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Another p320 "accidental discharge"

SoNic said:
I agree.
Personally I love the looks and feel of the 1911 guns, but when I first pressed the hair trigger on a Kimber (empty, at a LGS) I realized that's not something that I would have time to learn how to use safely. Especially with the weird (for me) way they work in general (thumb safety, removed magazine, rear safety).
I stick with my poly, no thumb safety, guns.

However the point he is making, and I agree with, is that those holsters are something that can fail in a stress situation for someone that is not trained with them enough.
And also he said that the Level III holsters are not the same as what normal people buy at Wally.
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Hair trigger? I have never seen, nor fired a 1911 with anything near a hair trigger, and I have shot many of them. I would think that selling such a pistol from the factory would present serious legal responsibility.

Hair triggers were designed for target shooters and were measured in ounces, not pounds. Most places I have read consider anything less than 2 lbs a dangerous trigger pull, and could be a "hair trigger".

Yes, a 1911 trigger is lighter, especially lighter feeling, but not what is generally thought of as a hair trigger. Part of the feel is that they slide straight back, they do not pivot thru an arc like most other triggers. This presents a very different trigger experience.

As a historical side note, it was found that the dueling pistols used in the Hamilton Burr duel contained a hidden hair trigger, which was activated by pushing forward first.

It is speculated by some that since they were chosen by Hamilton and were from a relative, he knew this. His fast and missed firs t shot may have come accidently as he might have misjudged the trigger and fired before he had properly aimed. Burr on the other hand was a oblivious and simply took time, aimed, squeezed, and killed his opponent.
 
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The story I read I think is a Canadian Officer was using a holster mad for the P226 with his P320 so I don't see that lawsuit making it to court. A lot of the cases the gun was out of the holster and her interview doesn't align with the article that I read where she said she bumped her purse on the desk or filing cabinet. How many other accidental discharges have happened to women carrying a gun in their purse? Quite a few.
 
SimonRL said:
I spend a lot of time on Sig Talk and those guys are the first ones to complain about a Sig pistol and do so with aplomb. It just stuns me how many people think the P365 is a massively flawed pistol, which sales seem to indicate anything but. The P320, however, is rarely dissed - in fact, it is exalted because it is so easy to modify and improve upon. I can’t ever recall reading of an issue of anyone’s P320 going if by itself, and yet here are these lawsuits which primarily represent Police Officers. There are also dozens of videos on YouTube where we’ll-meaning lunkheads have tried to get their P320s to fire How is it that so many cops have had problems while the cash paying owners like you and me seem to be trouble free? Something just doesn’t add up and I honestly don’t think the issue is on Sig’s end. Is there a firearms version of an ambulance chaser?
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I was a member of SIG Talk but got banned because I posted my thoughts on how bad the P365 was with the strikers breaking and primer drag and everyone there were cussing me saying I'm lying about the P365 breaking and my last post I just said if you can't handle the truth they could kiss my a** >>>>>>BANNED 🤣. The P365 XL is the superior pistol in that group unless you get the P365 Spectre.
 
SoNic said:
Another video showing how a specific brand of retention holster might be a bad thing to have:
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He makes some valid points however I just bought a Blackhawk Serpa and in no way is it hot junk, the paddle works for me and because of the thickness of my belt and jeans combined make it IMPOSSIBLE to pull up and off. I practiced extensively with it when I got it “gun unloaded” of course and not once did my index finger go into the trigger guard. Also not mentioned that if anyone try’s to remove the gun from the holster without first pushing the release button the gun will not release while being pulled is a safety feature.
Training, Practice, training, practice.
 
jmcd said:
Another report of accidental discharge April 29th 2022.

www.wcvb.com

Third Mass. police officer sues gunmaker Sig Sauer in federal court

The lawsuit alleges holstered P320 handgun fired on its own, shot her in the leg
www.wcvb.com www.wcvb.com
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Interesting read:

apnews.com

AP Exclusive: Accidental shootings show police training gaps

SEATTLE (AP) — When an Iowa mother tried to take her child from her husband during an argument on a snowy sidewalk in 2015, an officer stepped in to stop the scuffle, but he accidentally fired his weapon as a dog approached...
apnews.com apnews.com

“Accidental shootings by law enforcement have happened in recent years at agencies small and large and at all levels — city, county, state and federal — across the U.S., an Associated Press investigation found. They’ve caused hundreds of injuries to officers, suspects and bystanders, and sometimes they’ve caused deaths.

Experts say it’s because officers don’t get the training they need to handle their guns proficiently, especially in life-and-death situations.

The methods used to train officers with their firearms “create the illusion of learning” but are inadequate for the demands of today’s policing, said Bill Lewinski, executive director of the Illinois-based Force Science Institute, which provides research and training to law enforcement agencies.”

“The training has to match the shooting challenges on the street,” he said. “We don’t do enough street training connected to actual skill and decision-making that’s required of officers in this type of encounter. Some officers only handle their guns once a year.”

Officers are most proficient with their guns immediately after graduating from a police academy, experts say.
 
Bassbob said:
So women keep shooting themselves with the Sig. But there’s something wrong with the gun. :rolleyes:
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Semenza also represents Somerville police officer Walter Collette, a 20-year department veteran, who sued the gun maker in August, claiming his department-issued P320 fired on its own and the bullet struck his lower leg causing serious injury. Obviously, this was in a OWB holster.

In June, Cambridge police Lt. Thomas Ahern filed suit, accusing Sig Sauer of selling a dangerously defective product after his P320 fired on its own while he was in the department's SWAT team van with six other officers.

Miraculously, no one was hit by the bullet, which ricocheted around inside the vehicle.

Semenza said the Somerville police department has already cleared Catatao of any wrongdoing.

Gun manufacturers are not perfect, neither are their products.

Many years ago, Glock had the G19 Gen 3. There were many complaints that the gun was malfunctioning. Producing FTFs, Stovepipes, etc. Glock blamed the shooters for "limp wristing the gun". Problem is, a lot of the complaints were from Law Enforcement AND the Military, along with civilians. While Glock never "admitted" to the problem, they did a fix in their next series of the Gen 3. So, Sig isn't the only manufacturer to deny any problems exist with their product. While this may not be "widespread", it still needs to be investigated. It could very well be that there was a bad batch of the parts that are part of this "upgrade".

I am a flexopress operator, I print labels. A company that I worked at not too long ago got the contract to print the labels for the Takata Air Bag recalls. How many millions of cars and trucks did this effect? My truck was one of them. This is not a perfect world, manufacturers are not perfect, their products are not perfect. This is life.
 
Onewolf426 said:
Semenza also represents Somerville police officer Walter Collette, a 20-year department veteran, who sued the gun maker in August, claiming his department-issued P320 fired on its own and the bullet struck his lower leg causing serious injury. Obviously, this was in a OWB holster.

In June, Cambridge police Lt. Thomas Ahern filed suit, accusing Sig Sauer of selling a dangerously defective product after his P320 fired on its own while he was in the department's SWAT team van with six other officers.

Miraculously, no one was hit by the bullet, which ricocheted around inside the vehicle.

Semenza said the Somerville police department has already cleared Catatao of any wrongdoing. Gun manufacturers are not perfect, neither are their products.

Many years ago, Glock had the G19 Gen 3. There were many complaints that the gun was malfunctioning. Producing FTFs, Stovepipes, etc. Glock blamed the shooters for "limp wristing the gun". Problem is, a lot of the complaints were from Law Enforcement AND the Military, along with civilians. While Glock never "admitted" to the problem, they did a fix in their next series of the Gen 3. So, Sig isn't the only manufacturer to deny any problems exist with their product. While this may not be "widespread", it still needs to be investigated. It could very well be that there was a bad batch of the parts that are part of this "upgrade".

I am a flexopress operator, I print labels. A company that I worked at not too long ago got the contract to print the labels for the Takata Air Bag recalls. How many millions of cars and trucks did this effect? My truck was one of them. This is not a perfect world, manufacturers are not perfect, their products are not perfect. This is life.
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I never heard of that about the Gen 3 Glocks, and I was a Glock Armorer for that series, but the Gen 4 Glocks had that issue, it came down to defective RSA, Glock sent you a replacement and you sent the old one back.
 
Annihilator said:
I never heard of that about the Gen 3 Glocks, and I was a Glock Armorer for that series, but the Gen 4 Glocks had that issue, it came down to defective RSA, Glock sent you a replacement and you sent the old one back.
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I learned this on Marine Builder on the P80 I was building. The one I was building is based on the G19 Gen 3, and I was having issues with FTF, stovepiping. After reading about this, I ordered the Apex Failsafe Extractor, and it solved the problem. Maybe it wasn't with every one, but it was an issue. Not knocking Glock, I like them.
 
SimonRL said:
The difference was that the Glock issue didn’t primarily pop up with LEOs, unlike the P320. Where’s all the civilians who’ve been maimed with their P320s and their class action lawsuits. Yeah, that’s what I thought…
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People of the Gun are probably familiar with the early problems the P320 had regarding drop safety. Back in 2017, SIG instituted a voluntary upgrade program to replace the original production triggers with new “enhanced” triggers designed to fix the issue that we and others observed when the pistols were dropped onto hard surfaces.

None of the current lawsuits appear to be in any way related to the now-fixed drop safety issue and most, if not all of the allegations seem to involve upgraded pistols or those produced after the drop safety problem was identified by SIG.

The current allegations, then, are different, claiming that the P320 is prone to “un-commanded discharges.”
 
From December 31, 2020 "1945"
The baseline P320 has endured some problems.

A federal agent in Delaware introduced a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer this year. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. He was told to shoot two rounds. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. The round hit him in the hip and then came out the back of his thigh causing much damage.

Another lawsuit filed in August of this year alleged that a police officer in Massachusetts was carrying his P320 in a duffel bag wrapped well with a cloth. The officer was hurt in his leg when the gun went off without a trigger pill. A police officer in Texas also has a $15 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer after she said her P320 was fired when it was in her purse and hit her in the leg. Apparently, we haven't heard of everything going on. Probably due to the Covid/political/supply issue/war in Ukraine/inflation/gas prices. Take your pick.
 
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