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Critical Defense or Federal HST?

Nothing against HST, but I'm pretty satisfied with my Hornady in all my calibers (.380, .40, .45, and .223 [TAP LE ammo for my home defense AR]). I plan on adding 9mm & 10mm VERY soon. The reason why I opted to roll with the Hornady is because (at least in wintertime) people wear heavy clothing in multiple layers. The hollowpoint cavity can get clogged with fabric as it hits, which can impede the hydrostatic opening of the cavity as it penetrates. The ballistic tip in Hornady ammo avoids clogging while facilitating rapid expansion once it has penetrated the target. As for summertime ammo, I may well try out the HST and the Sig ammo to see what I like best.

Oh, and Hornady ammo also works great against PUBG skillets. ;)
 

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Epeeist said:
Not trying to be mean or pick a fight! I was genuinely curious as to rather or not you were making a joke. Assuming you're being serious and not just trying to "troll" folks like myself, my objections to the practice you were endorsing are as follows:

1. Point of Impact Shift: Different barrels and rifling patterns perform better with different bullet types, powders and overall lengths. While it might be a small difference going from 115 grain in one hollow point design with one powder to another, you are tolerance stacking by running multiple brands, bullet weights and configurations. This is maximizing your group spread from a mechanical accuracy point of view. That is irrespective of the shooter. You can lock the gun in a rest and see this effect.

Generally speaking, and this is very broad and weapon/shooter dependent, less recoil lowers POI, more recoil raises POI, within a given given bullet weight. Since bullet weight impacts recoil and slide energy, changing bullet weights from shot to shot exacerbates the effect. POI shift is also velocity dependent, so adding different burn rates of various powders with different bullet weights means you will be as inaccurate as mechanically possible in a given firearm.

2. Training: Irrespective of accuracy, changing the bullet weights and powders inside the magazine will result in every shot feeling different from the last. Consistent feedback is an important part of the muscle memory utilized in recoil control and learning how to drive a gun quickly from shot to shot and target to target. If your recoil impulse changes dramatically from shot to shot, you are making it more difficult to bring the gun back on target as quickly as possible in a given string. Its very difficult to find a shooting rhythm and ride the recoil if the recoil of the gun changes every shot.

3. Malfunction Inducement: By running your guns slide at different speeds and with different bullet shapes and different OAL in bullets, you are maximizing the situation where even a reliable handgun can choke up in feeding. Remember the shooter will also be giving different feedback to the gun with your grip via each shots recoil being different.

4. Gun Wu Wu: This last one is pretty unscientific, but I think most people who have shot one gun a lot will know where I am coming from. When you get used to one load and one firearm, you can "listen to the gun talk" during strings of fire. You don't need to see that you have fired your last shot, you feel the slide lock open. You know its getting time to clean it when the gun "tells" you its getting crunchy. You know immediately if you had a squib or some other issue because that shot felt different that the thousand or so before it. I know not everyone carries the same gun on duty day in and day out, or shoots tens of thousands of rounds a year in competition, but I don't know why you would rob yourself of the change to learn your guns "feel" by making it feel different every shot.
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Everything you just said is opinionated. I train with the load out I use. Because you or another shooter might not be acclimated with the sudden change in rounds doesn’t mean someone who does train for that isn’t. I’ve shot thousands of rounds of different premium loads at the same time thru mags never once had any malfunction in what you’re saying about slide speed changes. What you’re saying is a possible theoretical situation. I appreciate the information tho. Happy shooting 😄
 
I generally use Critical Defense 115gr 9mm, years ago, which I mean years ago, I carried Winchester Silver Tips, also I used to use the “dreaded” Black Talon when you could find it. I have been very satisfied with the Critical Defense I have had zero issues with it.
 
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I usually have HST on board. I also like Critical Defense and Gold Dots. They have all been accurate and reliable for me. I like that many manufactures are stepping up their game. Competition can be very good for the consumer.
 
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Do any of you remember when S&W made ammo.....I used there .38 special 158gr Nyclad in my old S&W model 15. The nyclad was a thin layer of nylon bonded over the soft lead bullet to help prevent leading in barrels. I used this ammo for self defense.


FYI, this was during the Bangor Punta Years when they owned S&W
Also a few years later, Federal brought out a similar ammo, it was also called Nyclad, and after a few years, it was pulled off the market, and if I remember right, banned cause it supposedly would go through bullet proof vests at that time.
 
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Annihilator said:
Do any of you remember when S&W made ammo.....I used there .38 special 158gr Nyclad in my old S&W model 15. The nyclad was a thin layer of nylon bonded over the soft lead bullet to help prevent leading in barrels. I used this ammo for self defense.


FYI, this was during the Bangor Punta Years when they owned S&W
Also a few years later, Federal brought out a similar ammo, it was also called Nyclad, and after a few years, it was pulled off the market, and if I remember right, banned cause it supposedly would go through bullet proof vests at that time.
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Nyclad... there is a blast from the past. I would like to think we are not older, just experienced. :)
 
I saw a review somewhere (Icant remember where) that the Speer short barreled ammo is really good. I think they tested some +P .38 out of a J-Frame and it got really good velocity and expansion in gelatin.
 
Currently I carry with Federal Guard Dog EFMJ loads. I've also carried (and still have in inventory) Critical Duty, but honestly I picked up the Guard Dog when a local shop/range was closing down this location, and liquidating inventory. I grabbed a couple boxes (50 rds total) it was so cheap, then I started researching it and was VERY pleasantly surprised by what I found. I ran a mag through the XDs and it was predictable, consistent, and manageable so it's my EDC round for now. USCCA did a nice review on it.
 
I use Hornady American Gunner 124 grain 9mm +p XTP in a couple of my carry pistols and Civil defense 50 grain 9mm in my Shield. Has anyone else used civil defense? It's a super light round that shoots at 2000fps with a really deep copper hollow point. Pretty interesting round.
 
Critical Defense, 9mm, 115 grain; the same weight as my range ammo. It cycles very well in my XD-S and the point of impact is dead on with point of aim. However, I do wonder about over penetration with this round. What are your thoughts?
 
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Big45XD said:
Everything you just said is opinionated. I train with the load out I use. Because you or another shooter might not be acclimated with the sudden change in rounds doesn’t mean someone who does train for that isn’t. I’ve shot thousands of rounds of different premium loads at the same time thru mags never once had any malfunction in what you’re saying about slide speed changes. What you’re saying is a possible theoretical situation. I appreciate the information tho. Happy shooting 😄
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So, let's try to be objective, then. :)

I would encourage you to shoot the gun off a rest or well-bagged, sighting in at the same POA at the 25 yard line. You will see POI changes with your ammo mix.

Similarly, I would encourage you to shoot toward scored/timed metrics, using both your current ammo mix as well as with magazines loaded with a single type of ammo, through-and-through. You will see significant differences in scoring.
 
I'll use anything that's in DocGKR's list. :)

https://primaryandsecondary.com/forum/index.php?threads/9mm-ammo-selection.4581/#post-28573
(complete write-up of his, as-hosted on ARFCOM: http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/self_defense_ammo_FAQ/)

The trick is that the individual shooter needs to vet any chosen ammo through his/her unique weapon and magazines.

Tolerance-stacking is a very real-world phenomenon, even in the case of modern defensive/duty-grade firearms and premium defensive/duty ammo, both of which are held to exacting tolerances and undergo comprehensive QA/QC.
 
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