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Florida Constitutional Carry

HayesGreener

HayesGreener

Ronin
Florida is on the fast track for constitutional carry. The first bill was entered Monday and there is already much gnashing of teeth and renting of garments from the Left.

Up until this law is enacted, concealed carry in Florida requires a license, which requires a background investigation and proof of some safety training.

I have been an instructor for 50+ years and trained many for various licenses. When doing the concealed weapons course I was impressed by the misconceptions among students about law, and utter lack of knowledge of firearms safety and use. Of course it was my job to correct that.

Now that the license is going away, which in my view is a good thing in the context of the 2nd Amendment, there is to be no training requirement.

Firearm safety and knowledge of the law are individual responsibilities. However, with no training my concern is over increased negligent discharges or inappropriate use of firearms by unfettered arming.

For those states that have historically had constitutional carry, what are your thoughts?
 
HayesGreener said:
Florida is on the fast track for constitutional carry. The first bill was entered Monday and there is already much gnashing of teeth and renting of garments from the Left.

Up until this law is enacted, concealed carry in Florida requires a license, which requires a background investigation and proof of some safety training.

I have been an instructor for 50+ years and trained many for various licenses. When doing the concealed weapons course I was impressed by the misconceptions among students about law, and utter lack of knowledge of firearms safety and use. Of course it was my job to correct that.

Now that the license is going away, which in my view is a good thing in the context of the 2nd Amendment, there is to be no training requirement.

Firearm safety and knowledge of the law are individual responsibilities. However, with no training my concern is over increased negligent discharges or inappropriate use of firearms by unfettered arming.

For those states that have historically had constitutional carry, what are your thoughts?
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Those fears have proved largely unfounded here. Of course there’s always outliers.
Last week some dude down the road from me got brought up on charges for shooting at someone who was driving away in his car which they had just stolen. His wife told the police he fired warning shots but when they recovered the vehicle there were 3 bullet holes in it. My county is ridiculously pro gun but you can’t just shoot at people who are fleeing and not a threat.
 
Bassbob said:
Those fears have proved largely unfounded here. Of course there’s always outliers.
Last week some dude down the road from me got brought up on charges for shooting at someone who was driving away in his car which they had just stolen. His wife told the police he fired warning shots but when they recovered the vehicle there were 3 bullet holes in it. My county is ridiculously pro gun but you can’t just shoot at people who are fleeing and not a threat.
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Yes I had a number of students who thought you could shoot tresspassers, gas siphoners, prowlers, etc. Street law is usually wrong
 
Years ago a good friend bought a condo in Naples. When he went to the police to apply for his concealed weapons license the police chief told him until his license was granted to be sure a wear a fanny pack. When he asked "why" the chief said that if a potential robber sees the fanny pack and had to thinks twice about the possibility of an armed victim he would probably keep going. So the more states that have constitutional carry the possibility for more criminals to have to worry about attacking an armed victim. In Oklahoma the gun haters were screaming that blood would be running in the streets which hasnt happened in any state adopting concealed carry. BUT to Hayes point absolutely its scary having people with out a real knowledge of the law. And also not being even close to proficient with the gun they are carrying.
 
When I did the required cc schooling the academic part was fine, but the shooting qualification by some was, "I don't want these people around me or my family, period" as I watched them handle a firearm. Unfortunately some are school teachers that my kids had and are still a part of the administration. Hopefully none are having a firearm at the school! Believe me, I voiced my facts of the nature (not opinion)! My kids have better firearm safety and knowledge than those idiots do! The untrained and lackies of firearms will get people killed unnecessarily!
 
Ohio just got it this summer, while I don’t have a problem with it, I still think for anyone to carry, you need some kind of training, as for open carry, it’s allowed here also, I don’t do it, to me, it’s just showing off, you know hey I’m carrying a gun, but this is just my thoughts
 
Annihilator said:
Ohio just got it this summer, while I don’t have a problem with it, I still think for anyone to carry, you need some kind of training, as for open carry, it’s allowed here also, I don’t do it, to me, it’s just showing off, you know hey I’m carrying a gun, but this is just my thoughts
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Yes, you SHOULD be trained before handling a firearm and you SHOULD be further trained before carrying one.

However, government mandated training doesn’t accomplish those objectives, all it does is provide business for trainers. It’s akin to mandated emissions tests for cars, makes people feel better and provides business for testers but doesn’t really accomplish what it claims to.
 
Net Engineer said:
Yes, you SHOULD be trained before handling a firearm and you SHOULD be further trained before carrying one.

However, government mandated training doesn’t accomplish those objectives, all it does is provide business for trainers. It’s akin to mandated emissions tests for cars, makes people feel better and provides business for testers but doesn’t really accomplish what it claims to.
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It'll be "I told you so" from the anti2a rejects when the untrained start shooting the innocent! I like my odds!
 
TEXASforLIFE said:
It'll be "I told you so" from the anti2a rejects when the untrained start shooting the innocent! I like my odds!
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IMHO Makes no difference, just because someone sits in a class doesn’t mean they’re trained.

Example:
I took a class last weekend for the FL, UT, AZ CCW permits, it was combined with people wanting to get NV permits (most new gun owners), out of the 20 people in there training for the first time for the CCW in NV, half of them spent the entire time staring at their phones and not learning a damn thing.
 
Net Engineer said:
IMHO Makes no difference, just because someone sits in a class doesn’t mean they’re trained.

Example:
I took a class last weekend for the FL, UT, AZ CCW permits, it was combined with people wanting to get NV permits (most new gun owners), out of the 20 people in there training for the first time for the CCW in NV, half of them spent the entire time staring at their phones and not learning a damn thing.
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I know right where you are coming from. Adult learning is complex.

There are unfortunately a good number of "instructors" who somehow got an instructor certificate but have no idea what they are doing.

I can assure you the people who completed my courses knew the material before they walked out the door, or they didn't get a certificate. And one of my first steps in every course is to turn the phones off. People absorb the material at different rates but you can get the important stuff through most of their skulls. Those who choose not to get it, well, like The Duke said, life is harder when you're stupid.
 
Kentucky was already constitutional carry when I moved here in December 2015, there are laws on the books that allow citizens to open carry only in Metro Hall and City Hall. When I worked Front Desk security at Metro Hall I had many come in open carrying and it was at my discretion on when I would notify Metro Safe about certain individuals who were carrying and many times a LEO or Sheriff would stop in to talk with the person or even escort them.
In my private time I concealed carried all the time. I now have a CCDW Permit.
 
My experience has been that all the firearms safety you need to know can be taught in five minutes or not at all. If you don’t grasp the 4 rules in that time you never will.

I have never purchased a brand new firearm that didn’t come with an instruction manual and most firearms companies will send you one for free. As was stated up thread, if the shooter didn’t take the basic precaution of reading that manual before loading the firearm all the safety in the world wouldn’t have sunk in.

Several states require absolutely no training or demonstration of competency what so ever. You do not even have to demonstrate that you have ever even fired a gun before being issued a permit. All you have to do is pay the fee and submit to a background check and you walk out the door legal to carry a concealed firearm.

So, if state mandated training is so important to the safety of the gun carrying public why don’t we have disproportionately higher firearms accident (not willful negligence or criminal misuse but accidents) rates in those states?
 
Keystone19250 said:
Or largely unreported.
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You think if the MSM had ammo like that they wouldn't report it ?

Gun safety as well as when it is appropriate to use a gun in self defense are in reality pretty much common sense. It is illogical to fear the outlier people who lack common sense more than government infringement. And certainly the criminal element who care neither about law or common sense.
 
Bassbob said:
You think if the MSM had ammo like that they wouldn't report it ?

Gun safety as well as when it is appropriate to use a gun in self defense are in reality pretty much common sense. It is illogical to fear the outlier people who lack common sense more than government infringement. And certainly the criminal element who care neither about law or common sense.
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I would respectfully disagree on the common sense part. After 33 years of LE and teaching there (to include FLETC) I teach private classes for firearms as a retirement gig. From basic new folks to some how to carry classes and some of what I see.

Many people think having a gun will immediately ward off any evil spirits.

You would also be surprised how much time I have to spend on dispelling really really bad thought processes. Much very antiquated and much just bad advice (usually from relatives and TV shows) that will end in a murder charge.

I wish more people would take a vetted course on firearms from a reputable place that doesn’t use pictures of their “war belts” and tricked out John Wick guns to draw the attendees!

Also look for instructors that continue to go to classes themselves. I hosted Tom Givens Rangemaster for our crew and we learned a lot with that excellent program. One of our folks is even a Gunsite Rangemaster and he even learned some stuff. So if they are Rangemaster or Gunsite that is a plus

(Disclaimer I’m not saying trainings should be mandated just simply saying folks have no clue how much they would benefit and they should want to a couple times)
 
Bassbob said:
You think if the MSM had ammo like that they wouldn't report it ?

Gun safety as well as when it is appropriate to use a gun in self defense are in reality pretty much common sense. It is illogical to fear the outlier people who lack common sense more than government infringement. And certainly the criminal element who care neither about law or common sense.
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I agree on the media as they would jump all over gun purchases made by people uneducated in the proper use of firearms, my comment was about people themselves not reporting ND’s or AD’s where no one was hurt so as to not involve law enforcement.
 
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