No politics involved

[the obsrver]

Man, that's an ugly way to look at things. It's one thing to joke about, another to fully believe it. I have a lot of misplaced trust in society, most of it undeserved. Every now and again, some sliver of light shines through, that's worth getting up for. If i looked at things the way you described above, I wouldn't leave the house. I have to believe there's more out there.

The old joke goes if I would have killed my ex instead of getting a divorce, I would be out of jail by now and saved a lot of money.
It is a joke........right??
It is funny because often times it is true.
Now I am not saying people should do that, what I am pointing out is the risk reward way that people think. Fix that risk reward problem and you solve a whole bunch of problems. They have tried stiff punishments, but they have never tried making it so it is worth while for people to choose to do the right thing.
It is a bleak outlook, because it is true. I hate to break it to you, but there is nothing in the world that indicates that it is getting better. Maybe that is why mother nature is responding the way it is. The earth is great. It's the people that are the problem. Not all people, but far to many.
If you believe in the bible, it says that will happen. What is the end result? Bad gets really really bad, before it finally comes to an end. We are over due for something big, like a volcano, comet or something (science and odds say so)
Even back in the biblical days, they saw the downward trajectory of man. They knew that eventually man would become so wicked it would destroy itself.
Can the course be changed? Maybe. Maybe that is what makes it hard to leave the house. When you can see very clearly what to do and what not to do, but you are nobody and nobody listens to nobody. As I said above, you have to be good at playing a game, good at pretending, or be willing to compromise yourself for money (and get some) before people listen.

So whatever. meh mankind had a good run, but the house always wins.

 

[HansGruber]

Agreed.

Also, Swiss have more free gun laws and mandatory military service , yet their crime rate is super low. Everyone is armed and everyone knows how to use a gun due to military transcription

Ever been to Switzerland?

I have…it’s not like you think it is.

Sure, they have their issue weapons at home…but they CANNOT (and WILL NOT) use them without authorization from national command authority—eg, national emergency/invasion.

They could see something going down right in front of their home, and it is drilled into them that they cannot use their issued weapon to stop it. Period. If they do, they’re going to prison. Period.

Not only that, the country is incredibly liberal; it is the very epitome of a European social democracy…and it’s a great place to live, according to those I know who live there.

Additionally, to address the opening topic…this country had conscription in the 1960’s…exactly how much did it bring the nation together, exactly, then?

 

[javbike]

Reading all this stuff is pretty heavy

 

[TidalWave]

I’m all for my fellow countrymen wanting to serve the public good. I am however completely opposed to compulsory service. Not only is it unconstitutional and unAmerican, but it would not achieve the goal of transforming the young men of this country into law abiding citizens.
The increase in violence, lawlessness and apathy in this country is due to many factors, which I could discuss at length except for the fact that it would violate forum rules.
I can say that if you look at the communities in which these problems run rampant you will find a handful of common denominators that will give you a clue as to what the real, underlying issues are.

Reading all this stuff is pretty heavy

Jav, you’ll find the intellect here runs the gamut from Hans G all the way down to Ann….well, never mind…..
Point is: We Got It All !!!

 

[TidalWave]

Reading all this stuff is pretty heavy

Jav, you’ll find the intellect here runs the gamut from Hans G all the way down to Ann…. well, never mind…..
Point is: We Got It All !!!

 

[the obsrver]

Reading all this stuff is pretty heavy

It's ok, it is just life. My wife gets really freaked out so I do not say many things to her and am constantly telling her that it will be ok. I mean you do not tell someone like her, well we are all ******.
Me? Well it does not matter. I have almost died a couple times. I have made my peace with it all and am not scared of much of anything anymore. It is what it is. At this point living another 40 years scares me far more than dying. (there is that risk reward thing again)
Remember that show Thelma and Louise? ( I don't, but I do know they drive off a cliff together). You can either sit in the passenger seat and freak out that your are driving off a cliff, or you can say he11 yeah, bring it on.
Like so many other things, perception and state of mind play a big part.

 

[TidalWave]

Ever been to Switzerland?

I have…it’s not like you think it is.

Sure, they have their issue weapons at home…but they CANNOT (and WILL NOT) use them without authorization from national command authority—eg, national emergency/invasion.

They could see something going down right in front of their home, and it is drilled into them that they cannot use their issued weapon to stop it. Period. If they do, they’re going to prison. Period.

Not only that, the country is incredibly liberal; it is the very epitome of a European social democracy…and it’s a great place to live, according to those I know who live there.

Additionally, to address the opening topic…this country had conscription in the 1960’s…exactly how much did it bring the nation together, exactly, then?

HG is correct about the mil rifles - they may be at home for expediency sake but are definitely not for personal or discretionary use…
Another thing, however: this shows the Swiss conservative side - you do not have the “presumption of innocence” in Switzerland’s criminal justice system, if memory serves me. It takes a bit of effort to get in [serious] trouble there, but once you make that effort the authorities are only too happy to oblige you. Any Swiss would think twice before pulling a gun, regardless of the situation…

 

[the obsrver]

Oh and I have been saying since I was a kid, that if we volunteer to be incarnated, this is my last tour. If anyone knows me in the next life, slap me if I start thinking coming back here is a good idea. You know the trajectory of it all.
You see I have a theory. People like movie stars, athletes, politicians and the wealthy do not think clearly. How can they, when they are afraid of losing something? Looks, the ability to play a game, power and money.
They are scared ****less of losing those things. That right there clouds their judgement on what is good and what is not. On what is right and what is not. YET these are the people that everyone listens to. Allows to govern them and lead them.
Imagine going into battle and every person above you, leading you and making decisions was scared ****less.
Would they make good leaders? Would you trust their decision making abilities?
Now the path to enlightenment is never ending but I can tell you now that making decisions with fear or out of fear, never works out all that well.
Which is exactly what they try to do to sell the public on something. Create fear and then they will go along with it.
"Women, your rights are being violated if you can not work a mans job". Creating a fear. Caused a whole movement. Took both parents out of the home. Flooded the job market. Lowered wages. Ruined the middle class. All because they created a fear that somehow a woman that takes care of her kids instead of working is somehow oppressed and less than. That she is not driven. If they are oppressed, why don't wealthy women work as much? So is it oppression or is it freedom to choose if they want to work or stay home with the kids? Wealthy women have the freedom to choose, the rest do not have a choice, they have to work. So which is oppressed??
Omg we are all going to die of the flu. We are never going to see tp again. Nobody is ever going to make ammo again. AND on and on.

 

[Recusant]

I got this from Wikipedia so it must be factual:

Firearms regulation in Switzerland allows the acquisition of semi-automatic, and -with a may-issue permit- fully automatic firearms, by Swiss citizens and foreigners with or without permanent residence.[note 1][2] The laws pertaining to the acquisition of firearms in Switzerland are amongst the most liberal in the world.[3] Swiss gun laws are primarily about the acquisition of arms, and not ownership. As such a license is not required to own a gun by itself, but a shall-issue permit is required to purchase most types of firearms. Bolt-action rifles do not require an acquisition permit, and can be acquired with just a background check.[4] A reason is not required to be issued an acquisition permit for semi-automatics unless the reason is other than sport-shooting, hunting, or collecting.[5] Permits for concealed carrying in public are issued sparingly.[note 2][6] The acquisition of fully automatic weapons, suppressors and target lasers requires special permits issued by the cantonal firearms office.[7] Over-the-counter sale of hollow-point and soft-point ammunition is limited to hunting.[8]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_Switzerland#HeroSection

There's a Swiss guy who posts on another forum all the full-autos he buys. He has a darn nice collection. If I could yodel I'd consider moving there.

 

[Bassbob]

I got this from Wikipedia so it must be factual:

Firearms regulation in Switzerland allows the acquisition of semi-automatic, and -with a may-issue permit- fully automatic firearms, by Swiss citizens and foreigners with or without permanent residence.[note 1][2] The laws pertaining to the acquisition of firearms in Switzerland are amongst the most liberal in the world.[3] Swiss gun laws are primarily about the acquisition of arms, and not ownership. As such a license is not required to own a gun by itself, but a shall-issue permit is required to purchase most types of firearms. Bolt-action rifles do not require an acquisition permit, and can be acquired with just a background check.[4] A reason is not required to be issued an acquisition permit for semi-automatics unless the reason is other than sport-shooting, hunting, or collecting.[5] Permits for concealed carrying in public are issued sparingly.[note 2][6] The acquisition of fully automatic weapons, suppressors and target lasers requires special permits issued by the cantonal firearms office.[7] Over-the-counter sale of hollow-point and soft-point ammunition is limited to hunting.[8]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_Switzerland#HeroSection

There's a Swiss guy who posts on another forum all the full-autos he buys. He has a darn nice collection. If I could yodel I'd consider moving there.

So all that stuff in that post appeals to you eh? You do realize you can buy full autos here too right. You think it's cheaper or easier in Switzerland ? Not one single thing in that wiki link you quoted is better than what I have it right now here in Missouri. And I don't need to yodel or wear those stupid green shorts with built in suspenders.

 

[Recusant]

There are some states here that don't allow NFA weapons to be sold, and yes you are correct you can purchase them in the states that allow it. However, you need to check out the prices of these 4 guns in this Swiss gun shop and compare them with what you would pay here in the US. Today's exchange rate is a 1.00 Swiss to 1.09 US. I put in the swiss exchange rate so folks can see for themselves by typing in the amount after the letters CHF. For example, tell me where you could buy the UK59 7.62x54R CZ LMG for under 2 grand? I doubt that you could even find the Arsenal AK in semi-auto for what the full auto here cost.

Automaten (gunshop.azurewebsites.net)

https://www.bing.com/search?q=swiss...AA2D0EB8A94D70A9689D78E298CCA4&FORM=QBRE&sp=1

 

[Bassbob]

There are some states here that don't allow NFA weapons to be sold, and yes you are correct you can purchase them in the states that allow it. However, you need to check out the prices of these 4 guns in this Swiss gun shop and compare them with what you would pay here in the US. Today's exchange rate is a 1.00 Swiss to 1.09 US. I put in the swiss exchange rate so folks can see for themselves by typing in the amount after the letters CHF. For example, tell me where you could buy the UK59 7.62x54R CZ LMG for under 2 grand? I doubt that you could even find the Arsenal AK in semi-auto for what the full auto here cost.

Automaten (gunshop.azurewebsites.net)

https://www.bing.com/search?q=swiss...AA2D0EB8A94D70A9689D78E298CCA4&FORM=QBRE&sp=1

Far be it from me to dissuade you from your dream brother, but no way in hell I would move to Switzerland. I very seriously doubt any old Swiss dude, much less an ex pat American, can just stroll into a Canon office and get approval to by a cheap machine gun.

Not to mention the fact that other than playing with it on the range you really aren't going to ever be able to use it. You aren't going to be strolling around Geneva with a Glock in your pants either. You think using a gun in self defense here is a legal nightmare.

 

[TEXASforLIFE]

With all that has been posted before this post, it looks like no 1 would give up this country for another 1? Most are set in our ways! The freedom of this country is mostly appreciated and greatly overrun by those escaping their country by any means necessary! The freedom of this country has its faults and perks. Small countries with men (and or women) at the ready (active military and ones with commissioned firearms) know it takes a nation for survival and security. Those countries have a greater risk and the past has been a lesson for those. Even large countries like Russia not being at the ready showed risk. For our country it will be difficult to be overrun against another country (s) and our 2A provides that security. This country has its weak points and can be exploited. There is a lot too learn from countries without a freedom of arms. History will teach you a lot for right and wrongs! A time of declarated war and a few that weren't has shown what this country can ensure when together. This is not a war promotion, just a better/bigger picture for standing with arms locked together in unison. Whether it be Switzerland, Norway, Poland or North Africa and seeing their laws not helping to save their country even at a high risk of prison to death for punishment. So is there any positives from another country that could help this 1? I honestly don't know!

 

[the obsrver]

With all that has been posted before this post, it looks like no 1 would give up this country for another 1? Most are set in our ways! The freedom of this country is mostly appreciated and greatly overrun by those escaping their country by any means necessary! The freedom of this country has its faults and perks. Small countries with men (and or women) at the ready (active military and ones with commissioned firearms) know it takes a nation for survival and security. Those countries have a greater risk and the past has been a lesson for those. Even large countries like Russia not being at the ready showed risk. For our country it will be difficult to be overrun against another country (s) and our 2A provides that security. This country has its weak points and can be exploited. There is a lot too learn from countries without a freedom of arms. History will teach you a lot for right and wrongs! A time of declarated war and a few that weren't has shown what this country can ensure when together. This is not a war promotion, just a better/bigger picture for standing with arms locked together in unison. Whether it be Switzerland, Norway, Poland or North Africa and seeing their laws not helping to save their country even at a high risk of prison to death for punishment. So is there any positives from another country that could help this 1? I honestly don't know!

Idk, my wife and I have mentioned to each other a few times that maybe we should sell it all and go live as epat's.
But yes finding the right country is a little hard to do.

 

[javbike]

Idk, my wife and I have mentioned to each other a few times that maybe we should sell it all and go live as epat's.
But yes finding the right country is a little hard to do.

My wife and I has talk about it but where to move is the question we don’t know we are pretty settled in California not like most we can afford it Because we are old school California been around a while hopefully we don’t grow old being a fool