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Is a .22LR round plausible for self defense?

GH55 said:
OK all you Rambo's who have shot exactly ZERO people in self defense or even pulled your gun. The question is simple- does a .22LR work on self defense? Yes or no. Not a dissertation on theoretical macho scenarios. There are NO criminals who are going to stop and analyze a gun and say "wait....is that a .22LR? Because the muzzle looks suspiciously small. It is? Well then, let's continue, shall we?"
Just stop. Save the macho for home where it works.
The answer is yes, the .22LR works just fine. Forget the perfect shot, forget the "it better be magical". The person isn't going to be 20 feet away to rob or attack you, they're going to be measured in inches, not feet. Closer to 6 feet would be a better proximity. A .22LR will work just fine. Empty the clip to make sure. Most will turn and run anyway. Those who walk up with gun pulled aren't going to wait until you pull yours anyway.
"Hold on brother, give me a chance to pull out my trusty, never miss, instant killer .45 so we can make this fair".
How many stories do you need of an attacker surviving multiple higher ballistic rounds. It's common, so no.... your magical .45, 9mm, .380, .357 isn't fail proof, even though I know you're an Olympic shooting champion and never miss and always hit your target dead center (at the range trying to impress your friends and wife).
Click to expand...
Welcome to the forum, hope you don't stay long.
 
GH55 said:
OK all you Rambo's who have shot exactly ZERO people in self defense or even pulled your gun. The question is simple- does a .22LR work on self defense? Yes or no. Not a dissertation on theoretical macho scenarios. There are NO criminals who are going to stop and analyze a gun and say "wait....is that a .22LR? Because the muzzle looks suspiciously small. It is? Well then, let's continue, shall we?"
Just stop. Save the macho for home where it works.
The answer is yes, the .22LR works just fine. Forget the perfect shot, forget the "it better be magical". The person isn't going to be 20 feet away to rob or attack you, they're going to be measured in inches, not feet. Closer to 6 feet would be a better proximity. A .22LR will work just fine. Empty the clip to make sure. Most will turn and run anyway. Those who walk up with gun pulled aren't going to wait until you pull yours anyway.
"Hold on brother, give me a chance to pull out my trusty, never miss, instant killer .45 so we can make this fair".
How many stories do you need of an attacker surviving multiple higher ballistic rounds. It's common, so no.... your magical .45, 9mm, .380, .357 isn't fail proof, even though I know you're an Olympic shooting champion and never miss and always hit your target dead center (at the range trying to impress your friends and wife).
Click to expand...
Wow. First post and you got us all figgered out. Bravo.
 
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GH55 said:
OK all you Rambo's who have shot exactly ZERO people in self defense or even pulled your gun. The question is simple- does a .22LR work on self defense? Yes or no. Not a dissertation on theoretical macho scenarios. There are NO criminals who are going to stop and analyze a gun and say "wait....is that a .22LR? Because the muzzle looks suspiciously small. It is? Well then, let's continue, shall we?"
Just stop. Save the macho for home where it works.
The answer is yes, the .22LR works just fine. Forget the perfect shot, forget the "it better be magical". The person isn't going to be 20 feet away to rob or attack you, they're going to be measured in inches, not feet. Closer to 6 feet would be a better proximity. A .22LR will work just fine. Empty the clip to make sure. Most will turn and run anyway. Those who walk up with gun pulled aren't going to wait until you pull yours anyway.
"Hold on brother, give me a chance to pull out my trusty, never miss, instant killer .45 so we can make this fair".
How many stories do you need of an attacker surviving multiple higher ballistic rounds. It's common, so no.... your magical .45, 9mm, .380, .357 isn't fail proof, even though I know you're an Olympic shooting champion and never miss and always hit your target dead center (at the range trying to impress your friends and wife).
Click to expand...
lol, interesting way to jump in, a combination of chastising, insulting, and lecturing all designed to infer he, or she, is more reasonable, knowledgeable and someone who is somewhat superior in thier knowledge and reasoning and should instantly be listened to.

I will assume by clip you are referring to emptying the magazine if one is using a pistol not a revolver?
 
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Welcome to the forum, GH55. This topic, like a lot of others, has been discussed a lot. The thing we sometimes forget is occasionally there are new shooters here who may benefit from the discussion, though it can get a little robust at times. I don’t think there are any Rambo’s here, but there are some very knowledgeable folks. Again, welcome and enjoy your stay. Good to hear yet another opinion.
 
Ok, just to clarify, I am not a gunfighter, I have NO desire to BE a gunfighter, and with God’s grace I will never ever need to use a firearm in self defense. That said, I have Hunted a LOT of game over the past 65 years and I’m going to call BS on the whole “the .22 works just fine” train of thought. Does it beat a sharp stick? You betcha. Can it be lethal? Absolutely. Remember though that “lethality” has nothing to do with a self defense scenario. Your goal is solely to stop the attacker from continuing his attack. If you present a weapon and the thug ceases his actions and runs away, THAT is a successful SD scenario. For THAT scenario a .22 is every bit as effective as a Desert Eagle😏. However, if you have to actually fire, the round used needs to stop the attack, and it needs to do so with the first or second round fired. Anyone who thinks an aggressor is going to stand idly by while you “empty a clip” into them (and it’s a Magazine, NOT a “clip) has been watching WAAYY.Y to many action movies. I have seen a number of critters (coyotes and whistlepigs) a lot smaller and less dangerous than the two legged variety move out pretty well after a hit from rounds a lot stronger than any .22 LR. Yeah, I know that a few years ago a massive Kodak bear was dropped with a single .22 LR round (I’ve also seen the video of Howard Hill stopping a charging bull elephant with a single bow shot), however I’m not that lucky (or that good) and neither are you. Let’s put this another way. I’m going to smack you up the side of the head as hard as I can. You want I should us a balsa yardstick or a baseball bat? Your call. Same thing applies to a defensive firearm. It should be as powerful as YOU can shot well, while being sized so it can be carried daily. End of rant-Shiba out.
 
Shibadog said:
Ok, just to clarify, I am not a gunfighter, I have NO desire to BE a gunfighter, and with God’s grace I will never ever need to use a firearm in self defense. That said, I have Hunter a LOT of game over the past 65 years and I’m going to call BS on the whole “the .22 works just fine” train of thought. Does it beat a sharp stick? You betcha. Can it be lethal? Absolutely. Remember though that “lethality” has nothing to do with a self defense scenario. Your goal is solely to stop the attacker from continuing his attack. If you present a weapon and the thug ceases his actions and runs away, THAT is a successful SD scenario. For THAT scenario a .22 is every bit as effective as a Desert Eagle😏. However, if you have to actually fire, the round used needs to stop the attack, and it needs to do so with the first or second round fired. Anyone who thinks an aggressor is going to stand idly by while you “empty a clip” into them (and it’s a Magazine, NOT a “clip) has been watching WAAYY.Y to many action movies. I have seen a number of critters (coyotes and whistlepigs) a lot smaller and less dangerous than the two legged variety move out pretty well after a hit from rounds a lot stronger than any .22 LR. Yeah, I know that a few years ago a massive Kodak bear was dropped with a single .22 LR round (I’ve also seen the video of Howard Hill stopping a charging bull elephant with a single bow shot), however I’m not that lucky (or that good) and neither are you. Let’s put this another way. I’m going to smack you up the side of the head as hard as I can. You want I should us a balsa yardstick or a baseball bat? Your call. Same thing applies to a defensive firearm. It should be as powerful as YOU can shot well, while being sized so it can be carried daily. End of rant-Shiba out.
Click to expand...
One minor difference between humans and animals…

Animals don’t think “oh my (deity of choice)…I’ve been shot!” and quit over a non-fatal, or even serious wound.

Most people do.
 
GH55 said:
OK all you Rambo's who have shot exactly ZERO people in self defense or even pulled your gun. The question is simple- does a .22LR work on self defense? Yes or no. Not a dissertation on theoretical macho scenarios. There are NO criminals who are going to stop and analyze a gun and say "wait....is that a .22LR? Because the muzzle looks suspiciously small. It is? Well then, let's continue, shall we?"
Just stop. Save the macho for home where it works.
The answer is yes, the .22LR works just fine. Forget the perfect shot, forget the "it better be magical". The person isn't going to be 20 feet away to rob or attack you, they're going to be measured in inches, not feet. Closer to 6 feet would be a better proximity. A .22LR will work just fine. Empty the clip to make sure. Most will turn and run anyway. Those who walk up with gun pulled aren't going to wait until you pull yours anyway.
"Hold on brother, give me a chance to pull out my trusty, never miss, instant killer .45 so we can make this fair".
How many stories do you need of an attacker surviving multiple higher ballistic rounds. It's common, so no.... your magical .45, 9mm, .380, .357 isn't fail proof, even though I know you're an Olympic shooting champion and never miss and always hit your target dead center (at the range trying to impress your friends and wife).
Click to expand...
I am sure that there are many leo's as well as well as military vets here that have in fact had to take a life with a 9mm, .40 , .38 and yes even that "magical .45acp". See, the thing is it is not something one takes lightly or brags about. Rambo was a movie Cuz. Perhaps a less confrontational introduction would get you a warmer reception. Lots of great folks here, if you "Simmah down" you just might find a friend or two. Welcome from N.E. FL.
 
Honestly, this post went downrange from what I was thinking in my head in the OP... it was my first post, sorry. So I am a multi vet and hunter, of course I know a .22 can kill most anything. That was not really what I had in mind when I made an obviously poor choice in titles. I know there are folks here who do carry various .22 revolvers and such, pocket carries, and I assume that having trained with them, they will do the job if needed. Personally I usually carry a 9 or 10, and were I to carry a revolver for some reason, it would probably be my Bulldog Pug 44 Special.

I think, if I remember right, what I was thinking to myself was if I had a safe full of options for CCW, why would I ever choose a .22 over any of the other things... OR, say I am talking to a new guy, about buying his first gun, that would be used for home defense and CCW, would I think to talk .22s to him, or would I go right for a 9/38/45 etc for whatever reason.

So while I have various .22's and we all acknowledge that in the right circumstance they will do the thing, if sitting next to a safe full of all the other options we all have, would picking up the .22 actually be plausible (: superficially fair, reasonable) vs the options? For me the answer is no, the .22s are behind the 9s in the pistol safe.
 
MrMichaelActual said:
Honestly, this post went downrange from what I was thinking in my head in the OP... it was my first post, sorry. So I am a multi vet and hunter, of course I know a .22 can kill most anything. That was not really what I had in mind when I made an obviously poor choice in titles. I know there are folks here who do carry various .22 revolvers and such, pocket carries, and I assume that having trained with them, they will do the job if needed. Personally I usually carry a 9 or 10, and were I to carry a revolver for some reason, it would probably be my Bulldog Pug 44 Special.

I think, if I remember right, what I was thinking to myself was if I had a safe full of options for CCW, why would I ever choose a .22 over any of the other things... OR, say I am talking to a new guy, about buying his first gun, that would be used for home defense and CCW, would I think to talk .22s to him, or would I go right for a 9/38/45 etc for whatever reason.

So while I have various .22's and we all acknowledge that in the right circumstance they will do the thing, if sitting next to a safe full of all the other options we all have, would picking up the .22 actually be plausible (: superficially fair, reasonable) vs the options? For me the answer is no, the .22s are behind the 9s in the pistol safe.
Click to expand...
No, .22s are not optimal for CC.
 
Well .22 ammo has gotten better. There is that. I've been through a brick's worth of Federal Punch and have had no issues. CCI has been equally immune to failure to pew. I just need a good pistol to lug it around in.

I have an NAA but it's reliability makes my Smith and Wessons shine as good as my Glocks (I have terrible luck with S&W). Also, I do like to carry more than 5 if reloading is going to take longer that 2 minutes. I tried the Ruger LCP II, but I cannot seem to group it. Hell, I can't seem to consistently hit the bullseye with it at 10 yards. I'm better than that. I think I'm better than that...

Anyways. If I can find a pistol I am accurate with, is as small or smaller than a Smith CSX/SA Hellkitty in .22 that will reliably cycle Punch rounds, can be or is milled for a dot, and capable of mounting a light. I'm in.

I have an ISSC M22 that meets all of those requirements except for size and Punch rounds. It does like CCI mini-mags though. It will always fire the Fed rounds it just likes to keep the brass in the chamber afterward.
 
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