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Armed IRS agents raid, temporarily close gun shop

Bassbob said:
Any of you homos touch any of my stuff, I kill ya.


Just watched that movie last night for the first time in probably 20 years.


I still say it's BS. Some guys on an internet message board are privvy to way less information than a US congressional representative. And there is no situation where the IRS seizing 4473s is legit.
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BassBob the almost dead Bass player,
Touch his stuff and he’ll……..

 
Bassbob said:
So you trust Steve Dettlebach and Joe Biden more than a pro gun rep from Montana and a legal gun dealer. You do you brother.
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NO NO NO NO NO
all of them are snakes. they only cater to the dollar . long gone are reps that actually
walk the walk all the time. if we did have them, the crap storm we have now would be DONE
we have many prog un or pro liberty reps here and each session they cow down to the imports from ca that are trying to take over our state.
 
powerboatr said:
NO NO NO NO NO
all of them are snakes. they only cater to the dollar . long gone are reps that actually
walk the walk all the time. if we did have them, the crap storm we have now would be DONE
we have many prog un or pro liberty reps here and each session they cow down to the imports from ca that are trying to take over our state.
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They're not all snakes. Maybe most of them and all of them in whatever state you live in, but in places like Missouri and Montana and South Dakota and Texas there are plenty of them that while probably still somewhat beholden to the dollar, WILL do the job they were elected to do.


So now, we have a legal gun store owner, a state rep and the Montana Attorney General.



“I spoke with the shop owner who told me that 20 heavily armed IRS agents from multiple states in our region served a warrant before his business opened. They took dozens of boxes full of 4473s — more than a decade’s worth. This is extremely concerning because it seemingly exceeds the search warrant which limited the scope of the search to financial records. These aren’t financial records, they’re records of lawful firearm purchases. What the hell does the IRS need with 4473s? We know the ATF in Washington, DC is trying to scoop up as many of these purchase records as possible, and that’s what it looks like they’re trying to do here.”



But I'm sure the ATF and the IRS aren't up to anything shady.
 
Bassbob said:
Well don’t go into the other thread on this subject. Over there it’s automatically the FFLs fault because the ATF wouldn’t do that for some trumped up BS. After all, they’ve changed since the Janet Reno days right? :rolleyes: Never mind the fact that we have video of ATF agents trying to get a civilian to show him their guns without a warrant. You know, because they were investigating people for straw purchases and the guy bought 6 guns that year. There’s guys here that bought 6 guns last week. And then there’s the video of a female ATF agent taking pictures on her cell phone of 4473s in a gun store.
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Since that was my post you’re referring to let me just ad. Since a lot of folks are skimming over this part and going straight to the sky is falling part. In several articles The gun shop owner himself mentioned how Polite and Professional the Agents were. To me that sounds like a big change to the Janet Reno days from 30 years ago. Nobody got shot up since those 2 debacles in the 1990’s.

And last time I was at FLETC the IRS CID Agents all carried a Glock of some variety so if some are calling that being heavily armed that sounds like something some Woke Yahoo would say!

Again we shall see but obviously something passed the sniff test or a warrant wouldn’t have been signed. Even though it was a Fed search warrant it was a District of Montana Fed judge that signed it. Which are one of the more conservative state district. Now 9th Circus or I mean Circuit that Montana falls under on appeals can be another story.
 
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ECS686 said:
Since that was my post you’re referring to let me just ad. Since a lot of folks are skimming over this part and going straight to the sky is falling part. In several articles The gun shop owner himself mentioned how Polite and Professional the Agents were. To me that sounds like a big change to the Janet Reno days from 30 years ago. Nobody got shot up since those 2 debacles in the 1990’s.

And last time I was at FLETC the IRS CID Agents all carried a Glock of some variety so if some are calling that being heavily armed that sounds like something some Woke Yahoo would say!

Again we shall see but obviously something passed the sniff test or a warrant wouldn’t have been signed. Even though it was a Fed search warrant it was a District of Montana Fed judge that signed it. Which are one of the more conservative state district. Now 9th Circus or I mean Circuit that Montana falls under on appeals can be another story.
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They didn’t have a warrant for the 4473s. 13 years worth now in the possession of the IRS. That’s indefensible yet here you are defending them.

And I would guess the guy who has owned that store for over a decade knows what heavily armed means. It strikes me as odd that you make assumptions on what the IRS agents were armed with and once again try to deflect blame to the FFL, yet actual factual evidence, i.e. the 13 years worth of 4473s confiscated by the IRS is apparently not alarming to you.

There is no financial information on a 4473. The IRS had a warrant for financial records. Again, that’s indefensible and given the track record of this president and these specific agencies it blows my mind that so called “Pro 2A” guys default to blaming this FFL. Not surprising coming from a former federal agent I suppose.

By the way, this story hit local news stations here in STL this morning. And we probably will hear from GOA tomorrow regarding it. So if GOA joins the federal house rep and Montana AG in demanding answers from the IRS are all you other guys here ( the ones who aren’t federal agents that is) still going to run cover for the feds and make unfounded assumptions about a legal gun store owner ?
 
Bassbob said:
They didn’t have a warrant for the 4473s. 13 years worth now in the possession of the IRS. That’s indefensible yet here you are defending them.

And I would guess the guy who has owned that store for over a decade knows what heavily armed means. It strikes me as odd that you make assumptions on what the IRS agents were armed with and once again try to deflect blame to the FFL, yet actual factual evidence, i.e. the 13 years worth of 4473s confiscated by the IRS is apparently not alarming to you.

There is no financial information on a 4473. The IRS had a warrant for financial records. Again, that’s indefensible and given the track record of this president and these specific agencies it blows my mind that so called “Pro 2A” guys default to blaming this FFL. Not surprising coming from a former federal agent I suppose.

By the way, this story hit local news stations here in STL this morning. And we probably will hear from GOA tomorrow regarding it. So if GOA joins the federal house rep and Montana AG in demanding answers from the IRS are all you other guys here ( the ones who aren’t federal agents that is) still going to run cover for the feds and make unfounded assumptions about a legal gun store owner ?
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It’s an investigation. Nobody knows why the 4473 were seized some folks are merely speculating some evil master plot because the Gun Tube channels told them to. I’m simply waiting until everything comes out.

As far as any defending I’m simply stating my experience and what I have seen working within the Justice system and firearms industry since retirement.
I can’t help that some people want to just be mad by their own simple speculation.

As far as heavenly armed the most they would have had would have been a couple AF 15’s which is in about every patrol car in every town now so again if that’s heavily armed…OK whatever.

Every time anything happens people run with the sky’s falling before the facts come out if it is against “their side” Just like last year a popular gun tuber in the Carolina’s beat the war drum when the police set up a perimeter searching for a armed suspect the killed a couple police. A hospital happened to be within that perimeter. Police were doing searches of weapons of folks coming in and out and checking for injuries reported with the shooter. No different than clearing a school at an active shooter event.

Then after that truth came out everyone calmed down. And nothing .then the gun tubers moved onto the next topic of opportunity to stir stuff up.

News channels are the same way as our politicians playing both sides against each other!
 
Personally, I don’t trust that the 4473’s won’t be retained by the government for purposes other than what the intention of the warrant was. However, if I were doing the investigation, I would want the 4473’s to verify the sales records matched the 4473’s. About all we can do is hope the agents are honorable and obey the laws. Nobody will be punished if they don’t.
 
I agree wholeheartedly with ECS686. I pretty much ignore the Henny Penny BS. We are quick to jump on inaccuracies by the anti 2A folks but ironically launch when some inflammatory article comes from somewhere in the pro gun universe. Look how stupid the left looks when they do that. Well.......

I want facts, not hysteria. I want to hear Trump or Biden speak, (although Mrs Greener fears for the TV when he speaks), not have some pundit tell me what he said.

I want to know what cases are going to the courts, and to see the written decisions.

The criminal investigation facts will eventually come out. IRS will follow the money. I can see where 4473's can be narrowly relevant in a tax fraud case, if they were actually seized.

I am interested to know how this case pans out.
 
Well the Montana Attorney General disagrees that the 4473s are relevant. And the IRS agents did NOT have a warrant for them.

I personally don’t care if this guy is innocent or not, the thing I find outrageous is the 4473s. You can stroke the feds all you want, they have no business with those 4473s and you are gonna have a hard time convincing anyone with any sense they weren’t seized for “ less than honorable” purposes.


One thing is obvious. When I made the comment here ( more than once actually) that a significant percentage of LEO will follow orders even if it’s unconstitutional I wasn’t wrong. They’ll tell themselves it’s justified and that the federal agencies are on the up and up, then they’ll kick your door down, shoot your dog and take your :poop:
 
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