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Fools mistakenly shooting innocents will backlash on us

It's pretty easy. A bunch of uneducated people purchasing guns. They have no idea how to use and take care of them properly nor do they know when it's ok and not ok to shoot a human being. Just a bunch of fools. This in itself will ruin it for everybody else.
 
These incidents are being used to promote an agenda. It will likely hurt gun owners. I don’t think stand your ground laws make any difference in what we are seeing.
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This in a nut shell. There is an agenda against firearms going on. We are basically one generation away from losing the second amendment. Before everyone jumps in and says how wrong I am or how hard that will be just think about this.
These school shootings and mass killings are galvanizing (polarizing) our young school age folks. Soon they will be running for something as a representative, senator, mayor governor etc. We've had many of them involved in a school or mass shootings somewhere. The schools now more than ever seem to be indoctrinating more than teaching, many things we were taught in school are no longer taught (civics, constitution etc.) or taught in such a way that they go against the grain the way we were taught in the past. The media pushes that firearms need to be heavily regulated and/or banned completely. In my state I see it all the time folks with multiple felony convictions out on bail and or released for time served then arrested a short time later for more or multiple firearm crimes. They (firearms charges) are once again dropped instead of held up and used to put the offender in the penitentiary for multiple decades or life. They then once again they are out again in less than 10 years usually less than 7.
This is the kind of stuff that needs stopped! Instead we have George Soros and Mike Bloomberg throwing millions of dollars to get judges and district attorney's elected to continue the cycle.
Prime example is the new Chicago mayor. now I'm not saying there was any Soros or Bloomberg money involved chances are good there may have been, yet they elected someone who will actually be worse than the outgoing mayor Lightfoot. Chicago has had or has right now some of the most strict gun laws on the books yet it doesn't stop any of the shootings or the killings and they don't seem to be holding any of the criminals responsible for any of these crimes. When they start looking at these mass looting/ mob action crime events as "protest" yet innocent people die at the hands of these people it's just wrote off as a peaceful protest. Folks protecting there own life who get caught in the middle of these "peaceful protest" using a firearm they in turn are the ones arrested and charged for a crime. It's almost become an unwinnable situation for honest law abiding citizens. If you do get found innocent the next thing that happens is the family of the member that happened to get shot who happened to be little Johnny with a rap sheet as long as my legs they end up in a civil court suing you and you lose for denying little Johnny his civil rights.

I do have to agree that some of the stuff that's happened here recently the 85-year-old man that shot the guy through the door. It's just ridiculous I don't care how scared you are if you're inside behind a locked door you are not in any danger until that door has been breached.
This is the kind of stuff that the anti-gunners love and eat up to say "see I told you so"
Rinse and repeat....
 
Pitdogg2 said:
This in a nut shell. There is an agenda against firearms going on. We are basically one generation away from losing the second amendment. Before everyone jumps in and says how wrong I am or how hard that will be just think about this.
These school shootings and mass killings are galvanizing (polarizing) our young school age folks. Soon they will be running for something as a representative, senator, mayor governor etc. We've had many of them involved in a school or mass shootings somewhere. The schools now more than ever seem to be indoctrinating more than teaching, many things we were taught in school are no longer taught (civics, constitution etc.) or taught in such a way that they go against the grain the way we were taught in the past. The media pushes that firearms need to be heavily regulated and/or banned completely. In my state I see it all the time folks with multiple felony convictions out on bail and or released for time served then arrested a short time later for more or multiple firearm crimes. They (firearms charges) are once again dropped instead of held up and used to put the offender in the penitentiary for multiple decades or life. They then once again they are out again in less than 10 years usually less than 7.
This is the kind of stuff that needs stopped! Instead we have George Soros and Mike Bloomberg throwing millions of dollars to get judges and district attorney's elected to continue the cycle.
Prime example is the new Chicago mayor. now I'm not saying there was any Soros or Bloomberg money involved chances are good there may have been, yet they elected someone who will actually be worse than the outgoing mayor Lightfoot. Chicago has had or has right now some of the most strict gun laws on the books yet it doesn't stop any of the shootings or the killings and they don't seem to be holding any of the criminals responsible for any of these crimes. When they start looking at these mass looting/ mob action crime events as "protest" yet innocent people die at the hands of these people it's just wrote off as a peaceful protest. Folks protecting there own life who get caught in the middle of these "peaceful protest" using a firearm they in turn are the ones arrested and charged for a crime. It's almost become an unwinnable situation for honest law abiding citizens. If you do get found innocent the next thing that happens is the family of the member that happened to get shot who happened to be little Johnny with a rap sheet as long as my legs they end up in a civil court suing you and you lose for denying little Johnny his civil rights.

I do have to agree that some of the stuff that's happened here recently the 85-year-old man that shot the guy through the door. It's just ridiculous I don't care how scared you are if you're inside behind a locked door you are not in any danger until that door has been breached.
This is the kind of stuff that the anti-gunners love and eat up to say "see I told you so"
Rinse and repeat....
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thehill.com

Here are the 10 biggest donors in the midterm elections

Rich Americans spent big this midterm season to impact down-ballot races for their candidates of choice. The 2022 midterm election cycle has seen a boom in spending in the lead-up to Electio…
thehill.com thehill.com

Plenty of money being thrown left and right and I honestly don't believe their agendas don't match the majority of Americans. I agree with you that our rights are in danger and gun owners need to put forth solutions. SCOTUS overturned ROE and now the electorate reaction is controlling elections. As with anything we do today you have to give to get but the key is to give what you choose to get what you want. Just my thoughts
 
TidalWave said:
…I get your point, but somebody’s paying for it, one way or t’other.
Just sayin’ 😉
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We also pay for a ton of other actually useless crap they teach kids in public school. And a ton of useless crap in general. My issue isn't with training or paying for training. My issue is with having to jump through hoops set out by the government to exercise my god given, constitutionally protected rights.
 
HayesGreener said:
I have read several stories recently of armed people shooting under mistaken circumstances. The most recent I read was a resident shooting at a delivery person who went to the wrong address. I am all for constitutional carry, but as a long term instructor, I am appalled at the misconceptions or twisted logic many have of when they can use a gun. I wish everyone would get some training on the law, but with constitutional carry that isn't going to happen. As these incidents accumulate, there will be a backlash. The most I can do is ask you knowledgeable folks to encourage new gun owners to get some training. And please emphasize, just because you can does not mean you should.
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I hear ya, just this month, the delivery driver, the black guy that went to the wrong address shot by the 72 year old homeownerr, the cheerleaders approaching what they though was their car and shot by someone that was sitting in the car..

IMHO, the problem is they don't know the law, without training, that you can't protect property with deadly force. Your weapon is your last resort, not your first and the fact that in my state, if it is safe to do so you MUST flee. They just approved constitutional carry for Nebraska that goes into effect in September and I don't know the answer unless perhaps the state offers the classes that we had to take to obtain a CCW for free.

I went to a seminar recently with an undercover cop and he was explaining different laws. He used an example that you come out of WalMart and there is a guy in the drivers seat of your car trying to hot wire it. You tell him to get the #$@( out of your car and he refuses, you pull your pistol and again demand that he get out of your car and he complies, and calls the cops on you. You get arrested. As soon as he says this a guy in the back is incredulous and says that can't be so. Took them 15 minutes to convince this fool that if he shoots someone over property that he is going on a one way ticket upstate.
 
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BreakingWind said:
I hear ya, just this month, the delivery driver, the black guy that went to the wrong address shot by the 72 year old homeownerr, the cheerleaders approaching what they though was their car and shot by someone that was sitting in the car..

IMHO, the problem is they don't know the law, without training, that you can't protect property with deadly force. Your weapon is your last resort, not your first and the fact that in my state, if it is safe to do so you MUST flee. They just approved constitutional carry for Nebraska that goes into effect in September and I don't know the answer unless perhaps the state offers the classes that we had to take to obtain a CCW for free.

I went to a seminar recently with an undercover cop and he was explaining different laws. He used an example that you come out of WalMart and there is a guy in the drivers seat of your car trying to hot wire it. You tell him to get the #$@( out of your car and he refuses, you pull your pistol and again demand that he get out of your car and he complies, and calls the cops on you. You get arrested. As soon as he says this a guy in the back is incredulous and says that can't be so. Took them 15 minutes to convince this fool that if he shoots someone over property that he is going on a one way ticket upstate.
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If someone thinks it is legal to shoot someone over property, no amount of training is going to help them. You have to be absolutely retarded to think you can shoot people for stealing, being black or trespassing. No amount of training can fix a brain like that.
 
HayesGreener said:
I have read several stories recently of armed people shooting under mistaken circumstances. The most recent I read was a resident shooting at a delivery person who went to the wrong address. I am all for constitutional carry, but as a long term instructor, I am appalled at the misconceptions or twisted logic many have of when they can use a gun. I wish everyone would get some training on the law, but with constitutional carry that isn't going to happen. As these incidents accumulate, there will be a backlash. The most I can do is ask you knowledgeable folks to encourage new gun owners to get some training. And please emphasize, just because you can does not mean you should.
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Good points sir. And lots of good points made by others contributing to this discussion.

I'm a martial arts instructor who has been handling/carrying/shooting firearms since I was a Marine back in the late 1970's.

A firearm is a tool in the self-defense plan, not the only tool. I not only teach my martial arts students physical self-defense techniques but also verbal self-defense techniques, because they are just as important as the physical techniques(and weapon techniques).

When you deal with violent people on a regular basis as either a Law Enforcement Officer, Security officer or Mental Health Professional you usually learn that it's better to deal with a situation verbally before it gets physical.

I think all people who legally carry concealed need more training in the non-weapon aspects of confrontations. It's sometimes called "Verbal Judo". Learning to create distance between yourself and the person who's being aggressive is also a useful skill.

I'll be the first to agree that some people who live in a state that allows constitutional carry(like my home state of Texas) don't have the right attitude to possess or use a firearm safely. But I also believe that people who text and drive, should get their license suspended when they have multiple violations or have been involved in a traffic accident.

There's a higher responsibility for proper behavior when you have access to a firearm(or other weapon - knife, etc.) and some people didn't seem to get that memo. Perhaps when those types of people are punished severely, then others with similar behaviors will take note.
 
Guy Reliford (a 2A Attorney) touched on the stand your ground laws (or as he likes to say no duty to retreat) at the 45 min mark. Very well articulated


wibc.com

The Gun Guy

BLOGS | RELFORD LAW | TACTICAL FIREARMS | OMNY | ITUNES Guy A. Relford is the founder of the Law Offices of Guy A. Relford in Carmel, Indiana. His legal practice includes both civil and criminal litigation, focused exclusively on the defense of the U.S. and Indiana Constitutions and the...
wibc.com wibc.com
 
What might be of interest to some. My home state of Indiana like others just went to constitutional Carry last summer. And like other states before (and still) you could/can get a License to carry handgun permit. The difference in Indiana is they required no training for a permit just a write off by the state police )basically the same check when you buy a gun plus fingerprints. (They made it free a couple years ago minus the 10 dollar fingerprint fee)

In my retired life I conduct firearms instruction in the private sector. I have no issues finding work as people seek out training. If one has a vetted quality program folks will come without being forced by state mandatory training

Most folks upset about the constitutional Carry are folks that checked the state boxes to charge a fee to those seeking permission slips. Because without their state mandated program they can’t teach and people wouldn’t choose them if them.

A few instructors in those states have their hearts in it and are probably great instructors but most that I have seen can’t relay true factual experience and will be vague for any questions their slide show can’t answer for them!
 
The laws of every state regarding the use of deadly force are different. I am a US Law Shield member and have attended pretty much every one of the various free seminars they offer to members. The one I go back to every year is "When Can I Shoot: The Use Of Deadly Force", which is taught by an attorney whose practice history is based on many significant 2A cases on the local, state, and national level. I keep going back because I always learn new things about recent cases and changes to the law. I see many of the same people who also attend for the same reasons I do. Free booklets covering your state's laws on the title I mentioned previously are also handed out. My club hosts them twice yearly and it's free to my club's members as well as Law Shield members. They also hold them at many other clubs, gun stores, and ranges in all the states they're in, and the most a non-member will pay is $10 to attend for the two and a half to three hour program, including a Q&A session at the end. I have no affiliation with US Law Shield other than being a member but am very well satisfied with the quality content in the seminars. Check their website if you're interested. For me, continuous training in firearms law is just as important as practice and tactical training. Just my opinion.
 
Bassbob said:
Missouri went CC in 2017. If we were going to be a problem, you'd know it.
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I always used Vermont as an example. They have had constitutional Carry for like how many decades? You have some folks with permits so stupid stuff that to hear the left talk should know better I mean after all if they went through a state mandated class

Before Indiana went to constitutional Carry they waive red the fee for the permits (you only have to pay the finger prints through a private companies like 10 bucks) the State Police Administration complained.

Then when they were passing the constitutional carry the State Police Superintendent (who is a career agency head retired Trioper elected two term Sheriff appointed by past Governor and some who’d current Governor kept) made a big statement that could have been from Moms demand. Went on about how it would hinder LE from finding criminals and be such a hindering of police work.

I’m like you all should look at Vermont their Tropes find criminals just fine and they don’t have permits and there is no increased blood bath in the streets. If they do something illegal arrest them. Whether the have a firearm is a moot point

Of course with the increase of states going constitutional carry you see the media trying to relate random criminal firearms crimes to it. Obviously to try and convince the suburban Moms. so there is that side effect
 
Violent criminals will be violent criminals no matter what the laws are. If raised feral in thug culture, the behavior is pretty well baked in.
The solution in controlling violent miscreants is to put them behind bars or in the ground.

My point has been that otherwise law abiding John Q needs to understand the law, and ramifications of using a firearm, especially if he is going to carry one around in public. Having been a trainer for many years, I have disabused many of notions about the law that could have landed them in jail. The lady who thought she could display her gun to an unsavory looking character in the WalMart parking lot, to "scare him". The guy who thought he could shoot someone siphoning gas in his driveway. The person who thought he could shoot the guy stealing the bicycle or lawn mower form his front yard. Or it's OK to shoot a trespasser if there are signs posted. The list goes on. I have heard these misconceptions often enough in my classes to believe it is a thing. I
know I am a broken record, but you have to know the law where you are if you are going to use a firearm.
 
HayesGreener said:
Violent criminals will be violent criminals no matter what the laws are. If raised feral in thug culture, the behavior is pretty well baked in.
The solution in controlling violent miscreants is to put them behind bars or in the ground.

My point has been that otherwise law abiding John Q needs to understand the law, and ramifications of using a firearm, especially if he is going to carry one around in public. Having been a trainer for many years, I have disabused many of notions about the law that could have landed them in jail. The lady who thought she could display her gun to an unsavory looking character in the WalMart parking lot, to "scare him". The guy who thought he could shoot someone siphoning gas in his driveway. The person who thought he could shoot the guy stealing the bicycle or lawn mower form his front yard. Or it's OK to shoot a trespasser if there are signs posted. The list goes on. I have heard these misconceptions often enough in my classes to believe it is a thing. I
know I am a broken record, but you have to know the law where you are if you are going to use a firearm.
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Rule #1:
Dont go in for a taste test at the Hayes BBQ pit… you will get shot ! 😆
 
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I have no misconceptions.
Pistol is getting pulled for only a few select instances.
That pretty much revolves around defending a life. If its material, take it. It can be replaced. Not worth a stray bullet killing an innocent.

We train and pray we never have to use the training.
 
HayesGreener said:
Violent criminals will be violent criminals no matter what the laws are. If raised feral in thug culture, the behavior is pretty well baked in.
The solution in controlling violent miscreants is to put them behind bars or in the ground.

My point has been that otherwise law abiding John Q needs to understand the law, and ramifications of using a firearm, especially if he is going to carry one around in public. Having been a trainer for many years, I have disabused many of notions about the law that could have landed them in jail. The lady who thought she could display her gun to an unsavory looking character in the WalMart parking lot, to "scare him". The guy who thought he could shoot someone siphoning gas in his driveway. The person who thought he could shoot the guy stealing the bicycle or lawn mower form his front yard. Or it's OK to shoot a trespasser if there are signs posted. The list goes on. I have heard these misconceptions often enough in my classes to believe it is a thing. I
know I am a broken record, but you have to know the law where you are if you are going to use a firearm.
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I spend a lot of time in my classes dispelling bad or misguided theories on both sides. Some like your example where they are overzealous and make you go WTH and on the other some that are so paranoid I’m like since your not gonna use it why are you carrying!
 
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