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ATF Pistol Brace Ban Struck Down in Federal Court

Bassbob said:
Is it telescoping ?
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It appears to be.

Screenshot_20231113_214325_Chrome Beta.jpg
 
SimonRL said:
As you know Bob, braces keep your trousers up. Stocks are for manly men.

BTW, I have had some really unpleasant conversations with some d-bags slagging off folks who had taken advantage of the amnesty on another forum. I may have got a weeks ban for questioning one individuals manhood. Or was it intelligence? Whichever, I was subjected to a seven day cooling off period. I don’t want to name the forum, but it rhymes with SigTalk.

D’oh!!!
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Haha, there are more on AKFiles who are the same way. The kicker is all of them have SBRs, but think those that got a SBR for free are cheap, sold themselves out, would sell other gun owners out, and they are hoping that the ATF sticks it to us. Now if we gave the AFT and IRS $200 like they did, then they'd have no problem.... Make it make sense!

You the rules are A LOT more relaxed on AKFiles, so I can say whatever is on my mind without being banned as long as I don't bring up family.
 
WellArmed said:
Haha, there are more on AKFiles who are the same way. The kicker is all of them have SBRs, but think those that got a SBR for free are cheap, sold themselves out, would sell other gun owners out, and they are hoping that the ATF sticks it to us. Now if we gave the AFT and IRS $200 like they did, then they'd have no problem.... Make it make sense!

You the rules are A LOT more relaxed on AKFiles, so I can say whatever is on my mind without being banned as long as I don't bring up family.
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Sounds like my kind of place! 😎
 
10mmLife said:
It looks like PSA is embracing (pun intended) the brace ruling by sending out this email a little while ago.

View attachment 47139
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I wondered what would happen if someone purchased a braced pistol from PAA, and then the stay was reversed. Here is what I found on the ATF's website:

Final Rule 2021R-08F FAQ said:
Final Rule 2021R-08F
Frequently Asked Questions and SBA Compliance Guide (as of 02/13/2023)​

REGISTRATION AND OTHER COMPLIANCE OPTIONS
8. As an FFL, a pistol with a stabilizing brace arrived at my licensed premises after January 31st when the final rule took effect. What options do I now have to comply with the final rule?
• If at all possible, refuse delivery of the firearm or arrange return of the unopened delivery (via the delivering contract carrier), whereupon the original transferor must comply with the final rule.​

If the firearm was received and taken into inventory, the following options are provided:​
o Turn the firearm into your local ATF office.​
o Destroy the firearm. For more information go to How to Properly Destroy Firearms |​
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o Turn the firearm into your local ATF office.
o Destroy the firearm. For more information go to How to Properly Destroy Firearms |

Pffftttt! yeah right, that's gonna happen.
 
Hammer67 said:
That's from February. I don't see how you could legally be prevented from purchasing a braced pistol as of last Wed.
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I did not say anyone could not. That is from the ATF rule. The same rule that is currently under a nationwide injunction as of last Wednesday.

I'm pointing out what will happen to the braced pistols that are shipped to a FFL for transfer and are entered into their log book before the buyer has it transferred IF the nationwide injunction is overturned which is a possibility in the future.

For example only, If you @Hammer67 purchased a braced pistol from Palmetto State Armory today, they process and ship it out 5 days from form now (PSA isn't known for fast shipping), it takes a day or two to reach your LGS, your LGS receives your braced pistol and records it into their FFL log book, and that very same day a Judge overturns the nationwide injunction before you get to your LGS to do the transfer, the ATF is instructing your FFL to either turn your what is now an illegal SBR with a brace/stock on it into them OR for your LGS to destroy it completely instead of transferring it to you or shipping it back.
 
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WellArmed said:
I did not say anyone could not. That is from the ATF rule. The same rule that is currently under a nationwide injunction as of last Wednesday.

I'm pointing out what will happen to the braced pistols that are shipped to a FFL for transfer and are entered into their log book before the buyer has it transferred IF the nationwide injunction is overturned which is a possibility in the future.
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Yup, I understand. I'm just pointing out for clarity that it isn't currently valid.
 
Hammer67 said:
Yup, I understand. I'm just pointing out for clarity that it isn't currently valid.
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True but to be on the safe side and avoid any issues while this plays out for the next year or two, I personally would play it safe and buy a pistol without a brace on it, and then buy the brace separately. No official paper trail, worrying about transfers and ATF read tape, no worrying about orders possibly being canceled, no worrying about what the courts may do, no worries about the ATF retroactively going after those who purchased and have a braced pistol during the nationwide injunction if it's overturned, etc. That is just me for just for CYA purposes.

Plus if you purchased a braced pistol from the manufacturer after the forbearance period and the ATF prevails, you cannot just just take the brace off. The ATF will see it as the brace is a stock, so the firearm started out it's life from the manufacturer as a rifle and not a pistol thus it can never be in pistol format without an approved Form 1.

I don't believe the ATF will win, but who knows what will happen in the meantime or when it's all said and done.
 
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WellArmed said:
True but to be on the safe side and avoid any issues while this plays out for the next year or two, I would play it safe and buy a pistol without a brace on it, and then by the brace separately. No official paper trail, worrying about transfers and ATF read tape, no worrying about what the courts may do, no worries about the ATF retroactively going after those who purchased and have a braced pistol during the nationwide injunction if it's overturned, etc. That is just me for just to CYA purposes.
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I agree that's probably the wise way to go about it for the present. I'm not disagreeing with you on anything.
 
Even with the current injunction - and the "grace period" expired, personally I would probably not buy a braced pistol now. (as wellarmed stated above - pistol and brace separate would be the way to go.) However, even with the rule - the brace itself was never illegal - it was all about the configuration.
 
WellArmed said:
True but to be on the safe side and avoid any issues while this plays out for the next year or two, I personally would play it safe and buy a pistol without a brace on it, and then buy the brace separately. No official paper trail, worrying about transfers and ATF read tape, no worrying about orders possibly being canceled, no worrying about what the courts may do, no worries about the ATF retroactively going after those who purchased and have a braced pistol during the nationwide injunction if it's overturned, etc. That is just me for just for CYA purposes.

Plus if you purchased a braced pistol from the manufacturer after the forbearance period and the ATF prevails, you cannot just just take the brace off. The ATF will see it as the brace is a stock, so the firearm started out it's life from the manufacturer as a rifle and not a pistol thus it can never be in pistol format without an approved Form 1.

I don't believe the ATF will win, but who knows what will happen in the meantime or when it's all said and done.
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From what I have seen prior to the injunction there have been places selling braced pistols but they send you the brace separately to your home address. Others have simply been shipping them and keeping the brace.
 
SimonRL said:
From what I have seen prior to the injunction there have been places selling braced pistols but they send you the brace separately to your home address. Others have simply been shipping them and keeping the brace.
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That could be "Constructive Possession" prior to the injunction to the ATF though I doubt anyone would get caught or prosecuted unless it's a secondary charge to a more serious crime.

Can I possess a pistol and unattached “stabilizing brace”? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

An NFA firearm need not be assembled to be regulated as such. Whether a person may be in constructive possession of an NFA firearm depends on the facts of a particular case.
www.atf.gov www.atf.gov
 
Well, it's been 1 month, and no appeal (knock on wood...).

I printed a copy of the ruling and am keeping it in my range bag for now. 😉
 
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