jarhead127
Alpha
Nice clean look at the muzzle end!
First Look: Springfield 1911 DS Prodigy 9mm
- Thread starter Mike H.
- Start date
jarhead127
Alpha
I think the folks that are writing off the Prodigy are making a mistake. Trust me, I hear yah and agree, it's had it's problems and I wish it were tested more extensively before release. But, if I told yah everything I wished for that would be at or near the bottom of my list. I own a Sig 365 and 365XL Romeo Zero. Those had a gang of problems when first released and look at them now, exceptional pistols.
You can tell the moment you start shooting the Prodigy you've got something special in your hands. That's why I endured the initial disappointment and worked with the pistol until now that it runs flawlessy. So yeah, I think it was a mistake for SA to release this pistol before they had the bugs out. But if you discount the gun because of the stories you've heard and not your own experience with it, that mistake is on you. not them!
You can tell the moment you start shooting the Prodigy you've got something special in your hands. That's why I endured the initial disappointment and worked with the pistol until now that it runs flawlessy. So yeah, I think it was a mistake for SA to release this pistol before they had the bugs out. But if you discount the gun because of the stories you've heard and not your own experience with it, that mistake is on you. not them!
I have a Prodigy 5 inch. It's a good gun to get people into the 2011 world. I haven't had any issues with the gun after 3000 rounds. Only thing I did was just to oil and clean after 1000 rounds. Maybe I just got a good one who know. I did have the slide hang up here and there on the disconnector, but that went away after the initial 1000 rounds. One thing I HATE about this gun is the loaded chamber indicator. It CAKES the red dot with residue. I have to clean the thing every 200-300 rounds just to see out of it. I have other guns with loaded chamber indicator and never had this. Maybe because rest of the guns are Holosun and Prodigy has on the Hex Dragonly, but either way SUPER annoying.
I did shoot different variations of Staccato a week ago. They are just better. Is it $800 to $1300 better? Probably not, but man they shot nice. I plan on picking up a Staccato C2 as an EDC. The Prodigy 4.25 is definitely heavier than the C2 and weighs about the same as the 5 inch Prodigy.
I know there are a lot of people shitting on Prodigy and I'm sure they are having issues. But, seems like a lot of people are having good time with it too.
Definitely has its place in the world of 2011. Yes, first release has issues. But, 2011s are just finicky to begin with. I'm sure Springfield will iron out issues as time goes. But, don't expected to be a Staccato or Atlas. There is just no way Springfield can hand fit the Prodigy in production.
I did shoot different variations of Staccato a week ago. They are just better. Is it $800 to $1300 better? Probably not, but man they shot nice. I plan on picking up a Staccato C2 as an EDC. The Prodigy 4.25 is definitely heavier than the C2 and weighs about the same as the 5 inch Prodigy.
I know there are a lot of people shitting on Prodigy and I'm sure they are having issues. But, seems like a lot of people are having good time with it too.
Definitely has its place in the world of 2011. Yes, first release has issues. But, 2011s are just finicky to begin with. I'm sure Springfield will iron out issues as time goes. But, don't expected to be a Staccato or Atlas. There is just no way Springfield can hand fit the Prodigy in production.
The issues I've been reading about that people are having with the Prodigy do not seem, to me, to be issues of a lack of hand fitting. In fact, where hand fitment would apply, the Prodigy is reportedly very good. E.g. slide to frame fit.
The issues I've read about are things like too soft a recoil spring, and a chamber that is not reamed deeply enough and not the correct taper. I'm not a gunsmith, but those don't sound like issues that would be addressed by hand fitment. That seems like basic design and/or manufacturing. I also read of an issue with the barrel link not being long enough (IIRC) and I guess that might be something that one would normally expect hand fitment for. I don't know.
I hope all the issues are getting fixed. More the 2011, the better. Would be nice to see more affordable 2011 platforms.
I've had a 2011 since the late '90s. To be honest, I'm kinda over them. They are the top dog for certain divisions in USPSA competition. For now. Otherwise, I feel like they are kinda outdated. Mainly, by virtue of being designed around 45 ACP and thus being bigger/bulkier than what is ideal for 9mm.
I am much more interested in newer designs that keep the best of the 1911/2011 (i.e. the trigger) and improve on the rest.
I REALLY want a complete set of Wilson Combat SFX9/SFT9s. A 5" for shooting in USPSA and IDPA matches. A 4" for EDC. And a 3.25" for EDC when the 4" is too big.
The Wilson X9 series is a double stack 9mm with a 1911-compatible trigger and thumb safety. I.e. a modern version of the 2011. It keeps the best parts of a 2011, but then improves on it by being less bulky in the hand, because it was specifically designed around 9mm, and it eliminates the beavertail grip safety, making it more reliable (i.e. less chance of a rushed, bad grip resulting in a failure to fire).
The Dan Wesson DWX is similar and I do wish that project would be revived. It's also a double stack 9mm (and a .40 version). Also less bulky in the hand than any 2011. But, different than the WC X9 in that it mates a 1911-style top end to a CZ-style grip/frame and uses standard CZ magazines.
Innovation like what those represent is awesome. The 2011 platform is old and - to ME - out of date. I don't really see much reason to want more 2011 guns out on the market. I want to see more NEW designs, like the WC X9 and DW DWX. And, in particular, ones that are more affordable. The WC is just stupid expensive. The DWX promised to be much more affordable, but was killed by COVID.
Hammer67
Professional
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how a 9mm 2011 is "designed around a 45ACP and therefore bulkier than it needs to be." The grip on my Prodigy is 1.28" - no wider than any other typical double-stack pistol, and thinner than some. The slide is .92" - hardly bulky compared to a number of other double-stacks. While the origins of the 2011 are obviously in the 1911 design, the entire magazine and grip are not designed around the .45ACP at all. What part is unecessarily bulky?
As far as the weight, yeah, it's hefty, because it's an all-steel gun. But in that sense, it's no heavier than any other all-steel gun I own. That said, I'd love to see an alloy frame version that brings the weight down to 30-32oz or so. I'm hoping we see a "carry" version of the Prodigy some day.
The SFX9s are certainly sweet though, and a bit slimmer and lighter than the average 2011, no argument there. But you're also talking about a handbuilt gun that costs twice as much.
As far as the weight, yeah, it's hefty, because it's an all-steel gun. But in that sense, it's no heavier than any other all-steel gun I own. That said, I'd love to see an alloy frame version that brings the weight down to 30-32oz or so. I'm hoping we see a "carry" version of the Prodigy some day.
The SFX9s are certainly sweet though, and a bit slimmer and lighter than the average 2011, no argument there. But you're also talking about a handbuilt gun that costs twice as much.
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Interesting point of view.
HansGruber
Ronin
I've had a 2011 since the late '90s. To be honest, I'm kinda over them. They are the top dog for certain divisions in USPSA competition. For now. Otherwise, I feel like they are kinda outdated. Mainly, by virtue of being designed around 45 ACP and thus being bigger/bulkier than what is ideal for 9mm.
I am much more interested in newer designs that keep the best of the 1911/2011 (i.e. the trigger) and improve on the rest.
I REALLY want a complete set of Wilson Combat SFX9/SFT9s. A 5" for shooting in USPSA and IDPA matches. A 4" for EDC. And a 3.25" for EDC when the 4" is too big.
The Wilson X9 series is a double stack 9mm with a 1911-compatible trigger and thumb safety. I.e. a modern version of the 2011. It keeps the best parts of a 2011, but then improves on it by being less bulky in the hand, because it was specifically designed around 9mm, and it eliminates the beavertail grip safety, making it more reliable (i.e. less chance of a rushed, bad grip resulting in a failure to fire).
The Dan Wesson DWX is similar and I do wish that project would be revived. It's also a double stack 9mm (and a .40 version). Also less bulky in the hand than any 2011. But, different than the WC X9 in that it mates a 1911-style top end to a CZ-style grip/frame and uses standard CZ magazines.
Innovation like what those represent is awesome. The 2011 platform is old and - to ME - out of date. I don't really see much reason to want more 2011 guns out on the market. I want to see more NEW designs, like the WC X9 and DW DWX. And, in particular, ones that are more affordable. The WC is just stupid expensive. The DWX promised to be much more affordable, but was killed by COVID.
My X9 EDC is one of my favorite 9mm’s. Carries well, incredibly accurate, runs like a champ.
10/10, do recommend.
Am I mistaken? Is a 2011 frame for 9mm a different size than a 2011 frame for a 45?
As far as I know, a 2011 frame is a 2011 frame, whether you choose to build a 9 with it or a 45.
In which case, the frame (grip part) is big enough (i.e. wide enough AND long enough) to hold a 45 magazine (or a 38 Super mag, for that matter), even if you only use it for 9mm.
If it were designed around a 9mm, it could be slimmer AND shorter (front to back) - like the WC X9 frame is.
That's what I mean.
HansGruber
Ronin
You are correct; a .45 and a 9mm 2011 have the same size frame (as do a .40, 10mm, .38 Super, and every other caliber a 2011 comes in)…just like every TRUE 1911 has the same size frame, no matter what caliber (from 9mm to .50GI).
Oh, and also, I didn't say anything at all about weight.
And, when the DWX was announced the retail pricing had it right at the same price as a Prodigy. So, yeah, the SFX9 is hand built and costs in the same ball park as a hand built 2011.
I want a pistol like the DWX, that is innovate and modern, and priced like the Prodigy is.
Or, another way of putting it would be: The Prodigy would be MUCH more appealing to me if it brought something new to the table, other than just a lower price tag. Springfield had a chance to be what Dan Wesson was trying to be (before COVID screwed over DW). But, Springfield didn't. They could have been a leader. Instead, they joined #metoo with a gun that is lower cost but also, it appears, lower quality.
Doing the same thing as someone else, but at a lower cost and with lower quality is nothing special. What is special is when you can do the same thing as someone else, at a lower cost, but with equal or better quality. What is special is doing something that is actually BETTER than what everyone else is doing. Even more special if you can do it at a lower cost as well.
The X9 series is special because it's better. It's an improvement on the 2011. The DWX would have been REALLY special, by being an improvement on the 2011 AND at a lower cost (meaning, lower than any 2011 out at the time the DWX was announced).
Hammer67
Professional
Gotcha. So sure, you could put a .45 mag into the same frame with reduced capacity (or a .38 Super or a 40 S&W or whatever...). The 2011 frame dimensions are capable of accomodating just about any middle-of-the-road pistol caliber. I understand that it could be made a little slimmer/narrower in terms of grip depth, but in every other dimension, I just don't see how it is "bulky" in comparison to any other typical double-stack pistol.
Me too, and probably about 10,000 other people would agree. I've said many times that it's a real shame they shelved the DWX project. I think it would have been a very good seller, and there was clearly a lot of enthusiasm for it. I honestly don't understand what is going on at CZ/Colt/DW these days, and I don't think it's all just about Covid, but that's a whole separate topic.
While I can't confirm this, I suspect that one of the reasons the DWX got put on the backburner is because they realized they couldn't really pull it off at the MSRP that they had announced. I think in the end it would have been/will be a more expensive gun than initially advertised. If it ever happens, I'm betting MSRP will be more like $17-1800+. Which is still not a bad price if it delivers, but I'm skeptical we'll ever see it, regardless.
I don't disagree with you, but I think that's also a pretty tall order. Doing something at a lower cost, that is of equal or better quality AND brings something new to the table is a bit of a unicorn. But hey, it could happen. In the meantime, I have a reasonably priced 2011 that runs great and shoots very nicely, so I have nothing to complain about.
SimonRL
Hellcat
That must be why there are so many other $1500 2011s on the market.
HansGruber
Ronin
I think that’s a fair assessment.
That being said, and upon consideration…
I’ll hold out for a Staccato.
Reasons: all the MIM in the Prodigy.
I’d prefer tool steel in my fire control parts, which the Staccato has; and, it’s the same money (or more) if I’d upgrade a Prodigy.
It’s my personal bugaboo, but there it is.
Hammer67
Professional
Out of curiosity, I just measured the grip depth (front to back) of a few of my 9mm pistols with a pair of digital calipers, at the widest point:
Sig P226: 2.18"
CZ SP-01: 2.16"
Sig P320 Legion X-Carry: 2.14"
CZ P-07: 2.20"
Prodigy: 2.14"
Of course, that's just at the widest point for each grip, and some of the examples above taper toward the top of the grip and thus may feel narrower, where the 2011 stays pretty straight all the way from top to bottom. But still, the difference is not as great as some might think.
Sig P226: 2.18"
CZ SP-01: 2.16"
Sig P320 Legion X-Carry: 2.14"
CZ P-07: 2.20"
Prodigy: 2.14"
Of course, that's just at the widest point for each grip, and some of the examples above taper toward the top of the grip and thus may feel narrower, where the 2011 stays pretty straight all the way from top to bottom. But still, the difference is not as great as some might think.
HansGruber
Ronin
I’ll have to caliper my X9 when I get home.
Hammer67
Professional
Please do. I'll be curious to see how it compares to the other examples above.
Why are 2011s finicky? I'm not sure what a 2011 is, is a double stack Para ordnance P-14 a 2011 I've never had a problem with it since I bought it in 1993 Does anyone know what makes a double stack 1911 a 2011? I'm ignorant.