Hello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled “Lethal Dangers in Extreme Close Quarters Defense” and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/lethal-dangers-in-extreme-close-quarters-defense/.
Lethal Dangers in Extreme Close Quarters Defense
- Thread starter Mike H.
- Start date
Yes. The fella in most of the pix looks thick and heavyset - so a close contact issue might not be as much of a big deal as it would for smaller, less strong person. Let's face it - it can be a crap shoot so train what you can while you can and stay in as best shape as possible. Most ranges will not allow that kind of shooting so private ranges are where its at. Revolvers can be a better choice in these situations but again -having it snatched away is worse the not having it.
Good article. I will say personally I’m not a gan if the whole stand off device and chalk it up to marketing.
Chuck Haggard has an excellent block in his Close Oroximity Handgun where he demonstrated and had everyon so it where you punched the handgun into the target and held the slide. Yea you only got one round but anytime you are tired up you can count on more times than not the slide will fail to cycle if there is any resistance to it.
The private sector instructors and classes offered by Bolke, Hearne Haggard Rangemaster and Gunsite far out perform almost any agnency training other than a couple specialty unit stuff so it’s good to practice a lot of this stuff as most armed confrontation is up close and their hands on you when you get the first indication of something wrong. On point or not they are sharks and wait for the surprise time
Chuck Haggard has an excellent block in his Close Oroximity Handgun where he demonstrated and had everyon so it where you punched the handgun into the target and held the slide. Yea you only got one round but anytime you are tired up you can count on more times than not the slide will fail to cycle if there is any resistance to it.
The private sector instructors and classes offered by Bolke, Hearne Haggard Rangemaster and Gunsite far out perform almost any agnency training other than a couple specialty unit stuff so it’s good to practice a lot of this stuff as most armed confrontation is up close and their hands on you when you get the first indication of something wrong. On point or not they are sharks and wait for the surprise time
HansGruber
Ronin
That method—holding the slide with your thumb—isn’t universal.
If your pistol has a grip safety, you can’t depress it (er-hem, XD series); no bang. If it has a hammer…it’s very easy to get your thumb in its path (I know, I’ve done it trying to keep the slide of a USP locked when shooting suppressed…and that wasn’t under stress).
In short…when it comes to contact shots, you can’t beat a revolver.
When you let the assailant get that close, you are in a world of hurt. While it happens, even to cops, and I speak from experience, you don’t have time to draw, your first inclination is gonna be to get him/her/it off of you. Two methods come to mind; C-clamp his throat, almost any pressure is sufficient to set an attacker back a step, allowing you to disengage and draw. Another way to hurt him is to stomp on his instep or slide the side of your shoe down his shin. Both have worked for when attacked by a suspect, especially by an unarmed suspect, you can’t shoot.
I didn’t mention the thumb or placing the thumb over the back of a slide some Glocks have striker controlled devices and other folks run hammer fired guns obviously a no go. So that’s not the best way as you loose a lot of control.l as well.
You should work on all techniques but one several places touch on as A WAY not The WAY if grab around the front of the slide and grip with the support hand and drive it into the body and pull. yes you will have to not have a guarded position as your support hand not defending the head but as a LEO when I have been in an entanglement over my gun or the suspects the gun gets everyone’s full undivided attention.
The added benefit of a contact shot is the muzzle blast even from smaller caliber rounds will leave a moral. Why in classes most save that demo for last as it obliterates the targets!
HansGruber
Ronin
Yeah, that front of the slide method is about as absolute last ditch as you can get; you lose any defense from your off hand, and it’s been known for people to get their hand in front of the muzzle when practicing it.
Just carry a revolver.
I should have mentioned that one of my concerns involves pushing the suspect away with your weak hand, assuming you are right handed. Average person may have problems with this. Also, you have to, or should, develop a mindset that you are going to fight back, however you can. A recent article I read talked about several Oakland, CA, beating the crap out of a paddy girl. Even Knocked down, she bit the ankle of one of her assailants. While aI doubt that anyone on this site lacks that level of fortitude, there are so many out there who would die than fight back.
Getting long winded here, in summary, be ready to fight back, injure assailant, back up and cap off rounds if justified. Simper fi.
Getting long winded here, in summary, be ready to fight back, injure assailant, back up and cap off rounds if justified. Simper fi.
The issue is to Rob you they have to get close to you. And they usually don’t telegraph what they are doing. The give me your keys wallet and phone happen when they have a knife/gun in your back or close
How close are you walking by people in an aisle in Walmart or a line at the bank? Close enough that your reaction will be too late.
They will start with idle polite what time is it or something and when they serve it will grab you and the fight is on and most people have zero understanding of that but their 3 and 5 yard groups are awesome but they never have practiced close retention shooting without full extension!
i said front but not in a press check way it’s more like in front of the chamber area.
What we taught in Anne Arundel County P.D was a training technique where the shooter was about two feet from the hanging bad guy target. As the officer used their secondary arm to conduct a palm punch to the aggressors nose-painful and causes tearing of the eyes-the officer’s strong side of the body turned slightly away from the target as the pistol was drawn. As the reactionary hand of the office came back to protect the head area, the strong side of the body was turned back toward the target and fired from the close quarters hip position. With a little practice, the officers were getting off two shots even before the hanging cardboard target had fully came back into place. Yes, you have to have a small outside can’t on the firearm to prevent the pistol from going out of battery. We never taught any technique where the officer used the non-shooting hand to push or hold the slide forward. Why would you want to tie up both Hans when you can use the non-shooting hand to create space between yourself and the aggressor, as well as cause pain and impaired vision to the assailant. I must admit that some of our officers were timid and complained about the technique, citing safety concerns. At no time during this technique is any part of the shooters body in front of the muzzle. No to be smart, but we told the officers that we were trying to keep them alive in a violent close quarters situation and, if they so timid about the training then maybe a new career choice would be an option. Again, initial training with this technique was done in slow motion with an empty firearm. After several repartitions, the speed came and finally, it was done with live fire.
HansGruber
Ronin
I know the method…and unless you are carrying a full-size handgun with 4.5” or more of barrel, you’re probably going to some of your hand in front of the muzzle…covering it if you have meaty hands.
It’s just not a good idea, in my book.
Sld1959
Ronin
This
Bassbob
Emissary
Hell nah. When people get too close to me I involuntarily begin to react. Usually back up and my hands either go up in front of me or under my shirt. One of the beautiful things about the corona shite is that I didn't look weird making sure everyone stayed the hell away from me.
It's one of the reasons my wife doesn't care for me going to stores and places with lots of people with her.
Hoping you'll explain the whole "corona shite" thing, lol.
Mr. Untactical
Master Class
Good article that gave me a few things to think about. We've got an ex-FBI trainer in our area (recently spoke at our church) and a couple of us are planning to hit him up for some CCW training. I expect it will include some of this. But, as the article notes, outside of this type of training environment, the opportunities are few to really work on this. Maybe after I'm retired?
And maybe the most valuable tip in the article? Mounting a weapon light that extends past the barrel can act as a "spacer" to help keep/return the firearm in battery in a situation when you have it pressed against the assailant. Best reason I've heard so far to mount a light on my EDC.
#PracticalApplication
And maybe the most valuable tip in the article? Mounting a weapon light that extends past the barrel can act as a "spacer" to help keep/return the firearm in battery in a situation when you have it pressed against the assailant. Best reason I've heard so far to mount a light on my EDC.
#PracticalApplicationWheelingHilda
Elite
Being in a wheelchair-close up is all there is. I practice 3 feet at the range and working on retention draw to the outside of breastbone but I can't shoot 1 handed and need to keep a thumb behind the slide. I do wear a push dagger on a necklace as sitting getting it off a belt is no go. Any suggestions?
I'm a graduate of Paul's CAR instructor course and firmly remember the instruction to punch the sternum with the pistol itself:
1. Without body armor it hurts the target like hell (with the possibility of making them reconsider their course of action)
2. You can tell pretty quickly if they *do* have body armor and adjust the necessary shot appropriately
3. Since it's a true punch, it's out and back and gives you the clearance to fire without fouling the slide.
Key Factor:
Ergonomically, as you punch you should also be moving your feet at a 45-degree angle away from the target to get out from the forward-backward and side-to-side axis. We all know you can never back peddle as fast as you can go forward and never quickly move fast enough sideways to get away from their reach. The exercise with a friend is to stand face-to-face with them at arm's length and have them reach out and touch your nose with a finger (boop!). Then, you take that 45-degree rear step and ask them to try again. If you've done it properly, they can't reach you forwards or sideways but oddly enough, you should be able to reach them and will be - very briefly - in their blindspot. Obviously, situational awareness is key since this is based on the room you have to move but even a footstep back at a 45 can make the difference in getting briefly outside their reach and tunnel vision (and may help break yours).
I know this might not make sense right off but gently and slowly try this exercise with a friend and see for yourself. Feel free to reach out to me with any questions.
-Doc-
1. Without body armor it hurts the target like hell (with the possibility of making them reconsider their course of action)
2. You can tell pretty quickly if they *do* have body armor and adjust the necessary shot appropriately
3. Since it's a true punch, it's out and back and gives you the clearance to fire without fouling the slide.
Key Factor:
Ergonomically, as you punch you should also be moving your feet at a 45-degree angle away from the target to get out from the forward-backward and side-to-side axis. We all know you can never back peddle as fast as you can go forward and never quickly move fast enough sideways to get away from their reach. The exercise with a friend is to stand face-to-face with them at arm's length and have them reach out and touch your nose with a finger (boop!). Then, you take that 45-degree rear step and ask them to try again. If you've done it properly, they can't reach you forwards or sideways but oddly enough, you should be able to reach them and will be - very briefly - in their blindspot. Obviously, situational awareness is key since this is based on the room you have to move but even a footstep back at a 45 can make the difference in getting briefly outside their reach and tunnel vision (and may help break yours).
I know this might not make sense right off but gently and slowly try this exercise with a friend and see for yourself. Feel free to reach out to me with any questions.
-Doc-
Sorry to say, Hilda, but in a wheelchair, a knife is only usable if the suspect makes a grab for you. Otherwise, you should depend on a firearm, preferably a wheelgun. You are in a conundrum as to defense. If the suspect stays at a distance, i.e. more than 3 feet, you will have to depend on an accessible handgun.