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Ayoob: Were We Wrong About the "Tactical Turtle"?

My natural pistol shooting stance is similar to what Mr. Ayoob describes here. And I am all but abandoning iron sights (probably because of the old man vision thing) and migrating to red dots. I still practice with irons, but it's not as pretty as my results with optics.

That said, when I took carbine training a couple of years ago, the "keep your head still and move the rifle up and into proper position" was pounded into my head.

Net-net, I think the head down position works with pistol shooting and not so much with rifles. And as for losing the dot while tactically turtling? Training, Holmes! For me, finding the dot is more about pressing out with the pistol and letting the dot "appear" where it's supposed to. With proper grip and stance (yes, even with head down), I find the dot ends up where it's supposed to be. Almost like that's the way it was designed ;)
 
Mr. Untactical said:
My natural pistol shooting stance is similar to what Mr. Ayoob describes here. And I am all but abandoning iron sights (probably because of the old man vision thing) and migrating to red dots. I still practice with irons, but it's not as pretty as my results with optics.

That said, when I took carbine training a couple of years ago, the "keep your head still and move the rifle up and into proper position" was pounded into my head.

Net-net, I think the head down position works with pistol shooting and not so much with rifles. And as for losing the dot while tactically turtling? Training, Holmes! For me, finding the dot is more about pressing out with the pistol and letting the dot "appear" where it's supposed to. With proper grip and stance (yes, even with head down), I find the dot ends up where it's supposed to be. Almost like that's the way it was designed ;)
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Couldn't agree more. Red dots are specifically designed for fast target acquisition and they work for me even while lying on my side in the mud behind a vtac. As for rifles, just watch all those heads-up guys when the stack starts moving. The gun and the head go down and forward as they shift into a steady movement.
 
Bassbob said:
I know guys who can shoot the eyes out of a June bug and also have the most improper grip and stance you’ve ever seen. Some of those old action shooters who make Jerry Miculek look like an amateur never even bring the gun up to their head. It’s like they will the bullet to the target with their mind. Everything ain’t for everybody.
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Amen Bob!
What’s “right” is what works.
 
KillerFord1977 said:
Post it, I’m white middle aged. Married 24 yrs. Ain’t going to see 💩 anyway 😬😝😝😝🥺🥺
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Thank you for the article, I've been trying to correct this stance for years, but I always revert back to my natural "turtle" stance, and with better results. I wanted to do what was correct, but I also wanted to do what worked better for me. Thank you for confirming my gut feeling was correct!
As far as finding the red dot, my experience has been different. I am right handed, I shoot right handed, and I always presumed my right eye was my dominant eye. In preparation for cataract surgery recently, yes that gives you a hint as to my stage in life, well, the Dr did a bunch of tests and she told me my left eye is my dominant eye. What?? I have always had to swing the barrel left or right to find the dot. I now know why, I was telling my right eye to look for the red dot, but my left eye was taking control and trying to find it first while I was bringing my weapon up to position.
 
Shooting 'head down' saved my eyesight. I was shooting my G17 at some really shoddy steel plates. I knew better, but... I'd already shot a couple of strings and was amid another when my ears started ringing. I thought my gun had blown up. As I'm looking down at my gun blood began pouring over my left eye. I took my shirt off and used it to wipe the blood away. A visit to the bathroom mirror showed a .25-inch diameter 'hole' two inches above my left eye, right at the hairline. Whatever hit me is still there and is large enough to be detected by a hand wand. If I'd been shooting 'Isosceles', I'd be blind in my left eye.
 
bc22wm said:
1st I had to read the article because I not only didn't have a clue what "tactical turtle" was, but I didn't suspect there was a clue. I bring my head down some, because that was the way I was taught. "Stick your head up son and someone will give you a third eye". (Dad when he started teaching me a whole bunch of stuff to prepare me for the coming race war. 1968 proved to him he was on the right track) I'm a big guy and anything I can do to make a smaller target is a plus.
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I concur. I was first taught to shoot by a Marine Gunny Sgt. in 1969 and learned that anything you do to reduce your cross section will increase your survivability.
 
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