Prodigy 5in w/HEX Dragonfly

[Bear458]

With all of this talk about SA fine customer service, I contacted them by using the form on their website, asking for recommendations about what I believe is a design flaw or even a safety hazard with their loaded chamber indicator being only about 1/4" away from the red dot lens and spewing so much debris that it makes it almost impossible to see through the red dot. After over a week of waiting, nothing.

So I contacted them this time by phone. After describing the problem to the rep, he replied that he has heard this complaint before, but he has no suggestions other than trying another red dot. He said SA does not have a barrel without the chamber indicator so replacement is not an option.

Trying another red dot is an expensive chance because it would require buying another optics plate and another red dot (if I didn't have another one) on the outside chance that it might make a difference (I doubt it). It's not a problem with the Hex Dragonfly red dot, it's a problem because SA put an unnecessary loaded chamber indicator practically on top of the red dot front lens. If on the outside chance a different red dot made a difference, I would have wasted my money on a Hex red dot and mount that fits only Prodigys. So in the end that discussion went nowhere, but at least he was kind enough to listen.

My next question concerned the Hex red dot itself. I purchased my Prodigy with the Hex Dragonfly and when I first got the combo, I wasn't overly happy with the Hex, but it did it's job and it looked good. I've noticed lately that the red dot has changed from a relatively circular shaped red dot to a more fractured red dot surrounded by hundreds of little red specs. No amount of trying to clean the lens has made any difference.

I'm wondering if perhaps the hot gases containing small particles coming out of the chamber indicator are somehow fusing themselves onto the front lens. When I look through the red dot at an angle, it appears that there is a three dimensional look to the specs. It's hard to describe. At any rate, SA has sent a return authorization and has authorized replacing the Hex red dot. I wrapped it up and sent it away and it has arrived at SA today, Friday, and hopefully it won't take too long to receive a replacement. I'm eager to see just how much better this red dot looks and really eager to see if after shooting a few hundred rounds if the specs appear on this new red dot.

While I'm waiting for my replacement Hex red dot, I'm also considering sending the barrel away and having the chamber indicator welded and blended. It's relatively cheap to have done and it might be the ideal time to get it done. If there is any chance that the gases have caused the specs on the red dot lens, I would hate to have the new Hex have the same thing done to it. I don't really have any proof that is what caused the red dot damage, but it's a theory.
Just out of curiosity, has anyone else with the Hex Dragonfly (or any other brand of red dot) noticed this problem? If this chamber hole is spewing out hot particles that are damaging the red dot lens it seems like it would be affecting other red dots. Like I said, it's just a theory, it might be a problem with the Hex red dot and have nothing to do with the chamber hole.

Anyway, I have to give SA customer service a passing grade. I wish they could have offered a solution for the chamber indicator problem, but I understand as that's more of a poor decision by engineering to place the hole right next to the red dot. But as far as tackling the problem with the replacement Hex, I give them a thumbs up.

I received both of my RMA's yesterday after only 2 days. Myself and others have noticed the same issue with the "LCI". I'm considering buying a bull barrel from another company and seeing how that works out.

Springfield has been using those "LCI" holes for over 15 years. I think they should have considered that when designing this particular pistol.

 

[dajogejr]

I honestly don’t have the dirty lens issue with my Holosun 407 or 507C.
The S&W Competitor I just sold…that…was bad.

There’s a guy in Holland MI that will weld and blend the barrel.

RLB…how is this a safety hazard? It could get smudged by your hand racking the slide, rain…etc, but safety hazard not sure how I could draw that conclusion?

Holosun is a good dot for the money…and I’ve probably hit nearly 3500 plus rounds through mine.
I don’t have that any issues.

 

[RLB]

I honestly don’t have the dirty lens issue with my Holosun 407 or 507C.
The S&W Competitor I just sold…that…was bad.

There’s a guy in Holland MI that will weld and blend the barrel.

RLB…how is this a safety hazard? It could get smudged by your hand racking the slide, rain…etc, but safety hazard not sure how I could draw that conclusion?

Holosun is a good dot for the money…and I’ve probably hit nearly 3500 plus rounds through mine.
I don’t have that any issues.

To me any time you can't see through the red dot, it's a safety hazard. And it's not like you can shoot all day and only need to clean the lens at the end of the shooting session. You literally have to clean the lens every 50 rounds or so or all you get is a dirty lens that you almost can't see through, and this only causes the red dot to look like a big starburst instead of a dot. It's not happening because I've smudged the lens with my hand, it's because SA put that ridiculous LCI about 1/4" away from the red dot lens and the gases shooting out of it have nowhere else to go but to spread out and cover the lens.

Don't get me wrong, I have several pistols with red dots and they all get dirty, but none as bad as this Prodigy and this Hex red dot combo. I have several brands of red dots and they all get dirty to some extent. It's unavoidable. But the one thing I don't have is another pistol with the LCI located so close to the red dot. All red dots will get dirty and it depends on just how close they are to the breech of the barrel. Generally there's a bit more room than on the 1911/2011 platform which is extremely close, but it's compounded when there is a LCI right next to the red dot lens.

It's not really an ammo problem. I shoot only brand new, name brands of ammo and no reloads.

I don't mean to make a mountain out of a molehill, but it is frustrating because the LCI IMO is really unneeded and just aggravates the problem. I have reached out to DSC Gunworks to inquire about their turnaround time to have problem resolved. I might decide to have that done.

I've recently had a problem with my Hex red dot which may or may not be related to this LCI problem. After reaching about 600 rounds through the pistol, I've noticed that when I look through the red dot instead of a distinct dot, I see hundreds of little red specs surrounding the dot in sort of a starburst pattern. I've tried to clean the lens and nothing removes those specs. I don't know if it's a problem with the red dot or not, but I'm wondering if possibly the hot gases and particles expelled from the LCI are somehow fusing themselves to the lens of the red dot. I've tried several times to clean the lens with no result. I did contact SA and they are sending out a new Hex red dot, but if it is caused by those hot gases, the problem will return in time. Like I said, I'm not saying that is the cause, but it seems at least a possibility.

OK, I'm done whining. Like I've said before, the Prodigy is a fantastic pistol and easily one of favorite handguns in my collection. It has more than surpassed my expectations of it with the one glaring problem with the LCI and the red dot. Perhaps that's why this one problem is so irritating. I just wonder how many others have experienced this problem with their Prodigy and the Hex red dot. Even the SA rep said he has had others complaining about the same thing.
We'll see what happens.

 

[SimonRL]

To me any time you can't see through the red dot, it's a safety hazard. And it's not like you can shoot all day and only need to clean the lens at the end of the shooting session. You literally have to clean the lens every 50 rounds or so or all you get is a dirty lens that you almost can't see through, and this only causes the red dot to look like a big starburst instead of a dot. It's not happening because I've smudged the lens with my hand, it's because SA put that ridiculous LCI about 1/4" away from the red dot lens and the gases shooting out of it have nowhere else to go but to spread out and cover the lens.

Don't get me wrong, I have several pistols with red dots and they all get dirty, but none as bad as this Prodigy and this Hex red dot combo. I have several brands of red dots and they all get dirty to some extent. It's unavoidable. But the one thing I don't have is another pistol with the LCI located so close to the red dot. All red dots will get dirty and it depends on just how close they are to the breech of the barrel. Generally there's a bit more room than on the 1911/2011 platform which is extremely close, but it's compounded when there is a LCI right next to the red dot lens.

It's not really an ammo problem. I shoot only brand new, name brands of ammo and no reloads.

I don't mean to make a mountain out of a molehill, but it is frustrating because the LCI IMO is really unneeded and just aggravates the problem. I have reached out to DSC Gunworks to inquire about their turnaround time to have problem resolved. I might decide to have that done.

I've recently had a problem with my Hex red dot which may or may not be related to this LCI problem. After reaching about 600 rounds through the pistol, I've noticed that when I look through the red dot instead of a distinct dot, I see hundreds of little red specs surrounding the dot in sort of a starburst pattern. I've tried to clean the lens and nothing removes those specs. I don't know if it's a problem with the red dot or not, but I'm wondering if possibly the hot gases and particles expelled from the LCI are somehow fusing themselves to the lens of the red dot. I've tried several times to clean the lens with no result. I did contact SA and they are sending out a new Hex red dot, but if it is caused by those hot gases, the problem will return in time. Like I said, I'm not saying that is the cause, but it seems at least a possibility.

OK, I'm done whining. Like I've said before, the Prodigy is a fantastic pistol and easily one of favorite handguns in my collection. It has more than surpassed my expectations of it with the one glaring problem with the LCI and the red dot. Perhaps that's why this one problem is so irritating. I just wonder how many others have experienced this problem with their Prodigy and the Hex red dot. Even the SA rep said he has had others complaining about the same thing.
We'll see what happens.

Did you clean the emitter. When you see all those specs that is typically caused by dirt on the emitter, not the lens.

FWIW, I run a DeltaPoint Pro on my Prodigy and it sits higher than any other red dot. It does get fogged pretty badly after about 100 rds, but not so badly that I can’t use it.

FWIW Part 2 - I’m on record saying that I think the LCI in the chamber was a stupid idea. I will be sending my barrel to dscgunworks to have the LCI filled and blended. For $60 it is well worth doing.

Weld & Blend Loaded Chamber Indicator

This is a SERVICE not a product. *This price includes return shipping at time of fulfillment Only for 1911/2011 style. Please when sending in send to: Dave Simcik 270 W 21st street Holland, Michigan 49423 *This price includes return shipping

dscgunworks.com

 

[dajogejr]

While I disagree on it being a safety issue…to each their own.

I feel for you…as any other optic will require a plate change. RMR being the most common which handles the Trijicon and Holosun models…and others.
I “think” the Holosun sits a bit back…you may also take a look at the Trijicon SRO. sits high, has a nice hooded shroud…

SimonRL beat me to it… try compressed air on the emitter.

Also, I‘m with you… the LCI is stupid. Don’t have one on my Canik or my X5 Legion…sure don’t miss it.
OSC Gunworks is the one I was talking about in Holland MI.

FYI.. I picked up a box of new Blazer on sale, it ran dirtier than the reloads I run.
It’s about powder not the new/reman cases.

RLB…for now, I have a Holosun 407C I’d send you to test out if you wanted, but again, you’d have to get a new plate. Luckily, it’s the RMR foot print.
Not sure about the Hex, but with the 407C it co-witnesses very nicely as well.

 

[RLB]

@SimonRL..Yes I did clean the emitter as best as possible.
To me the LCI was poor planning on the part of SA. I will more than likely send my barrel in for work to eliminate the source of the problem.

@dajogejr..thank you for your offer, but I have a couple of spare Holosun 509t's I could use but hate to spend the money on a new optics plate. If they worked I would still be left with a Hex red dot that I wouldn't be able to use on any other pistol. For now I would rather try to find a solution using the red dot I already have before I spend any more money.

It's just irritating because SA could have seen this problem and rectified it before bringing the Prodigy to market.

 

[dajogejr]

Heard. Mixed reviews on the the Hex out there, but you could probably say the same about a lot of things.
Honestly, I think you’re spending money one way or the other.
Getting the Hex fixed won’t resolve your dirty glass issue, so at that point, it’s either gonna be get the barrel welded and blended or…a new optic plate.
Luckily, neither is too expensive of a journey since you already have another optic. A new optic plate gives you more flexibility in optics, and you may end up doing both….welding and new plate for other optics.

I’m thinking..somewhere in a room for legal and liability reasons, a LCI was brought up and agreed upon.

My Prodigy is a Commander length, I don’t know if that means anything or not.

It wasn’t a decision made by a shooter, I can guarantee that one. I’m not a fan of any LCI.. but I can tell you, if I gotta have something, I don’t mind the striker active feature they put on Canik. I realize it’s not the same thing, but…It’s acceptable to me.

When you get a chance, watch the Jerry Miculek video on the new Smith and Wesson Competitor. He’s been a S&W guy for like 25 years I think, and Vortex… he mentioned the dirt on the window and I agree with him, it was horrible. With a DPP on mine, one to two mags and it was filthy. It’s the only pistol I had an issue with and all mine are optics mounted except my carry P320.

I’ve heard/read from others the SRO from Trijicon cuts down the optic getting dirty for that particular pistol.

Good luck RLB, if you go the weld and blend route, let us know the experience. Holland MI for me is a 3.5 to 4 hour drive…I’d think about making it if I experienced your issues.

 

[RLB]

My opinion on the Hex is that it's an OK basic red dot, but there are a lot of others out there that are better. I got it mainly to try it out and put a SA optic on my SA pistol. It's OK in this application but I won't be buying it for use on other non SA pistols. More than likely I will stick with it because if I don't use it on my Prodigy I won't have a use for it at all.

My Prodigy is also the 4.25" Commander and I really don't think it matters. Any difference between the 4.25" and the 5" versions are just the extra .75" barrel length. Other than that the two are identical.

You're right the LCI is probably for legal reasons, however to me it looks perfectly useless. It's not like some other chamber indicators that give you a visible and a tactile way to check to see if the chamber is loaded. With the SA LCI it's almost impossible to tell if the chamber has a cartridge unless you use a flashlight and that just isn't practical.

Like you mentioned, there are limited options. The two that I am considering is either having the barrel welded and blended or just learning to live with the dirt. The Prodigy really is an outstanding pistol. It's a shame that SA couldn't have made it even better by leaving off the LCI.

If I decide to have the barrel welded and blended, I'll report on how it all turned out. Thanks for your suggestions.

 

[dajogejr]

Gotcha…title of the thread is 5”…and I didn’t go back to look at if you were the OP or not.
It’s a great pistol indeed. I put an EGW ignition kit in mine and with a few hundred rounds down range, the trigger has settled into a nice 2.25lb pull or so, clean, crisp…

I shot a Stacatto P yesterday at the range, rental gun. Clearly, not taken care of. iron sites. Good shooting pistol.
I’m glad I did, and I’m not saying the prodigy is a better gun overall. I can tell you for the money…my Prodigy serves me just fine. I even have a second sear spring for it in case I put it in to my carry routine. That trigger is simply too light for me to carry it.

Good luck to ya.

 

[RLB]

I've never had the chance to handle a Staccato. I don't doubt that it is the better gun, but right now I don't think that I'm going to rush out and get one. The Prodigy has created sort of an interesting problem. It's a good enough pistol that even though there are higher quality ones out there, the Prodigy has turned out to be so good that I'm not sure that it's worth it to me right now to get anything better.

The Staccato is by all accounts a better quality pistol but that incremental amount of quality comes at quite a price. I'm just not ready to sink that much money into another almost similar firearm. I might work my way up to it but not right now, and if I eventually do I might go with the C2 for something just a bit smaller.

That doesn't mean that I haven't given up on getting another 2011 style pistol. The BUL SAS II 4.25" Pro model with a ported barrel is looking especially nice right now. It splits the hair between Prodigy price and quality, and brings in (from what I've heard) similar Staccato quality at a cheaper price. I like to try a variety of different guns and even though the BUL is very similar to the Prodigy, it does offer enough different features to make it worth looking at.

But even that one has been put off for a while because I have a Dan Wesson DWX incoming. Should be here tomorrow.

 

[Addison3]

Agreed. Worse is finding out the owners manual doesn't state the diameter of the fiber optic rod. Nor does the manaul or the SA website offer the replacement rods.

You made a really good point about the size of the fiber installed. I also have been hunting down what the correct size is due to reading about others having problems with broken fiber or just falling out. The first place I looked was the manual and sure enough I could find anything related to its size.
Lets hope you have seen the last of your problems and and up a happy Prodigy owner.

 

[Bragah]

I've never had the chance to handle a Staccato. I don't doubt that it is the better gun, but right now I don't think that I'm going to rush out and get one. The Prodigy has created sort of an interesting problem. It's a good enough pistol that even though there are higher quality ones out there, the Prodigy has turned out to be so good that I'm not sure that it's worth it to me right now to get anything better.

The Staccato is by all accounts a better quality pistol but that incremental amount of quality comes at quite a price. I'm just not ready to sink that much money into another almost similar firearm. I might work my way up to it but not right now, and if I eventually do I might go with the C2 for something just a bit smaller.

That doesn't mean that I haven't given up on getting another 2011 style pistol. The BUL SAS II 4.25" Pro model with a ported barrel is looking especially nice right now. It splits the hair between Prodigy price and quality, and brings in (from what I've heard) similar Staccato quality at a cheaper price. I like to try a variety of different guns and even though the BUL is very similar to the Prodigy, it does offer enough different features to make it worth looking at.

But even that one has been put off for a while because I have a Dan Wesson DWX incoming. Should be here tomorrow.

Depends on the Staccato.
I've shot both a C and C2 and I frankly thought they were mediocre at best.

Would like to try a Staccato P to compare it to the Prodigy, but as for the C and C2, the Prodigy is worlds better to shoot. With the P, you're talking a grand more base cost with the optic cut.

Most of these smaller '2011' style guns coming out have aluminum frames, which sure, they're lighter and better for carry, but that reduction in weight makes the guns recoil increase substantially. It's very noticeable.

 

[SimonRL]

You made a really good point about the size of the fiber installed. I also have been hunting down what the correct size is due to reading about others having problems with broken fiber or just falling out. The first place I looked was the manual and sure enough I could find anything related to its size.
Lets hope you have seen the last of your problems and and up a happy Prodigy owner.

According to the internet the FO rod size is .060. If you call SA they will send you a couple for free.

 

[dajogejr]

Depends on the Staccato.
I've shot both a C and C2 and I frankly thought they were mediocre at best.

Would like to try a Staccato P to compare it to the Prodigy, but as for the C and C2, the Prodigy is worlds better to shoot. With the P, you're talking a grand more base cost with the optic cut.

Most of these smaller '2011' style guns coming out have aluminum frames, which sure, they're lighter and better for carry, but that reduction in weight makes the guns recoil increase substantially. It's very noticeable.

I shot the P yesterday. As I said, it was a range rental and not taken care of, first thing I did was throw a few drops of oil on rails, barrel and hood. Worked that in.
My Prodigy feels like it’s on ball bearings, compared to that pistol which felt like it was a cheap striker fired.
Again…not the fault of the gun, range rental, clearly not well taken care of or maintained.

For 4.4” barrel, iron sights, it was a damn good shooter to be honest.
But I couldn’t justify the extra price for now, especially with the upgraded ignition in my prodigy that cost 150ish with tax and shipping from EGW. It cleaned up the action and their sear spring lets you get sub 3lbs easily and reliably.

I would bet, with a little trigger work, properly maintained Stacatto, It would have absolutely been a different experience.

@Addison3 , as Simon said. Its .060 and I tried to find some on my own, Springfield has 4 rods total, two red, two green, in the mail and I had it within a week. They give you enough fiber to do it a several times in each color.

From my archery background using much, much finer fiber, .010 to .019, best best is trim it, heat up a flat screwdriver head and press it to the fiber to flatten it out. Insert through the front (shooter facing side, then heat up the back end until it’s tight. You mess up, get another piece.

 

[SimonRL]

I shot the P yesterday. As I said, it was a range rental and not taken care of, first thing I did was throw a few drops of oil on rails, barrel and hood. Worked that in.
My Prodigy feels like it’s on ball bearings, compared to that pistol which felt like it was a cheap striker fired.
Again…not the fault of the gun, range rental, clearly not well taken care of or maintained.

For 4.4” barrel, iron sights, it was a damn good shooter to be honest.
But I couldn’t justify the extra price for now, especially with the upgraded ignition in my prodigy that cost 150ish with tax and shipping from EGW. It cleaned up the action and their sear spring lets you get sub 3lbs easily and reliably.

I would bet, with a little trigger work, properly maintained Stacatto, It would have absolutely been a different experience.

@Addison3 , as Simon said. Its .060 and I tried to find some on my own, Springfield has 4 rods total, two red, two green, in the mail and I had it within a week. They give you enough fiber to do it a several times in each color.

From my archery background using much, much finer fiber, .010 to .019, best best is trim it, heat up a flat screwdriver head and press it to the fiber to flatten it out. Insert through the front (shooter facing side, then heat up the back end until it’s tight. You mess up, get another piece.

You can get the rods from Dawson Precision.

 

[dajogejr]

You can get the rods from Dawson Precision.

true that. But…it was literally a very nice, 5 minute Phone call with Springfield. They advised me it was .060 and took my name and address, didn’t verify my serial number or anything (your mileage may vary…) and off on it’s way.
I could have purchased them from Dawson, tax, shipping, etc., and it may have arrived a day or so earlier, maybe…

I watched a video by Dave Dawson on putting a new fiber in a pistol sight. I thought I did a decent job first time around, I didn’t.
Here’s that video, and the front sight of a Prodigy does have that recessed cut in the front blade. I have a MUCH cleaner front fiber now in mine, enjoy.

 

[Thomasain]

I have a Holosun 407c on my 4.25 prodigy, the LCI is not an issue keeping that glass clean…. 150 to 200 round range sessions and I don’t have any noticable film/dirt/powder on mine.

My front fiber fell out as well after I burned it once as it was loose, SA customer service is sending me some I expect to have soon.

My AOS plate loosened up after about 1500 rounds…but it was my fault. use a little too much and some seeped under the plate between the slide. I cleaned it up, a small dab of blue and torqued it back down. A couple thousand rounds later, no issue.

I've looked online until I got a headache for the correct plate for the 407c. Springfield doesn't show the plate in their fitment dropdown, and Sig doesn't have a fitment guide at all. Do you remember the model number of the plate you got and from where?

 

[dajogejr]

I've looked online until I got a headache for the correct plate for the 407c. Springfield doesn't show the plate in their fitment dropdown, and Sig doesn't have a fitment guide at all. Do you remember the model number of the plate you got and from where?

Thom
A14B.
If you use the drop down it’ll tell you RMR and 407c footprint.
But just an FYI… 407c and 507C both use them popular RMR footprint. Between RMR and DPP, they’re the most common used.

Agency Optic System (AOS) Mounting Plate - 1911 DS/1911

Springfield Armory WebStore

store.springfield-armory.com

 

[Tacticalbjjdad]

Purchased yesterday, stripped it down completely last night, cleaned it, lubricated as directed. Ran it today with 124 gr, FMJ Norma 9mm. Plan was to run at least 500 rounds out of 2,000 round batch, using the 2 mags that came with the gun. All screws were torqued to spec with a torque wrench. No additional loctite added to screws. This isn't my first 1911 style pistol. I'm well aware of fitting issues, break in periods, etc... but....

Before 148 rounds the small protective glass on the back of the Dragonfly fell off. So there went the waterproof rating. Also the fiber optic rod flew out of front sight.

At 276 rounds the AOS mounting plate loosened up. (Added blue loctite to screws and retorqued)

Design flaw also needs to be fixed. The unessential/unnecessary "loaded chamber" hole allows carbon to spray the lens on the Dragonfly so I had to stop and clean it every 60 rounds so I could continue firing on a bright sunny day.

Bottom line: Pistol shoots flat, nice handling, pleasure to shoot. Too much money to spent for those "little issues" to happen on day 1.

Just happend to me.. im still waiting on a response for the warranty. Fiber felt Off and hex wont calibrate vertical