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Effective Range of a Defensive Handgun

Jfal said:
I've whined about this here before, deepest apologies, but I don't have a public or private range within 50 miles of my home that allows a pistol on any range longer than 50 yards. The only one that allows them on a 50 yard range, the pistol MUST have a 5" barrel and be a "hunting" caliber larger than 9mm....whatever that means. And when new RO's are on duty, they usually forbid ANY pistols on the 50-yard range. Maybe I'll bring my braced SP5 this weekend and make a formal challenge. Except it's been raining with tornadoes every day for the last 2 weeks. Sorry for being pissy...
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I feel your pain but a suggestion. We use to shoot 50 yards on the Indiana LE course and the bullets don’t drop like many think at 50 (this was in the 40 and 45 years)

So suggestion like the B8 you simply have to shoot at smaller targets. On most B27’s or the Trans star 2 there is a small silhouette at 7 yards that’s suppose to simulate 25 the main thing is to practice where the front sight (or dot) covered as much target as it would at distance.

Other options is 3” sticky pads with a range plaster in the middle OR order off Amazon the 2 and 3” round sticker price tag Dave Spaulding uses those in class and they work great in his classes before he retired.

Unless your range is really really a hole retentive that shouldn’t be an issue!
 
Did the same thing with a Wichita bolt action single shot 14-15/16 barrel in 7-308 ( was still a wildcat then) a Wichita 10" break open barrel single shot in 30-30 & a Ruger super Blackhawk in 44 mag 10-1/2' barrel. Shot perfect 40 targets with both Wichita guns. 38 was the best I ever did with the Ruger. Target were chickens at 50 meters, pigs at 100, turkeys a 150 & rams at 200. All with open sights.
 
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I just got done with rifle quals. Today. It was hot. It was a little muggy. We were up in the hills where we could work the rifles from 3-200 yards. Part of our range time involved transitions so we had to bring out pistols ...like we wouldn't.

Anyways, after we actually did the qual portion, after a morning filled with sunburn and sweat, we had time to kill. So we decided to load up our Glocks; we are a Glock agency. Once topped off, with a spare mag to boot it was time to walk it back and see what we could do.

We worked off of a 3/4 sized rifle silhouette. We were allowed to shoot until we got a hit. Everyone did great out to the 75. Mostly of us were one shot/one hit. Most of us were using red dots. Of the 9 of us 7 could ring steel out to 120. Then it all went toes up. We ran out of known distance at that point, except for the 200 yard gong.

I had a mag and a half. They wanted us to use up the ammo. I tried. I really tried. With more than twenty rounds I managed to hit it three times. Dumb luck and Kentucky windage. Maybe a little Glock perfection amplified through a Holosun dot.

All in all pistols are not rifles, but they can reach out. Obviously the further out the slower the target probably needs to be moving. Bigger is also better. ;)
 
Hi,

Annihilator said:
Thought this was a pretty interesting article on effective range of a self defense gun, good read

gunmagwarehouse.com

Long Range Handguns: Yes, it's a Thing - The Mag Life

Do your long range handgun shooting skills matter? Will you ever need them? Here's why it matters and how to sharpen your long range skills.
gunmagwarehouse.com gunmagwarehouse.com
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I need that skill. Thanks for reminding me. ;)

Now I guess I'll just have to practice more. Oh darn. :LOL:


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
Jfal said:
I've whined about this here before, deepest apologies, but I don't have a public or private range within 50 miles of my home that allows a pistol on any range longer than 50 yards. The only one that allows them on a 50 yard range, the pistol MUST have a 5" barrel and be a "hunting" caliber larger than 9mm....whatever that means. And when new RO's are on duty, they usually forbid ANY pistols on the 50-yard range. Maybe I'll bring my braced SP5 this weekend and make a formal challenge. Except it's been raining with tornadoes every day for the last 2 weeks. Sorry for being pissy...
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Just out of curiosity. What is the rationale behind this? Not that anyone needs a reason for being stupid or making stupid rules anymore.
 
ECS686 said:
Ok I’m just asking because they are worried about them hitting steel targets? That would be a same concern with rifles unless the steel is not angled properly.

Am I missing something? And unless you have concrete or rocks it won’t ricochet off the ground
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Yep, it will.

Pistol bullets that drop short will come in at a fairly shallow angle, which increases the chances of a ricochet—even off soft ground.

I’ve seen pistol bullets ricochet off of a plowed field.
 
ECS686 said:
Ok I’m just asking because they are worried about them hitting steel targets? That would be a same concern with rifles unless the steel is not angled properly.

Am I missing something? And unless you have concrete or rocks it won’t ricochet off the ground
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My primary outdoor range has very sandy gravel between the shooting benches and the targets. A friendly RO told me years ago that they received a complaint from a homeowner 1/2-1/3 mile behind the berm of shots hitting their house. When standing on the 25-yard range, anyone over 5' tall with their target frame moved up to 7 yards (min shoot distance allowed on this range)...the bullet passes through the target and hits the ground before the berm, and can ricochet over the berm (hence the complaint). Anyone 6' or taller now must shoot pistols SITTING on the 25yd range with a target frame closer than 25 yards. With a glancing blow as described, bullets will ricochet where one thinks they shouldn't.
 
bc22wm said:
Someone a lot smarter than me, and that wouldn't take much, would have to explain that more. As it stands now JMHO Cowpies.
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Handgun rounds can ricochet from hard packed ground. It can happen with rifles too but not as likely that a rifle shooter will hit the ground in front of the target. The further back you are from the berm, the more likely that will occur. Intermediate low berms can help stop those ricochets. I have seen many handgun shooters hit the ground before the target. In fact I have seen a range shut down because ricochets were getting over the berm. You can't deny physics and geometry.
 
Jfal said:
My primary outdoor range has very sandy gravel between the shooting benches and the targets. A friendly RO told me years ago that they received a complaint from a homeowner 1/2-1/3 mile behind the berm of shots hitting their house. When standing on the 25-yard range, anyone over 5' tall with their target frame moved up to 7 yards (min shoot distance allowed on this range)...the bullet passes through the target and hits the ground before the berm, and can ricochet over the berm (hence the complaint). Anyone 6' or taller now must shoot pistols SITTING on the 25yd range with a target frame closer than 25 yards. With a glancing blow as described, bullets will ricochet where one thinks they shouldn't.
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It wouldn’t have hit the ground and ricochet like that. It’s a know issue that people that build
Houses in proximity make complaints.

If thier house was struck Sounds to me someone shot over a berm of had an AD at 45 degrees

But if the RO was told that or range had that in their head they had that in their head!
HayesGreener said:
Handgun rounds can ricochet from hard packed ground. It can happen with rifles too but not as likely that a rifle shooter will hit the ground in front of the target. The further back you are from the berm, the more likely that will occur. Intermediate low berms can help stop those ricochets. I have seen many handgun shooters hit the ground before the target. In fact I have seen a range shut down because ricochets were getting over the berm. You can't deny physics and geometry.
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What I have seen the bullet follows the ground (unless they hit a huge rock/brick concrete etc) so if they are getting out it’s a case it struck more than ground white rock and pea gravel.
 
ECS686 said:
It wouldn’t have hit the ground and ricochet like that. It’s a know issue that people that build
Houses in proximity make complaints.

If thier house was struck Sounds to me someone shot over a berm of had an AD at 45 degrees

But if the RO was told that or range had that in their head they had that in their head!

What I have seen the bullet follows the ground (unless they hit a huge rock/brick concrete etc) so if they are getting out it’s a case it struck more than ground white rock and pea gravel.
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Except that bullets can, and do, ricochet off bare dirt, no rock involved.

Again, it involves the shallow angle handgun bullets will typically strike at.
 
ECS686 said:
It wouldn’t have hit the ground and ricochet like that. It’s a know issue that people that build
Houses in proximity make complaints.

If thier house was struck Sounds to me someone shot over a berm of had an AD at 45 degrees

But if the RO was told that or range had that in their head they had that in their head!

What I have seen the bullet follows the ground (unless they hit a huge rock/brick concrete etc) so if they are getting out it’s a case it struck more than ground white rock and pea gravel.
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We can agree to disagree. I will err on the side of caution. Besides, me arguing with my range about it will just get me tossed out. Their rules, I follow them. If you want to come come argue with them, let me know, I'd love to see that.
 
Jfal said:
We can agree to disagree. I will err on the side of caution. Besides, me arguing with my range about it will just get me tossed out. Their rules, I follow them. If you want to come come argue with them, let me know, I'd love to see that.
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I get it you and I are at our ranges whim. I’m just discussing they are off base with their claims. But their range their rules unfortunately like ranges that don’t want to allow drawing.

I know a national Ramgemaster staff instructor that was teaching a shotgun class and someone not in the class but affiliated with the range took issue because class participants (most LEO’s) had sidearms on and this knucklehead took offense claiming that was unsafe.

My buddy got it smoothed out with the range President but you sometimes have “that guy” At ranges you have to deal with it
 
ECS686 said:
I get it you and I are at our ranges whim. I’m just discussing they are off base with their claims. But their range their rules unfortunately like ranges that don’t want to allow drawing.

I know a national Ramgemaster staff instructor that was teaching a shotgun class and someone not in the class but affiliated with the range took issue because class participants (most LEO’s) had sidearms on and this knucklehead took offense claiming that was unsafe.

My buddy got it smoothed out with the range President but you sometimes have “that guy” At ranges you have to deal with it
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The range I was referring to also does not allow drawing from a holster ;), or more than 1 shot/second.
 
HayesGreener said:
Handgun rounds can ricochet from hard packed ground. It can happen with rifles too but not as likely that a rifle shooter will hit the ground in front of the target. The further back you are from the berm, the more likely that will occur. Intermediate low berms can help stop those ricochets. I have seen many handgun shooters hit the ground before the target. In fact I have seen a range shut down because ricochets were getting over the berm. You can't deny physics and geometry.
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OKAY. Thanks. Sometimes my reading comprehension ain't up snuff. I thought someone was trying to say handgun bullets are more likely to ricochet than rifle bullets, when all the time it's the jerk behind the trigger. ;)
As much as we may not like it, we really can't blame ranges for being overly cautious. The entire country is sue happy, with no consequences for filing a frivolous lawsuit, and being connected to GUNS :unsure: The range has got two strikes against them already.:mad:
 
I will add my range so my classes at (they require 1 million in insurance if you rent a bay or do any paid classes outside of friends and family stuff) is pretty open on allowing anyone to do whatever (drawing etc)

The biggest issue is don’t shoot the 22 LR or pistol steel with rifle rounds, have the targets within 10 feet of the berm (other than matches or a class) and pick up after yourself and don’t destroy property

We have just north of 400 members and about once a month and mail goes out don’t do X,y or z because somebody did. They get kicked out when caught.
 
ECS686 said:
I will add my range so my classes at (they require 1 million in insurance if you rent a bay or do any paid classes outside of friends and family stuff) is pretty open on allowing anyone to do whatever (drawing etc)

The biggest issue is don’t shoot the 22 LR or pistol steel with rifle rounds, have the targets within 10 feet of the berm (other than matches or a class) and pick up after yourself and don’t destroy property

We have just north of 400 members and about once a month and mail goes out don’t do X,y or z because somebody did. They get kicked out when caught.
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There always seems to be some knucklehead doing something stupid and then a new rule...
 
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