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How much spare ammo do you all carry?

So...I'm going to comment on the couple of times people have said they carry a lot of ammo in case of an active shooter... maybe a comment on that situation in general. And this isn’t aimed at anyone in particular...it's something you will often see when these discussions come about.

First off, even just assuming you are getting shots on the actual shooter (more on this in a bit)...the situation is going to be chaotic. You will likely have people behind the target, and between you and the target, and likely moving. Precise, controlled fire is going to be the order of the day—not pumping out suppressing fire. Your bullets don’t know the difference between the bad guy and some kid at the movies (for instance)...and I can guarantee you a grieving family isn’t going to care whose gun fired the bullet. The range will likely be a lot farther than the 20 feet that most people like to practice at...again, precise, controlled fire will, in my view, be a lot more important than having a bunch of bullets on you.

And a bit more on the nightmare scenario an active shooter event will be:

Unless you actually see the event begin and unfold in front of you, and you KNOW who the shooter is...the odds of you making things worse, not better, by going looking for them are more predominant.

Consider: you head towards the sound of gunfire, and you see someone with a gun...they don’t see you. Do you engage? What if they’re another armed citizen doing the same thing you are? An off duty/plain clothes cop? Or are they the shooter?

What happens if they engage you? They might well be another armed citizen (or LEO), and they think YOU are the shooter...

What happens when uniformed LE sees you, and possibly engages, or just has to take the time to verify you aren’t the shooter...you’ve taken responders away from the actual shooter.

And so on...those are just off the top of my head.

Too often, we only see ourselves as the hero when we play these scenarios in our heads...we don’t want to imagine we could make it worse...which is wishful thinking at it's worst.

By the bye—this came about from a LONG discussion with a good friend, who is a former member of one of our military's “sharp end” units, and is also a former LEO...not a shrinking violet, but someone who takes a long, cold, calculating look at violence. He said, if he would ever be in that situation...unless he knew without a doubt who the shooter was, he was not going looking...citing examples I gave earlier, and others.

Food for thought.
 
HansGruber said:
So...I'm going to comment on the couple of times people have said they carry a lot of ammo in case of an active shooter... maybe a comment on that situation in general. And this isn’t aimed at anyone in particular...it's something you will often see when these discussions come about.

First off, even just assuming you are getting shots on the actual shooter (more on this in a bit)...the situation is going to be chaotic. You will likely have people behind the target, and between you and the target, and likely moving. Precise, controlled fire is going to be the order of the day—not pumping out suppressing fire. Your bullets don’t know the difference between the bad guy and some kid at the movies (for instance)...and I can guarantee you a grieving family isn’t going to care whose gun fired the bullet. The range will likely be a lot farther than the 20 feet that most people like to practice at...again, precise, controlled fire will, in my view, be a lot more important than having a bunch of bullets on you.

And a bit more on the nightmare scenario an active shooter event will be:

Unless you actually see the event begin and unfold in front of you, and you KNOW who the shooter is...the odds of you making things worse, not better, by going looking for them are more predominant.

Consider: you head towards the sound of gunfire, and you see someone with a gun...they don’t see you. Do you engage? What if they’re another armed citizen doing the same thing you are? An off duty/plain clothes cop? Or are they the shooter?

What happens if they engage you? They might well be another armed citizen (or LEO), and they think YOU are the shooter...

What happens when uniformed LE sees you, and possibly engages, or just has to take the time to verify you aren’t the shooter...you’ve taken responders away from the actual shooter.

And so on...those are just off the top of my head.

Too often, we only see ourselves as the hero when we play these scenarios in our heads...we don’t want to imagine we could make it worse...which is wishful thinking at it's worst.

By the bye—this came about from a LONG discussion with a good friend, who is a former member of one of our military's “sharp end” units, and is also a former LEO...not a shrinking violet, but someone who takes a long, cold, calculating look at violence. He said, if he would ever be in that situation...unless he knew without a doubt who the shooter was, he was not going looking...citing examples I gave earlier, and others.

Food for thought.
Click to expand...
Excellent point Hans, and one that always alarmed me if I was caught up in an active shooter situation. Just seeing someone with a gun, or even firing a gun (they could be shooting at what they think is the real shooter), doesn't indicate they are the "bad" guy. Holding my gun out where it could be seen, could then have others think I'm the "bad" guy (with others being police (uniformed or not uniformed), or other CCW holders). In my mind, to identify the "bad" guy shooter, I'd be afraid that I would have to see them shoot what I believe to be a helpless unarmed person, and with the events happening so quickly, even that wouldn't be a 100% certain. I'm with your friend, in that I wouldn't go looking and most likely would try to safely leave the area and let LE handle it. I'm conflicted by this, because I'd hate to see/have innocent people hurt or killed when I could of done something if LE had yet to arrive, but on the other hand, I wouldn't want to mistakenly hurt or kill an innocent that I thought was the "bad" guy, or worse yet, be shot by someone that thought I was the "bad" guy.
Thanks Hans, for posting this difficult scenario that every CCW holder should consider. I fear this would be my nightmare scenario, and would hope I'm never in an incident like this.
 
Just one bullet
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When I first started CCW, I carried a S&W mod 60, 38 spl. It didn't use mags, so I carried just what the cylinder held. Now, years later and for the past several years, I've been carrying a KelTek PF9. 7 in the mag and 1 in the pipe. Never really thought about it, but just accepted if I needed more than that, maybe I shouldn't be involved in that particular gun fight. I'll be the first to admit .... I'll run if there's anyway at all I can.

Now I've recently bought a SA Hellcat. Since I have relatively small hands I don't need the extended mag to hold on to, and I think it's pretty ugly anyway ...... not the Hellcat, just that 13 rnd mag. So, I will be using the 11+1 flush mag when I start carrying it. That's a 50% increase in ammo carried in the pistol itself over the PF9, so again I see no real need for extra mags. If I can't get out of any situation I find myself in with those 11 and the extra one already in the pipe, it probably won't make much difference anyway.

I know we can play 'WHAT IF' all night long, but that's just the way I see it. 'Course if the wife is with me, together we'll have another several rnds of critical defense 3" 410's and a couple more of .45 Colt. She carries a Judge in that special little pocket on the front of her special purse. Between the two of us I think we'll probably be OK.

And I'll add this one little tid-bit. My attorney once cautioned me to seriously think about what type and how much ammo I carried. He cautioned against carrying hand loads in CCW, or special little buggers like 'hacksaw notches' across a hollow point. It seems that in many cases some shyster lawyers will try to prove you were just looking for a showdown since you were so prepared for a prolonged and bloody gunfight.

It took a little while but that did sink in at some point. It would ultimately depend on who the jury was made up of. What jury you ask ...... well you can bet your bippy that in any event you're involved in any shooting, the other guy, or his surviving relatives will be suing you in a heartbeat. Don't matter whether you were in the right or not, you will find yourself in a lawsuit. And then it'll be similar to when the anti-gun folks and most of the non-gun folks see 10-12 common firearms as an arsenal ..... when you and I would likely see those same 10-12 as a reasonably small collection. The main question at that trial will be "Well, just how damn much ammo did you think you needed when you planned to kill that man?"

Just a point to ponder y'all!

regards,
jumpinjoe
 
HansGruber said:
So...I'm going to comment on the couple of times people have said they carry a lot of ammo in case of an active shooter... maybe a comment on that situation in general. And this isn’t aimed at anyone in particular...it's something you will often see when these discussions come about.

First off, even just assuming you are getting shots on the actual shooter (more on this in a bit)...the situation is going to be chaotic. You will likely have people behind the target, and between you and the target, and likely moving. Precise, controlled fire is going to be the order of the day—not pumping out suppressing fire. Your bullets don’t know the difference between the bad guy and some kid at the movies (for instance)...and I can guarantee you a grieving family isn’t going to care whose gun fired the bullet. The range will likely be a lot farther than the 20 feet that most people like to practice at...again, precise, controlled fire will, in my view, be a lot more important than having a bunch of bullets on you.

And a bit more on the nightmare scenario an active shooter event will be:

Unless you actually see the event begin and unfold in front of you, and you KNOW who the shooter is...the odds of you making things worse, not better, by going looking for them are more predominant.

Consider: you head towards the sound of gunfire, and you see someone with a gun...they don’t see you. Do you engage? What if they’re another armed citizen doing the same thing you are? An off duty/plain clothes cop? Or are they the shooter?

What happens if they engage you? They might well be another armed citizen (or LEO), and they think YOU are the shooter...

What happens when uniformed LE sees you, and possibly engages, or just has to take the time to verify you aren’t the shooter...you’ve taken responders away from the actual shooter.

And so on...those are just off the top of my head.

Too often, we only see ourselves as the hero when we play these scenarios in our heads...we don’t want to imagine we could make it worse...which is wishful thinking at it's worst.

By the bye—this came about from a LONG discussion with a good friend, who is a former member of one of our military's “sharp end” units, and is also a former LEO...not a shrinking violet, but someone who takes a long, cold, calculating look at violence. He said, if he would ever be in that situation...unless he knew without a doubt who the shooter was, he was not going looking...citing examples I gave earlier, and others.

Food for thought.
Click to expand...
Very good response
 
@HansGruber You make an EXTREMELY compelling argument, and part of the reason I've almost stopped carrying spare magazines with my XDM Compact. The odds of being in a standoff with lots of gunfire and needing more ammo is slim to none, and as you say, unless you KNOW who the active shooter is (i.e. you saw it start), you don't need to run towards the sound of the gunfire unless you are part of a response team. In most situations, your goal needs to be to get yourself and your nearby loved ones out of the situation, and away from active gunfire. Use your concealed weapon to that end.

The main compelling argument I see on here in regards to spare magazines is failure of a magazine. I've only personally had a failure requiring a magazine change maybe twice, and it was only in my Ruger Mark II, with rimfire ammo, due to defective bulk 22LR ammo, and I had to clear stovepiped 22LR ammo out of the pistol each time as well. I've not seen a failure of this type with my .380ACP or 9mm weapons, and certainly not with a .38 revolver.
 
Because of 3 major back operations (36 screws, 2 rods full length, multiple fused vertebras) I carry my XDs in a horizontal shoulder rig with 2 spare mags to balance. Also carry a small backpack type bag with small medical supplies, hand sanitizer, face mask, 2 more mags, flashlight/taser combo, extra pain meds, tourniquet and water.
 
One of the things that no one has mentioned much about, the weak link in any magazine fed weapon is the magazine. Granted they are super reliable and almost never ever fail. But the day you think Murphy died he will come back and let you know otherwise. For that reason alone it would seem wise to carry one extra, as a just in case. How many clean their magazines, change springs, check feed lips for cracks? Too many of us myself included take those things for granted. Now what Hans said is very true. If you are in a mass shooting, get yourself and loved ones out of danger and stay out. Let the Police handle the bad guy. If that bad guy is right in front of you then yes defend yourself. But if you have to and you see no other nearby threat then put the gun away don't wave it around unless you have a death wish. Even off duty Police have been shot by someone thinking they were the bad guy.
 
HansGruber said:
So...I'm going to comment on the couple of times people have said they carry a lot of ammo in case of an active shooter... maybe a comment on that situation in general. And this isn’t aimed at anyone in particular...it's something you will often see when these discussions come about.

First off, even just assuming you are getting shots on the actual shooter (more on this in a bit)...the situation is going to be chaotic. You will likely have people behind the target, and between you and the target, and likely moving. Precise, controlled fire is going to be the order of the day—not pumping out suppressing fire. Your bullets don’t know the difference between the bad guy and some kid at the movies (for instance)...and I can guarantee you a grieving family isn’t going to care whose gun fired the bullet. The range will likely be a lot farther than the 20 feet that most people like to practice at...again, precise, controlled fire will, in my view, be a lot more important than having a bunch of bullets on you.

And a bit more on the nightmare scenario an active shooter event will be:

Unless you actually see the event begin and unfold in front of you, and you KNOW who the shooter is...the odds of you making things worse, not better, by going looking for them are more predominant.

Consider: you head towards the sound of gunfire, and you see someone with a gun...they don’t see you. Do you engage? What if they’re another armed citizen doing the same thing you are? An off duty/plain clothes cop? Or are they the shooter?

What happens if they engage you? They might well be another armed citizen (or LEO), and they think YOU are the shooter...

What happens when uniformed LE sees you, and possibly engages, or just has to take the time to verify you aren’t the shooter...you’ve taken responders away from the actual shooter.

And so on...those are just off the top of my head.

Too often, we only see ourselves as the hero when we play these scenarios in our heads...we don’t want to imagine we could make it worse...which is wishful thinking at it's worst.

By the bye—this came about from a LONG discussion with a good friend, who is a former member of one of our military's “sharp end” units, and is also a former LEO...not a shrinking violet, but someone who takes a long, cold, calculating look at violence. He said, if he would ever be in that situation...unless he knew without a doubt who the shooter was, he was not going looking...citing examples I gave earlier, and others.

Food for thought.
Click to expand...
Great insight and wisdom @HansGruber Can't say I've ever thought of what I'd do if I were in such a situation, but you definitely give a lot to think about.

Staying true to the OP's question, wonder if there are folks on here who wear scrubs. Since post-Covid closures, my offices have been wearing scrubs, which makes carrying anything on you very challenging. As such, I don't carry anymore than the magazine in my EDC. As cumbersome as it can be, I do take my Vaultek Lifepod with me everyday with an extra 13 round mag, and in case I do need to remove my EDC from my body.
 
Roadwarrior said:
My every day routine is a double stack carry pistol, with one spare mag. However in the rare occasion I'm carrying a single stack, I will carry 2 spare mags. In both instances, in a mag carrier on my belt.
Click to expand...
Same withe me. If I'm carrying a double stack 9mm, I'll carry one extra mag in a Pit Bull Tactical mag carrier on left side. If I'm carrying my single stack M&P Shield 45, my favorite carry weapon, I'll carry two extra mags, each extra mag in a Blue Star Holsters Magster pouch.
 
I like to use the OEM 15 rd mag in my G19 because i AIWB carry but my one spare mag is G17 with a TTI 4-5 extension which I carry also IWB. If 32+ Rds can’t get me out of a bad situation then I probably made a poor tactical decision. When I carry my G43 I always carry one extended mag on my belt and if I’m using a sling bag when I’m out and about. I’ll carry an extra extended mag in it also.
 
As for the scrubs, I've had good luck with a nice belly band under uber-light clothing (like sweatpants) for my XD-s. Although I generally - even when cycling - wear my IWB Alien Gear holster (4:00 position) and have zero problems and zero printing. That's with cargo shorts over my cycle shorts (I won't make ANYone look at me in cycling shorts!), and a simple basketball-style tank top. The thing with the belly-band though - no belt required, which would be great for string-tie scrubs. All the weight is on the belly band. My cargo shorts, I wear a nylon tac belt.
 
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