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Firearms Training Record...

Trebor657

Trebor657

Operator
I recently attended a seminar sponsored be USCCA and Delta Defense entitled "Should I Shoot?" It consisted mainly of basics such as situational awareness, use of deadly force and such. The discussion turned to what your counsel would benefit from if the incident went to trial. One of the things that was said was that everyone should keep a written record of any training that they participate in. The attorney stated to not only keep track of your formal training (classes, seminars and so on) but even training you perform on your own such as range practice, dry fire practice or drills and such. It was said that this record would be a benefit to you during investigation and at trial if it gets to that point.

This got me to thinking...I wonder how many folks are diligent about keeping such a record? I do some type of training, both formal and non-formal regularly, but until recently, did not keep a written record of it. I think this is solid advice and have recently began keeping records. The attorney stated it does not have to be an elaborate record but should include the date, form of training, in person or online (yes this counts), length of training session and such. Just wondered if anyone keeps records of their firearms training?
 
Old_Me said:
no, i don't only log my time at the range or the club, but not any specific training or shooting practice..

and this from the "armed lawyers", they claim that can work against you
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I figure it can't hurt to keep a record regardless of what the "experts" think...if the defense counsel doesn't think it beneficial, that's fine too...I can see both sides of this, but I think alot of it depends on you and various factors...one of questions posed to the audience was related to your purpose of deadly force...most stated to stop the threat...one guy said it was his intent to kill the aggressor....the attorney said leave me your name after class, I don't ever want to be your attorney...takes all kinds I guess...
 
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Hi,

I keep a pretty meticulous log of all my training and practice, even my dry fire laser practice. I admit that I'm behind just a couple of practice sessions but I'll get caught up before my next range trip this week. I have yet to decide if this would be a help or hindrance in court. I'll need to hear a few more legal opinions. The argument can go both ways.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
I would say any formal training from vetted instructors (Which there would be a database on that) Like Range Master Dave Spaulding, Gunsite etc however they can provide (or should) expert witness testimony on your behalf.

I wouldn’t however record or bring up any war mongering training from the town gun guy that has a range and runs training classes way above his knowledge skill or abilities.

Many companies want to sell you stuff especially some self defense coverage companies so consider where your info on what they suggest (do they suggest something they sell etc)
 
Well, I guess this means that the argument about changing things/adding things on your EDC being brought up in court against you is now viable? Trigger jobs, barrels, Red Dots, etc.?
 
Onewolf426 said:
Well, I guess this means that the argument about changing things/adding things on your EDC being brought up in court against you is now viable? Trigger jobs, barrels, Red Dots, etc.?
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That is a dead horse. That alone will not cause you to get charges alone. If a modification makes your gun so easy to shoot you shoot or have a AD when you are not justified would be a problem.

As a trainer (both retired agency and civilian doing Range Master and several other courses) the biggest issue why I recommend against MOST mods is more times than not they make your gun less dependable. When a gun in a match or training class failed (be it Glock M&P or whatever) fails it’s 90% non OEM aftermarket trigger, barrel etc or YouTube trigger jobs the other is poor care/maintenance or bad reloaded ammo.

And like Bass stated look at what they sell. I saw their fear mongering hype and how they pay NRA instructors a price per head to allow them a 20 minute spell in their class. Nothing shady about that!
 
It's a nothing burger. The more training with proofs of competence the better.
 

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ECS686 said:
That is a dead horse. That alone will not cause you to get charges alone. If a modification makes your gun so easy to shoot you shoot or have a AD when you are not justified would be a problem.

As a trainer (both retired agency and civilian doing Range Master and several other courses) the biggest issue why I recommend against MOST mods is more times than not they make your gun less dependable. When a gun in a match or training class failed (be it Glock M&P or whatever) fails it’s 90% non OEM aftermarket trigger, barrel etc or YouTube trigger jobs the other is poor care/maintenance or bad reloaded ammo.

And like Bass stated look at what they sell. I saw their fear mongering hype and how they pay NRA instructors a price per head to allow them a 20 minute spell in their class. Nothing shady about that!
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Yeah, I know. Just had to highlight the ridiculousness. Of course this is a plug for USCCA.
 
Hi,

HayesGreener said:
It's a nothing burger. The more training with proofs of competence the better.
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That is my thinking. I.E. I'm not a "gun nut" but a trained and qualified, law abiding, responsible citizen. Of course prosecutors will try to spin any evidence in the worst possible direction in order to get a conviction.

But if your training logs also show that you've taken classes discussing de-escalation and avoidance techniques this should work in your favor. In some of my training sessions the instructor would play the part of the aggressor, having a "conversation" to see how the student would react in various situations. "Using your words" takes a little practice, staying calm and reasonable right up until the time the SHTF.

I also use my log to review my training, to see how long it's been since I've practiced a certain skill or remind me of a specific procedure or drill. It's also good to keep track of how many rounds are going through each firearm, which types of ammo work best, which magazines are developing issues, etc.

God forbid, should I ever be involved in an incident I will let my attorney know that a training log is available then let them decide if it's appropriate to my defense. I have no doubt that all social media, including posts to this forum, could be subpoenaed and used in court. Let's be careful out there. ;)


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
Onewolf426 said:
Yeah, I know. Just had to highlight the ridiculousness. Of course this is a plug for USCCA.
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Anyone can make whatever company and sell whatever just for myself as someone that has been under Federal Inquiry and been on that stand some of these self defense companies “examples” are more of what not to do. Specifically with one little video the dude did everything wrong. Don’t intervene in others civil matters especially with your firearm and you usually won’t get arrested.

The older I get the smaller my circle gets that I’m going to risk my liberty for. Just how it is self defense company behind me or not!
 
Hi,

ECS686 said:
Anyone can make whatever company and sell whatever just for myself as someone that has been under Federal Inquiry and been on that stand some of these self defense companies “examples” are more of what not to do. Specifically with one little video the dude did everything wrong. Don’t intervene in others civil matters especially with your firearm and you usually won’t get arrested.
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Indeed, we need to show great digression and discernment. This falls under the umbrella of "situational awareness and avoidence". Don't be in stupid places at stupid times doing stupid things with stupid people.

ECS686 said:
The older I get the smaller my circle gets that I’m going to risk my liberty for. Just how it is self defense company behind me or not!
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Yes, self defense and defense of loved ones. Sometimes it's better just to be a good witness.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
HayesGreener said:
1. Know the law pertaining to firearms and use of force
2. Don't be stupid
3. If your state does not have an immunity law, talk to your legislators
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Tom Givens in the Range Master classes has a great explanation.

The 5 A’s

Acceptance…bad things can and will happen to you

Awareness….be aware of your surroundings

Avoidance….obviously go the other way and if you think you need to gun up or add another magazine to go there maybe you shouldn’t go!

Action…even if you do everything right revert to Acceptance and you found yourself in a bad situation no fault of your own
Action well time to get busy doing what needs done to survive

And Aftermath ….Be prepared for a lengthy police intervention and or court issue and handcuff even if you were 110% legal it never hardly ever happens like TV and the movies where you are immediately thanked and allowed to go home!
 
Old_Me said:
no, i don't only log my time at the range or the club, but not any specific training or shooting practice..

and this from the "armed lawyers", they claim that can work against you

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Does anyone have a BEWARE OF DOG sign on their fence? If you are the home owners attorney and someone gets bit it is a plus for defense. As in it serves as a warning. If you are the attorney for the person that got bit you can use it against the home owner claiming he knew the dog was dangerous. So does the sign work for you or against you.? Does your training records work for you or against you. And as the old saying goes, Inquiring minds want to know.
 
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