KillerFord1977
SAINT
If you now gave me a $4Million free home to live in and no property tax forever in the Hartford area, I would still say “No thank you”. Middle CT has gone to the wayside. Rapidly becoming Detroit
Ayoob: Is It Time to Retire the 1911?
- Thread starter Mike H.
- Start date
Keystone19250
SAINT
Agreed.
Honorman
Elite
Having read the article I agree with the content. Having served in a counter terrorism unit for 22 years I can tell you that the 1911 served me well. During these years I carried Les Baer, Kimber, Springfield and Nighthawk brands. As part of our training we would fire 5000 to 10000 rounds per month. I maintained the recoil and magazine springs in good order changing them very often especially the recoil spring due to the high round count per month. I had an account with Wolff gun springs and would buy the large packs. I used 18.5 pound recoil springs as we used the HST 230 plus P round which resulted in 8 fatalities. Three of the shootings occurred shooting through vehicles to get to the target. I never experienced any failures with my 1911 models. I also used Wilson Combat magazines exclusively. Changing the springs is very important and I would not disregard that fact. In spite of the popularity for polymer guns especially in 9mm, the 1911 will continue to be a well suited weapon especially when the shooter is going on the offensive. If you have good ammo and place your rounds correctly you will not need to have a high capacity magazine which critics like to point out about the 1911. Me recollection of the shootings is that one magazine took care of the situation terminating the threat With rounds left over. The exception was the shootings through vehicles which required more ammo to defeat glass and metal. As with any weapon if you train well and maintain it in good working order you stack the deck on your side. Violence of action and placing the round to cause the greatest trauma is what wins gun fights. “Fortis Fortuna Juvat”
Honorman
Elite
Hank, I’m sorry to see that you having so much trouble with your Colt. I must say that Colt would never be my first choice in a 1911. Sometimes even with the best efforts problems can’t be corrected. You mentioned some other 1911’s that have served you well I would just stick with them and come to terms with the Colt. Remember when it comes to gun fighting you must deploy with a weapon that you absolutely have no reservations about. Mentally you have to be positive that the gun you have will serve you well. During my career I used a Les Baer for many years and it was fantastic. I hope you can perhaps get your money back for that Colt or be compensated in some other way. I wish you well and hope that Colt will do the right thing
Honorman
Elite
Wolfpack, During 38 year career I carried a 1911 and it served me very well. However, if you have been using Glock with great success then you should not change. I don’t know if you have been involved in a gunfight but I can tell you that having confidence in your weapon is absolutely essential. However, if you like the 45 round may I suggest the HK45 which had a great deal of influence from Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn. This gun has a lot of 1911 traits and is lighter with a 10 round magazine. With the right trigger group this gun is exceptional. This gun is what I used when mission parameters made this a better match than the 1911. Just a thought, I wish you the best.
Hey so question here/ thought. It’s the first thing I saw when I read this. With the fad of banning “high capacity magazines” (generally anything more then 10) I actually think the 1911 could gain in popularity at least in the states this occurs. Although I think the feds are pushing for this too. I doubt it comes to fruition but hell you never know. So if capacity being equal 10 rounds, it sort of levels the playing field between a 1911 and the polymer wonders. Do you think more people would switch to a 1911? I mean I imagine between weight and trigger, most would shoot it more accurately. They might still keep a p365 or other for ccw use and use 1911 for nightstand.
Recusant
Hellcat
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Found the article to be thoughtful and questioning with current gun choices. Small and capacity seems to be the gun of choice currently. I have several 1911's,compacts and sub compacts. I carry the Hellcat or a Plus primarily but will also carry my Full or Commander occasionally. If I could only have one pistol it would be my SA Professional 9mm.
HayesGreener
Ronin
If I were equipping a SWAT team today, they would get the SA Professional or other high end 1911 or SAO. When you absolutely positively gotta hit and make it count, a high end 1911 with good sights and quality ammo in the right hands will get the job done, with finality.
cjsolar6
Alpha
I have 4 Springfield Armory 1911's. One is a GI 45 ACP (Stainless), two others are Garrisons in 45 ACP (Stainless and Blued). My last Springfield is another Garrison (Stainless) in 9mm. I have quite a few more 1911's by various makers.I like every one of them. They are very easy to shoot. Of course you have many of the younger generatons that have been brought up with polymer guns and think that is the only way to go. They have their place, I have one(SCCY), but I stil prefer my 1911's. So,in my opinion, the 1911 will never be retired or put out to "pasture". The article was very informative and, as usual, Mr. Ayoob, did a super job.Hello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled “Ayoob: Is It Time to Retire the 1911?” and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/ayoob-is-it-time-to-retire-the-1911/.
Attachments
Keystone19250
SAINT
Hayes since you joined the forum everything you have offered on all subjects have been spot on and professional and although I agree with your attached post on the 1911 couldn’t this also be said for other handgun platforms in the right hands?
cjsolar6
Alpha
It is one of the easiest platforms to use. I have used and carried a 1911 for the past 24 years. The upper level 1911s make good carry guns. If the weight is of concern, they do make lw versions. You really don't have to spend alot of money to make it a carry gun. Most of the 1911s I have make good care guns just the way come from the factory. I do have a few that would benefit from better sights. I wouldn't change the sights either way.
Attachments
wolfpack076
Professional
I have a Wilson CQB and Dan Wesson Specialist> love them both but dept policy dictates that I have to carry a Glock 22 which I also like but given a choice I'd much rather either one of my 45's.
HayesGreener
Ronin
My post is in the context of equipping a SWAT team. Certainly there are a number of fine handguns that will suffice. Here is my thinking. Chances are that the SWAT officer will never fire that handgun other than on the range in training. And chances are that if precision fire is required, it will be done with a long gun. Commanders need confidence in their team and their capabilities. If the SWAT officer ever does need to fire that handgun in a crisis, that shot must be dead on target, missing is not an option. That kind of precision requires an exceptionally accurate pistol, and a shooter who has trained with it to an extraordinary degree of marksmanship. That means the officer is carrying the pistol that he has fired many thousands of times in training. Durability and sustained accuracy are a must. The Springfield Armory Professional was built to those extraordinary standards and tested, for the express purpose of providing the best handgun capability to emergency response teams. If I am equipping a SWAT team, I'm going to capitalize on the effort and money spent to develop the SA Professional for FBI HRT's.
KaniksuKidd
Alpha
Agree 100%. I've been shooting handguns for over 40 years. My experience is that the 1911 is the easiest of all to shoot WELL. With a good trigger and good sights big .451" holes appear at the aiming point as long as the shooter does what is supposed to be done. Mr. Browning made a handgun that is as good as a mechanical object can be for the intended purpose.
KMacK
Operator
Oka y. The 1911 platform is 111 years old (1911-2022). It still works. It is still dependable. It may not be as cheap as some of the plastic pistols out there, and it uses a somewhat dated cartridge, the Colt .45cal ACP. So... I have a 1911 in 9mm. I have one in .38 Super. They all three shoot, and they are all quite accurate (remember, these are combat pistols, not target guns by design). Another invention, the wheel, is quite a bit older and we still use it and plan on using it into the future. So, old isn't a reason to abandon, it's just proof that the design is good and reliable.
(I just wish it wasn't so damn expensive...)
(I just wish it wasn't so damn expensive...)
KMacK
Operator
As long as we keep using the wheel, there is no reason to abandon Browning's automatic pistol by Colt. Both are old and both still work reliably...they are just getting a bit expensive, that's all.Not in a million years!
HayesGreener
Ronin
Yeah, but are they running on renewable green electric energy?
Bassbob
Emissary
Dated cartridge ? Maybe not the new, popular choice, but then again, men aren't exactly the same as they were when we were young. Take that how you want. I got nothing against 9 mill. I got a few. Just bought another one. Still carry a .45 every day.