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Gun Safes

My opinion is gun safes are bulky, expensive, and don't protect against fire loss.

I understand their appeal and utility to store guns away from children and thieves.

So to each heir own on if they have one or not.
 
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UL TRTL30X6 High Security Rating: Potentially insures up to $3 Million
Inside Dimensions(inches): 59” High x 19 5/8” Wide x 17 3/4” Deep
Outside Dimensions(inches): 73 5/8” High x 30 1/4” Wide x 32 7/8” Deep
Two Locks: High Security Combination Lock & High Security Key Lock
Cubic Feet: 11.9
Weight: 3,600 lbs.

This safe is made by the John Tann Company. I have one that is similar that I used when I was in the jewelry repair business before I closed up shop. So, I have a good understanding about the ins and outs of a high security safe. It's way too heavy to put in a house unless you're able to set it on reinforced concrete, and it's very expensive to move it. Often a small crane is needed to lift one like this off of a flatbed truck. The company that delivered mine broke the fork lift's hydraulic lines trying to set it off the truck, and it dropped about a foot. At that point we checked to make sure the glass plate behind the dial was intact and all parts were operational. As you see, the inside dimensions wouldn't allow for many long guns, but then a safe like this wasn't intended to secure guns per say. When you're looking for a gun safe the old saying, "you get what you pay for" really applies, and you need to balance what you have to protect to how much you need to spend to accomplice that. Equipment like this is at the extreme end, and the average gun owner wouldn't venture into this type of vault. If you are looking for a safe, do your homework, know which questions to ask, and buy a safe that gives you the security that fits your situation. I still own it but I'm letting a former business associate use it in the meantime. Now if I came by a dozen or more 1911 Singers then I might just have to change my mind and find a place for it at home. Another tidbit, notice the shelves inside. Mine came with several more. The owner of the company I purchased from suggested that at some point to have the shelves welded in place. I asked why and he responded that if we were robbed, it would be possible to lock an employee (or me) inside. If that happened and as a joke the bandits decided to hit the dial hard enough to break the glass plate behind it then the prospect of rescuing the person locked inside alive would be very small. Needless to say the shelves were soon welded in place. Here's some additional information if you're interested:

http://www.lackasafe.com/files/safes Tann TRTL30X6 Plus(1).pdf
 
10mmLife said:
Some electronic keypad safes do not have a backup key feature.

This can be a real problem on cheaper models that use questionable electronics.
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The Winchester safes are pretty cheap. There is a protocol for getting it open that involves contacting them and getting some master code or something. I was reading about it when I was having issues. My battery died and I put another battery in it but that battery was weak. I eventually figured it out, but while I was reading about it on the net something came up about a master code or a master key.

Edited to add that the cheap Winchester safe does have a redundant key lock.
 
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10mmLife said:
You can upgrade the security of your safe by changing the lock and have a backup key to get you in if something fails.

mbausa.com

OMEGA REDUNDANT SWINGBOLT KEY LOCK PACKAGE W/ CHROME KEYPAD

MBA USA, Inc. is a provider of locks, tools and training for locksmiths and security professionals.
mbausa.com mbausa.com
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Mine and many other safes have multiple lock types and back ups.
Best safe is usually hidden in plain sight as something else less desirable.
 
My electronic lock has a mechanical key backup. My other safe is a mechanical lock.

The most common way of beating these entry level safes is not with fancy tools, and special skills. It's just using brute force, and prying them open with large pry bars. That why bolting these things down in a corner, with the side the door opens from facing a wall, makes it much harder to break into one.
 
bigx5murf said:
My electronic lock has a mechanical key backup. My other safe is a mechanical lock.

The most common way of beating these entry level safes is not with fancy tools, and special skills. It's just using brute force, and prying them open with large pry bars. That why bolting these things down in a corner, with the side the door opens from facing a wall, makes it much harder to break into one.
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That don’t work with anything other than those $200 Stack On type safes. The heavier safes with multiple 1” or 1 1/4” round bolts are very difficult to pry open with brute force. You can however take a circular saw with a plywood blade turned backwards and simply cut the top of the safe off. It’s a lot harder and takes longer if the safe is bolted to something and up against a wall, but still if you have a half hour and don’t have to worry about the noise from the saw alerting someone, Bob’s yer uncle.
 
Bassbob said:
That don’t work with anything other than those $200 Stack On type safes. The heavier safes with multiple 1” or 1 1/4” round bolts are very difficult to pry open with brute force. You can however take a circular saw with a plywood blade turned backwards and simply cut the top of the safe off. It’s a lot harder and takes longer if the safe is bolted to something and up against a wall, but still if you have a half hour and don’t have to worry about the noise from the saw alerting someone, Bob’s yer uncle.
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ffwd to the 5:00 mark. I guaranteed it will given enough time and effort
 
bigx5murf said:

ffwd to the 5:00 mark. I guaranteed it will given enough time and effort
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Am betting that's why 1st season of McGiver TV series things changed on show to run of the mill? No longer did he explain in detail how to do this or that. Ask yourself why? Then, Youtube came along and demystified many things for good or not so much? Once the mystique is gone from whatever other things may happen for good or not so much?

Some things are better left alone and unsaid because it's part of the security behind them while some things aren't? Ignorant, stupid kids haven't realized or thought of that yet because of lack of experience and reasoning....so? Silence is golden, but doesn't last long around some kids parroting anything?

In this day and age of kids, computers and knowledge many things need to be revamped and thought out differently. Maybe why out of sight, out of mind may still be best security?
 
BobM said:
Am betting that's why 1st season of McGiver TV series things changed on show to run of the mill? No longer did he explain in detail how to do this or that. Ask yourself why? Then, Youtube came along and demystified many things for good or not so much? Once the mystique is gone from whatever other things may happen for good or not so much?

Some things are better left alone and unsaid because it's part of the security behind them while some things aren't? Ignorant, stupid kids haven't realized or thought of that yet because of lack of experience and reasoning....so? Silence is golden, but doesn't last long around some kids parroting anything?

In this day and age of kids, computers and knowledge many things need to be revamped and thought out differently. Maybe why out of sight, out of mind may still be best security?
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I subscribe to the hide the safes, maybe even right in plain sight theory.
 
Bassbob said:
I subscribe to the hide the safes, maybe even right in plain sight theory.
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(y)(y)
On the other hand? In some ways a see through locked glass/plastic with thick unbreakable panes gun cabinet makes some sense, then can easily take inventory? Could be nice in some ways displaying firearms safely? Have never seen one with completely unbreakable impact free glass panes though. Just wood framed glass panes. Saw one with embedded chicken wire in glass once too. Long ago with small window panes.
 
Bassbob said:
Sure. Out in the yard. With no cops or neighbors or alarm systems or armed homeowners. You can go further than that and say with certainty there isn’t a safe in existence someone can’t break into if they have enough time.
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You make a good point, regarding a gun safe needs to be layered with an alarm system.

But my original point was, bolting down a residential security container type "safe", into a corner, with door opening facing a wall, adds a significant amount of time to the brute force method. The video was a couple of scrawny guys with pry bars just messing around, with no strategy idea how to go about it. If the safe wasn't bolted down to anything, you could tip one over onto a moving blanket (muffle the noise of falling), and two people could pry it open in 10 minutes or less, and not make much noise doing it.
 
bigx5murf said:
You make a good point, regarding a gun safe needs to be layered with an alarm system.

But my original point was, bolting down a residential security container type "safe", into a corner, with door opening facing a wall, adds a significant amount of time to the brute force method. The video was a couple of scrawny guys with pry bars just messing around, with no strategy idea how to go about it. If the safe wasn't bolted down to anything, you could tip one over onto a moving blanket (muffle the noise of falling), and two people could pry it open in 10 minutes or less, and not make much noise doing it.
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Bolting down safe to wall studs and floor joists or concrete floor through many safes predrilled holes helps. So does encasing safe in solid poured rebar reinforced concrete block walls as well as an alarm system with back up power source.

A bare unanchored stand alone safe? Not so much depending on safe's size? Many smaller wall safes are simply yanked from walls and carried off?

Purposely, without elaborating too much, it may help to think of more a "safe system" instead of just a safe itself?
 
BobM said:
Bolting down safe to wall studs and floor joists or concrete floor through many safes predrilled holes helps. So does encasing safe in solid poured rebar reinforced concrete block walls as well as an alarm system with back up power source.

A bare unanchored stand alone safe? Not so much depending on safe's size? Many smaller wall safes are simply yanked from walls and carried off?

Purposely, without elaborating too much, it may help to think of more a "safe system" instead of just a safe itself?
Click to expand...

Remember too that bolting a safe to the floor is going to have some effect on the water/ flood rating of the safe. If that’s a consideration.
 
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