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10mm for Self Defense: Is It Too Powerful?

RangerBill said:
I agree it's a very powerful round, but too powerful for what? I have had a Glock 21 for years, and the only thing I carry it for is when I'm hunting or fly fishing the back country in Montana or Wyoming. That's the only reason I have it. I hope I never have to see if it's "enough gun" for a cantankerous Grizzly, although I have been assured it is by many.;)

Regards,
Bill
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The .45 ACP is a good round
 
IMO, depending on the carry load, the firearm and the conditions, I would say yes, it’s on the cusp of being too much gun for humanoid defense. A woods gun, or home defense where collateral damage should be minimal or nonexistent, cool, but magnum loads, and those I consider to be (+p+) loads like the full house 10mm, can have some pretty devastating results. For home defense or go to war, then hell yes, load up for predator disposals, but for concealed carry, I’ll pass; too much gun for the average day to day and possible encounter. Should I be faced with having to pull my gun and use a round of .45ACP or even 9mm and doesn’t stop the threat, I’ll send another until it does. Knowing that the FBI test of 12” is only if the subject is turned sideways, or if the round needs to pass through the arm and possibly bone, and most any duty round of today will do that; why take the risk of deep over penetration and the possible serious after effects. Chances are high, you might not have a clear background when you need to defend yourself or a loved one.
 
Gottabkiddin said:
IMO, depending on the carry load, the firearm and the conditions, I would say yes, it’s on the cusp of being too much gun for humanoid defense. A woods gun, or home defense where collateral damage should be minimal or nonexistent, cool, but magnum loads, and those I consider to be (+p+) loads like the full house 10mm, can have some pretty devastating results. For home defense or go to war, then hell yes, load up for predator disposals, but for concealed carry, I’ll pass; too much gun for the average day to day and possible encounter. Should I be faced with having to pull my gun and use a round of .45ACP or even 9mm and doesn’t stop the threat, I’ll send another until it does. Knowing that the FBI test of 12” is only if the subject is turned sideways, or if the round needs to pass through the arm and possibly bone, and most any duty round of today will do that; why take the risk of deep over penetration and the possible serious after effects. Chances are high, you might not have a clear background when you need to defend yourself or a loved one.
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For the reason I use fmj! You can't rely on a perfect situation! They might be using cover=fmj for the win! I do carry 1 mag of hp. 10mm or any of my 8 pistol cartridges from 5.7 to 50 cal. I have 3 10mm pistols(g20. g40 and xdm) and 2 carbines and gotta love those perfect 10's the hotter the better!
 
BangBang said:
The .45 ACP is a good round
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The 45 ACP is a very good round. All of my 45's are conventional 1911 single stack. I like the large capacity of the Glock. I know, I can get high capacity 45's. I have the Glock, no need to run off and buy another pistol.

Last summer the wife and I went off to western Montana, I had a military reunion to attend, then we were going to sight see around Glacier Park. I had brought my Para Commander for the road, not thinking I'd be doing much around Griz country. We stopped on the west side of Glacier near the Polebridge ranger station, and took a wee hike, a few miles. Brushy willows and aspens, and as we walked into a nice flat pasture setting, it looked like a giant excavator had torn up the earth. Here I am with just over 20 rounds, wishing for my usual 45 or 60 with the Glock. On the way out all I could think of was a big bruin coming through, tearing up the brush like a shower curtain. I spoke with the Ranger when we returned. "Why yes, we have had a big one in the area just a day ago. Did you see it?". At the end of the day, I'd rather have the 375 H&H with me. Forbidden in the parks.

Regards,
Bill
 
Annihilator said:
I have been looking at the XDm in 10mm recently, this round has some kick, but it’s not all that bad, also been looking at the S&W 610 revolver, this can also shoot .40 S&W....decisions...decisions
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I have been too, but the Ruger revolver. I'm looking to get a XDM OSP with threaded barrel. None here near me but I did fined one about a hour and a half away. Hope to get time to go get it soon.
 
10MM too powerful??!?

Short answer: NO.

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The 10MM is not mystical. It is a decent round. I my opinion, it's had surpassed the .357 Mag as being our most overrated cartridge.

Colonel Jeff Cooper was the steward for mainstreaming the 10MM. His influence undoubtedly influenced many to join the 10MM fraternity. After a few years, Colonel Cooper returned home to his beloved: his loyal and trusty 1911A1 .45 ACP.

In a superbly designed handgun like the Springfield Armory 1911A1 TRP, with a more robust recoil spring, the .45 can be transformed in to a remarkably powerful cartridge. But it is not necessary to enhance the already powerful and proven .45 ACP cartridge. My wilderness carry handgun is a Springfield Armory TRP .45 ACP loaded with 230 grain Fed HST LE +P ammo. I'm sure urban legend has it that wild beasts have absorbed 8 such rounds without expressing insignificant inconvenience. Reality is no beast in North America is going to come out on top after taking 8 of those rounds. I have no desire to transform my TRP into a .45 Super. For bipedal self-defense, standard velocity .45 ACP is more than sufficient.

A huge advantage the .45 ACP has over the 10MM and most other handgun cartridges is it's a low pressure round. Standard pressure of the .45 ACP is ~ 16,000 PSI. The 10MM is at least double that.

The 10MM is a good cartridge, but it's not the panacea for hand gunners looking for nebulous power.

BTW, I have a good friend who's still trying to buy a TRP .45 Auto. He can find a 10MM TRP quite easily. But he can't find a .45 ACP TRP. Seems as though demand has revealed hand runners knowledge and preference.

Cartridge prognostication is not my forte. But were I unable to avoid an opinion, I'd be inclined to opine that the 10MM's popularity will continue its descent.
 
SATRP said:
The 10MM is not mystical. It is a decent round. I my opinion, it's had surpassed the .357 Mag as being our most overrated cartridge.

Colonel Jeff Cooper was the steward for mainstreaming the 10MM. His influence undoubtedly influenced many to join the 10MM fraternity. After a few years, Colonel Cooper returned home to his beloved: his loyal and trusty 1911A1 .45 ACP.

In a superbly designed handgun like the Springfield Armory 1911A1 TRP, with a more robust recoil spring, the .45 can be transformed in to a remarkably powerful cartridge. But it is not necessary to enhance the already powerful and proven .45 ACP cartridge. My wilderness carry handgun is a Springfield Armory TRP .45 ACP loaded with 230 grain Fed HST LE +P ammo. I'm sure urban legend has it that wild beasts have absorbed 8 such rounds without expressing insignificant inconvenience. Reality is no beast in North America is going to come out on top after taking 8 of those rounds. I have no desire to transform my TRP into a .45 Super. For bipedal self-defense, standard velocity .45 ACP is more than sufficient.

A huge advantage the .45 ACP has over the 10MM and most other handgun cartridges is it's a low pressure round. Standard pressure of the .45 ACP is ~ 16,000 PSI. The 10MM is at least double that.

The 10MM is a good cartridge, but it's not the panacea for hand gunners looking for nebulous power.

BTW, I have a good friend who's still trying to buy a TRP .45 Auto. He can find a 10MM TRP quite easily. But he can't find a .45 ACP TRP. Seems as though demand has revealed hand runners knowledge and preference.

Cartridge prognostication is not my forte. But were I unable to avoid an opinion, I'd be inclined to opine that the 10MM's popularity will continue its descent.
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10MM is basically an autoloading .41 magnum IMHO. If you like magnums, you'll love 10MM like I do. If you're not into stout loads, then not. Like all things in the gun world, it really is a matter of personal preference. But I'll say this: if women can handle 10MM - and many do, PREFERRING 10mm when in the great outdoors - then it can't be TOO powerful. AND... the XDM-10 really does a great job of mitigating felt recoil!
 
Gottabkiddin said:
I’d feel pretty confident while in the woods carrying my XD 45 with 230gr FMJ on board. Besides, I’ve never been of the mindset “one shot stops” will solves all your problems. I will be pretty quick to consider a mag dump and reload should mr. 🐻 think I’m on the menu.
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Interesting you should mention Mr Bear I recently watched an animal planet show called “I Was Prey” it was an hour long show depicting two wild animal attacks by bears and mountain lions. The one thing I found incredible was both started out with the individual talking about how they had been taking day long hikes in the dense forest for years and knew of multiple animal attacks but neither thought about taking a firearm with them for safety.
Not my idea of staying safe.
My idea would be my 45ACP on my hip and an AR Pistol slung over my shoulder.
 
SATRP said:
The 10MM is not mystical. It is a decent round. I my opinion, it's had surpassed the .357 Mag as being our most overrated cartridge.

Colonel Jeff Cooper was the steward for mainstreaming the 10MM. His influence undoubtedly influenced many to join the 10MM fraternity. After a few years, Colonel Cooper returned home to his beloved: his loyal and trusty 1911A1 .45 ACP.

In a superbly designed handgun like the Springfield Armory 1911A1 TRP, with a more robust recoil spring, the .45 can be transformed in to a remarkably powerful cartridge. But it is not necessary to enhance the already powerful and proven .45 ACP cartridge. My wilderness carry handgun is a Springfield Armory TRP .45 ACP loaded with 230 grain Fed HST LE +P ammo. I'm sure urban legend has it that wild beasts have absorbed 8 such rounds without expressing insignificant inconvenience. Reality is no beast in North America is going to come out on top after taking 8 of those rounds. I have no desire to transform my TRP into a .45 Super. For bipedal self-defense, standard velocity .45 ACP is more than sufficient.

A huge advantage the .45 ACP has over the 10MM and most other handgun cartridges is it's a low pressure round. Standard pressure of the .45 ACP is ~ 16,000 PSI. The 10MM is at least double that.

The 10MM is a good cartridge, but it's not the panacea for hand gunners looking for nebulous power.

BTW, I have a good friend who's still trying to buy a TRP .45 Auto. He can find a 10MM TRP quite easily. But he can't find a .45 ACP TRP. Seems as though demand has revealed hand runners knowledge and preference.

Cartridge prognostication is not my forte. But were I unable to avoid an opinion, I'd be inclined to opine that the 10MM's popularity will continue its descent.
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Standard pressure for a 45acp is 21,000 and +p is 23,000. 10mm is 37,500psi. A 10mm isn't overrated, just over looked! I like the 3 I have! A 45acp @ 50 yards and less is good, but passed that better have a 10mm!
 
Minuteman1969 said:
10MM is basically an autoloading .41 magnum IMHO. If you like magnums, you'll love 10MM like I do. If you're not into stout loads, then not. Like all things in the gun world, it really is a matter of personal preference. But I'll say this: if women can handle 10MM - and many do, PREFERRING 10mm when in the great outdoors - then it can't be TOO powerful. AND... the XDM-10 really does a great job of mitigating felt recoil!
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No, it’s not...it’s not even close to .41 Magnum.

The only way to compare is by taking the hottest 10mm handloads, and finding some of the lightest commercial .41 loads...then it comes close, but still doesn’t equal .41 Magnum. If you go apples to apples—equal bullet weight pushed to its max safe velocity... .41 squashes 10mm.

The fact is, 10mm is pretty much the equal of .357 Magnum, until you get into loads over 200gr.
 
Back in the '80s, the FBI established 12in as the bare minimum penetration depth for self-defense rounds. But that is like a "D" grade on a test. They said the ideal was definitely more. They never established a maximum depth for their tests. They said that 18in was the maximum practical penetration depth because anything more would likely result in an exit wound, but even then, they did't deem that a failure. They scoffed at the whole overpenetration phobia. Thus, 18in is the ideal penetration depth, but slightly over doesn't magically become a big red "F". Think about that.

10mm is the best overall caliber for self-defense because it can easily be loaded for that sweet spot of 18in of penetration, its recoil is still manageable, and you can easily find high capacity magazines for it in the most popular pistols chambered in it. .44Mag kicks its butt in the muzzle energy department, but it is not so easy to find low-powered loads that keep the penetration down at the sweet spot, and you will still always be limited by capacity with rounds that big.
 
Also, I believe that the 10mm = .41Mag myth comes from Bren Ten catalog hype in the '80s. Gotta be wary of marketing sizzle like that.

My 10mm semiauto really has about the same performance (but with twice the capacity) as my father's .357Mag revolver. It's actually something that bonds us together.
 
Tactical-Reviews said:
I don't know who makes the bullet, but Liberty ammunition makes the round.
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Most likely Civil Defense rounds. They make really fast moving rounds using really lightweight aluminum bullets. I've shot a box of 9mm Civil Defense rounds at the range and the recoil seems very muted. The 10mm version of Civil Defense ammo is actually pretty devastating on soft tissue targets as I have seen in a few Youtube videos.
 
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Since 10's weight more than 9's, I suspect that is a factor in why the 10 doesn't feel anymore harsh than a 9.
The 10's ability to penetrate up to 40" of ballistic gel, means you need to be well aware of what's behind your target and realized that you can often shoot right through cover. For those who live around dangerous predators, the 10mm could be the one pistol to cover all of the bases. Perfect for visiting the Griz infested Kirwin Gold Mine in Wyoming.
www.raggedyedge.net

Kirwin Gold Mine

Kirwin Gold Mine Shoshone National Forest
www.raggedyedge.net www.raggedyedge.net
 
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