The Night Rider
Professional
I watched the entire video and based on it I think( for whatever my opinion is worth) having a reload readily available is more important than the specific capacity of your gun
How Important is Capacity?
- Thread starter SimonRL
- Start date
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XD94045
Guest
And for those of us in California, we either need to train twice as hard or use a better mouse trap
LOL It ain’t much better in Washington right now, eventually I assume the courts settle this.
WellArmed
Master Class
Training is a plus and increases chances of success no doubt, but my eyes always roll in the back of my head when Monday morning quarterbacks start acting like they would have taken everyone out in one or two shots each with lazer precision. 
Shooting at the range, in a class, or during a competition is NOT the same nor is going to necessarily yield the same results when your target also has a gun and is shooting back at you. Especially if you're having to worry about getting to cover while dodging bullets while trying to get shots on target suddenly and unexpectedly. Especially if you've been shot or injured while you're actively trying to get rounds on target, dodge bullets, and get to cover....
When you're at the range, training, or competition, you already have everything planned out in your head and you know what drill or course you're going to do. You've already prepared mentally to draw your firearm at a particular time. That's completely different situation than what the victims in the video experienced and had to go through. Overconfidence and thinking you're going to perform like John Wick in these kind of situations because you did it during a safe and planned controlled environment where your target(s) weren't shooting back at is very shortsighted and conceded way of thinking IMHO.
I honestly don't know how well I'd do in some of those situations. They all seemed to have survived the fight and at the very least were able to put up a fight, so that was what was most important. The goal is to survive and not necessarily to kill the perpetrators.
Shooting at the range, in a class, or during a competition is NOT the same nor is going to necessarily yield the same results when your target also has a gun and is shooting back at you. Especially if you're having to worry about getting to cover while dodging bullets while trying to get shots on target suddenly and unexpectedly. Especially if you've been shot or injured while you're actively trying to get rounds on target, dodge bullets, and get to cover....
When you're at the range, training, or competition, you already have everything planned out in your head and you know what drill or course you're going to do. You've already prepared mentally to draw your firearm at a particular time. That's completely different situation than what the victims in the video experienced and had to go through. Overconfidence and thinking you're going to perform like John Wick in these kind of situations because you did it during a safe and planned controlled environment where your target(s) weren't shooting back at is very shortsighted and conceded way of thinking IMHO.
I honestly don't know how well I'd do in some of those situations. They all seemed to have survived the fight and at the very least were able to put up a fight, so that was what was most important. The goal is to survive and not necessarily to kill the perpetrators.
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WellArmed
Master Class
It seemed like whether they had 6 or 14 rounds, they dumped them all, and then were left with an empty gun. I agree with you that the orginal capacity didn't seen to make much of a difference to me either mainly because they all mostly mag dumped.
I always EDC my spare on my weak side waistline. Lately I've been carrying Shield 45 6+1 with two 7 round reloads. I have a Shield Plus, but I haven't put enough rounds through it to trust it yet.
Keystone19250
SAINT
Interesting article and although I can hit the bullseye or at least the edges of the red dot on paper unfortunately even the outdoor range I frequent doesn’t allow rapid movement with gun in hand so I’ve become proficient with shooting a couple rounds, putting the gun on the table, walking around to the other side of the table if possible, picking the gun up “sometimes weak hand” and shooting a couple more rounds.
I’ll also include a mag change in this.
For me I focus on CTR mass shot placement looking to cause as much blood loss as possible.
I’ll also include a mag change in this.
For me I focus on CTR mass shot placement looking to cause as much blood loss as possible.
WellArmed
Master Class
Yes, but this video sheds new light, and changed my opinion about a few things.
kenpomaniac1958
Master Class
I usually carry a knife and a handgun(with a spare magazine). I like the FMA (Filipino Martial Arts) principle of "Corto/Largo"(Blade for close(corto-short) range. Firearm for longer(largo-long range) when "verbal judo" did not work and I could not escape.
Consequently I use a knife when some people would be reaching for a firearm. Therefore I feel pretty well armed with a Glock 19 Gen 5 and 26 rounds (2 15 round magazines loaded to 13 rounds) and a good sharp knife. When I'm trips closer to the Mexican border(I'm about 30 miles from the border but have relatives who live 10 miles or closer), I usually add a rifle with at least 30 round magazine capacity to the mix.
I agree that practicing shooting drills after you have gotten your heart rate up gives you a more realistic feel of how accurate you'll be under stress. Doing this also shows you weaknesses on where you position your firearm and or blade. And how small movements usually work better than big movements that require more balance and coordination. I also train my weak side(I'm a lefty so for me that's my right side) harder than my strong side.
Good tactics (footwork, proper use of cover, verbal de-escalation, etc) are more important than magazine capacity or how many magazines you're carrying.
Consequently I use a knife when some people would be reaching for a firearm. Therefore I feel pretty well armed with a Glock 19 Gen 5 and 26 rounds (2 15 round magazines loaded to 13 rounds) and a good sharp knife. When I'm trips closer to the Mexican border(I'm about 30 miles from the border but have relatives who live 10 miles or closer), I usually add a rifle with at least 30 round magazine capacity to the mix.
I agree that practicing shooting drills after you have gotten your heart rate up gives you a more realistic feel of how accurate you'll be under stress. Doing this also shows you weaknesses on where you position your firearm and or blade. And how small movements usually work better than big movements that require more balance and coordination. I also train my weak side(I'm a lefty so for me that's my right side) harder than my strong side.
Good tactics (footwork, proper use of cover, verbal de-escalation, etc) are more important than magazine capacity or how many magazines you're carrying.
Attachments
KillerFord1977
SAINT
None of us will know exactly how we will respond. It would be different every time. Even if you got in a gun battle every week. Say Chicago for instance .Training is a plus and increases chances of success no doubt, but my eyes always roll in the back of my head when Monday morning quarterbacks start acting like they would have taken everyone out in one or two shots each with lazer precision.
Shooting at the range, in a class, or during a competition is NOT the same nor is going to necessarily yield the same results when your target also has a gun and is shooting back at you. Especially if you're having to worry about getting to cover while dodging bullets while trying to get shots on target suddenly and unexpectedly. Especially if you've been shot or injured while you're actively trying to get rounds on target, dodge bullets, and get to cover....
When you're at the range, training, or competition, you already have everything planned out in your head and you know what drill or course you're going to do. You've already prepared mentally to draw your firearm at a particular time. That's completely different situation than what the victims in the video experienced and had to go through. Overconfidence and thinking you're going to perform like John Wick in these kind of situations because you did it during a safe and planned controlled environment where your target(s) weren't shooting back at is very shortsighted and conceded way of thinking IMHO.
I honestly don't know how well I'd do in some of those situations. They all seemed to have survived the fight and at the very least were able to put up a fight, so that was what was most important. The goal is to survive and not necessarily to kill the perpetrators.
The goal with training is muscle memory. How to lead a moving target, how to engage multiple targets, how to draw/reload and how to be understanding of a firearm for an offensive of defensive situation
WellArmed
Master Class
I agree. Training and building muscle memory will increase chances, but I doubt I'll be able to get rounds on target anywhere near as effectively as I could during training if bullets are whizzing by my head.None of us will know exactly how we will respond. It would be different every time. Even if you got in a gun battle every week. Say Chicago for instance .
The goal with training is muscle memory. How to lead a moving target, how to engage multiple targets, how to draw/reload and how to be understanding of a firearm for an offensive of defensive situation
Even when we are shooting moving targets and shooting on the move during training, most of the time we have a pretty good idea where those targets are going to be or move to as well.
BreakingWind
Master Class
The amount of ammo you need is directly porportional to shot placement. Me thinks that 2 shots, center chest ought to about do it. My current EDCs are a Ruger LC9S 8+1 or my Hellcat 12+1 and I rarely carry a spare magazine. I figure if you can't stop the attack with 1 full magazine then you shouldn't be shooting. On the other hand if I have a catastrophic failure and I need a new magazine to rectify the problem then its gone be an oh s--t moment.
Funny story, short version. This happened in South America. A guy I knew of bought a Glock and thought he was superman. He went to a very bad part of the city looking for trouble. Well, he found it in the form of 2 street thugs with big knives deciding his money was going to be theirs. He pulled the glock and emptied the mag. He didn't hit either of the thugs but took out a bunch of car windows and store fronts and sent numerous people diving for cover. After he recovered from the severe beating and was released from the hospital where the 2 street thugs put him when he ran out of ammo, he went straight to jail. Capacity was not his problem it was a total lack of training and brains. With increased capacity he probably would have hit a person, probably an innocent bystander but a person non the less.
Funny story, short version. This happened in South America. A guy I knew of bought a Glock and thought he was superman. He went to a very bad part of the city looking for trouble. Well, he found it in the form of 2 street thugs with big knives deciding his money was going to be theirs. He pulled the glock and emptied the mag. He didn't hit either of the thugs but took out a bunch of car windows and store fronts and sent numerous people diving for cover. After he recovered from the severe beating and was released from the hospital where the 2 street thugs put him when he ran out of ammo, he went straight to jail. Capacity was not his problem it was a total lack of training and brains. With increased capacity he probably would have hit a person, probably an innocent bystander but a person non the less.
kenpomaniac1958
Master Class
I grew near the Mexican border in the Rio Grande Valley of South Texas(I moved back to the area a little over 2 years ago).
When I was younger I spent quite a bit of time in Progreso, Matamoros, and Reynosa, Mexico. It wasn't as dangerous then as it is now in those areas. I also visited Tijuana, Mexico when I was a Marine stationed at MCRD(Marine Corps Recruit Depot) in San Diego(after boot camp and after serving overseas I was stationed in MCRD in '78-'79.).
Anyone who goes into Mexico or most parts of Latin America looking for trouble will find it and have a greater chance of dying from the mistake than in many parts of America. I have no desire to ever go back to a Mexican border town.
I think a lot of people in the Rio Grande Valley feel that way because there are Mexican Flea Markets on the US side(there's a big flea market in Alamo, Texas) that have most of the merchandise we used to drive(or walk) across the border to get.
When I used to go to Mexican border towns I always wore good running shoes. I'm not kidding. And I avoided the Mexican Law Enforcement Officers because most of them were corrupt and demanded a "mordida"(bribe) or they'd arrest you.
Bassbob
Emissary
Not that I recommend it, but having been in more than a couple situations where bullets were wizzing by my head, I can tell you that you do get used to it.
No, training is not the same as a gunfight, but unless you can think of a more effective way to train for it than elevated heart rate and multiple moving targets ( not all are bogeys, some are old ladies with groceries)while running to and from cover, imma stick with what I’m doing. Which is by the way more realistic training than most cops get.
Bassbob
Emissary
You know, in all this excitement I forgot myself.
SimonRL
Hellcat
Everyone assumes they will be freaking out in those situations, but I think most people would be surprised how much time slows down and how clear you can be. If you watch those videos there are people pushing forward, picking their shots being very deliberate. I know my fight or flight response and it’s not flight. I’ve always been an overwhelming response sort of guy in almost everything. When I train I try to keep that in mind, because more often than not trainers teach defensive handgun rather than the shortest route to the bad guy. I’d prefer to run away, but if I can’t I want the advantage to be mine. Fortunately our trainer builds CQB into our training. That helps me keep the switch flipped.