband) and me tried to talk her into something else. He took her shooting his .40 (bad idea!), and I let her try a .38 revolver and Ruger LCP .380acp. She only loved shooting the Mark II or the SR22 that the range owned. What happened? She ended up getting nothing.

In retrospect I kick myself for not encouraging her to get the SR22, and at least carry something she was comfortable with, hopefully graduating up to something else later on.

Would I carry a 22 myself? No - not with my LCP for ultra compact pocket carry, and my XD-M Compact for when I can use a IWB or OWB holster. But I would rather my daughter was carrying something than not carrying.
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Bit overwhelmed? It tends to happen when people are beginners in most anything new and have too many options. Limiting choices to 3 at most can help. Some people also tend to think smaller guns are better for smaller people? It's not always the case with handguns. Many smaller people go with longer barreled target guns because of sometimes lesser recoil, but you already know that from the Ruger target gun? May be surprised what and how those kids do? Possibly try something in a .380? 9mm likely better ammo availability though?
 
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papa said:
Seems to me you need to make a firearm purchase. Something like an SR22 ??! :unsure: ;)
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I been shooting .22 LR for most of my life and im 60 now. love plinking with it.
I have a few .22 pistols...
Kel tec PMR30 (.22 magnum)
Berreta Neos
Taurus TX22 Competition
An old beat up heritage rough rider that I can pick the eyes out of a gnat with and have actually killed several rabbits in the yard with.
Simply said I wouldnt carry it for SD and explained why. The issue is built into the rimfire design itself. Nothing can be done about it.
If anyone of you had a pistol that didnt fire reliably you would pull it from EDC duty but will readily accept the ammo and the stats of only 3 or 4 FTF in a few thousand rounds.
Its acceptable then?
Why?
No way to twist the facts to fit the narrative here.
Just because someone made some ammo and called it self defense does nothing for the rimfire design.
They will make 10 gauge shotguns rounds and call them self defense rounds if there is a market for it.
Dont make it a wise choice tho.

Google .22 lr reliability.
Its not just me saying it to torment you guys lol
Here is an excerpt from the 1st link on the page out of 591 THOUSAND results...

There are some very good reasons .22 LR is (and has been for a very long time) the most popular caliber in the world. The ammo is cheap, the guns are also usually affordable, it’s got very low recoil, and it’s just tons of fun to shoot. But relying on a .22 for personal protection is a controversial practice because of its unimpressive terminal ballistic properties. That was the topic of our video last week, and in particular, we looked at the viability of .22 pocket-sized handguns for concealed carry.

I personally think there is a case to be made for carrying a .22 under certain circumstances, but there is one part of that topic that I purposefully avoided because I thought it warranted its own separate discussion, and that’s reliability. .22 LR has a reputation for being inherently unreliable, but there is a lot we can do to mitigate that and maybe even make a .22 dependable enough to trust for personal protection. This is part of our series on pocket pistols, but most of what I’m going to talk about should also apply to any .22 pistol, revolver, or rifle.

When we talk about .22 LR being unreliable, there are actually two different issues we’re referring to: failures to fire and failures to feed.
out of a big bulk pack of .22 ammo, it’s not unusual to end up with a handful of rounds or more that just won’t go “bang.”

Rimmed cartridges like the .22 LR are also not ideally suited for magazine-fed semi-automatic actions. These days, there are some very reliable .22 semi-auto pistols and rifles out there, but on average, feeding problems are a lot more likely with a .22 than with ANY centerfire auto-loader.
 
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iklwa said:
There is an old saying that goes something like this:
Never use a small caliber gun on a large caliber man.
Drugs can make even a skinny little guy incredibly strong.
Look up Moro warriors.

A better question is: What is the most powerful handgun I can shoot well and carry easily?

Save the 22s for small game, teaching new shooters and plinking fun.

PS I have a Ruger Mark 1, a Mark 3 and a Wrangler as well as a few rifles chambered in 22. There is a reason why Africa has rules about minimum caliber firearms when hunting there: the game is tough.
People with determination can be very tough too.
Click to expand...
I heard a movie line that went "Never shoot a large caliber man with a small caliber bullet."
 
I’m always amused by the...ahem... “measuring” contests that inevitably arise when caliber discussions roll around. The extreme examples brought out to justify choices-bears! Tribal warriors from over a century ago, half a globe away!

Fact if the matter is, most non-LE gunfights get settled in under two rounds fired, regardless of caliber.

So, if a big bore blaster makes you feel warm & fuzzy, carry it. But odds are...a good .22 will be more than enough.

An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power | Buckeye Firearms Association

by Greg Ellifritz I've been interested in firearm stopping power for a very long time. I remember reading Handguns magazine back in the late 1980s when Evan Marshall was writing articles about his stopping power studies. When Marshall's first book came out in 1992, I ordered it immediately...
www.buckeyefirearms.org www.buckeyefirearms.org

Food for thought. If your cognitive dissonance is strong, you might not want to read it.
 
HansGruber said:
I’m always amused by the...ahem... “measuring” contests that inevitably arise when caliber discussions roll around. The extreme examples brought out to justify choices-bears! Tribal warriors from over a century ago, half a globe away!

Fact if the matter is, most non-LE gunfights get settled in under two rounds fired, regardless of caliber.

So, if a big bore blaster makes you feel warm & fuzzy, carry it. But odds are...a good .22 will be more than enough.

An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power | Buckeye Firearms Association

by Greg Ellifritz I've been interested in firearm stopping power for a very long time. I remember reading Handguns magazine back in the late 1980s when Evan Marshall was writing articles about his stopping power studies. When Marshall's first book came out in 1992, I ordered it immediately...
www.buckeyefirearms.org www.buckeyefirearms.org

Food for thought. If your cognitive dissonance is strong, you might not want to read it.
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The point is: Drug addicts who are enraged are very often hard to stop.
Shaka Zulu told his Impi warriors no white man's bullet would harm them. They were just high on adrenaline. Their ox hide shields did no good against the Martini Henry .577.
Your rationalization could lead someone to believe no firearm is required at all.
You could just use harsh language.
For dry fire practice, you could stand in front of a mirror and yell.

If a 22 is all you have, it is what it is.
It would be foolhardy to eschew a "major caliber" handgun in favor of a 22 just because its cute, cheap, recoils less, is quieter or you think you'll be embarrassed by someone on the internet.
Note: No police department issues or ever has issued a 22 as a primary duty handgun.
I don't think they ever will.
 
iklwa said:
The point is: Drug addicts who are enraged are very often hard to stop.
Shaka Zulu told his Impi warriors no white man's bullet would harm them. They were just high on adrenaline. Their ox hide shields did no good against the Martini Henry .577.
Your rationalization could lead someone to believe no firearm is required at all.
You could just use harsh language.
For dry fire practice, you could stand in front of a mirror and yell.

If a 22 is all you have, it is what it is.
It would be foolhardy to eschew a "major caliber" handgun in favor of a 22 just because its cute, cheap, recoils less, is quieter or you think you'll be embarrassed by someone on the internet.
Note: No police department issues or ever has issued a 22 as a primary duty handgun.
I don't think they ever will.
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I’m wondering what exact leap of logic it took to get to “no firearm is required at all” from what I wrote...show me exactly where I said that.

I’ll wait.

And again, tribal warriors from half a world away, and over a century ago...
 
HansGruber said:
I’m wondering what exact leap of logic it took to get to “no firearm is required at all” from what I wrote...show me exactly where I said that.

I’ll wait.

And again, tribal warriors from half a world away, and over a century ago...
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Perhaps you would be better off to begin reading this thread from the beginning.
Equivocating as a form of argument is disingenuous.
Please point out where I argued using a "blaster" is the one and only possible choice for self defense.
The "leap of logic" was merely extrapolation from your comments.
If ya don't need a 45 or a 40 or a 9 or a 380 or a 32 or a 25 to get the job done, than it is an easy step to say you don't need a 22 either.
 
iklwa said:
Perhaps you would be better off to begin reading this thread from the beginning.
Equivocating as a form of argument is disingenuous.
Please point out where I argued using a "blaster" is the one and only possible choice for self defense.
The "leap of logic" was merely extrapolation from your comments.
If ya don't need a 45 or a 40 or a 9 or a 380 or a 32 or a 25 to get the job done, than it is an easy step to say you don't need a 22 either.
Click to expand...
That’s a huge leap...the fact you don’t see it speaks volumes.
 
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