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Red Dot Sight Assistance

TSiWRX said:
@SMSgtRod - Hopefully you were successful today and won't need this, but in case you do have to throw money at the problem:

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If you create an account there, the price for this combo goes down to $175, plus ship.

DSG Arms is a trusted vendor in the community, and I've ordered from them many times in the past.
Click to expand...

Here's the results of the Pinty $25 at the range today.
Firstly. The earplugs rather than the mu*ff were the answer to being able to see the sight properly.
Secondly. Green as opposed to Red is much better for the eyes..... it's an age thing! :ROFLMAO:
Thirdly. A cross hair vs dot are much better which that too is an age thing.
Fourthly. I can Zero the sight out at 4 yards and then interpolate from there for 3 to 12 yards.

Target pic below..... Top Left 9', Right'12, Center 15', Bottom Left 21', Bottom Right 36'
You may notice that some groups seem to vary left to right. That is because I get tired of
waiting for the target to stop oscillations when it is sent out. We have had different hangers
installed and needs some fine tuning. 🤣 So I get a little impatient and want to go bang and
don't quite give it the full 30 minutes to settle down.
Any ways. I zeroed at 12'. At 9' it drops down a bit. At each distance beyond 12' it rises up
some. A perfect head shot at 30' or so means aim at the bottom of the chin.
Center mass shot means shoot center mass. Hit may vary but will most certainly stop the
threat.
I may try some weight at the bottom of the target to stop the movement sooner.
Still one needs to train on moving targets, don't they?
IMG_2232.JPG


We are forecast to experience really bad wx tomorrow. Heavy rain and some possible tornado activity.
If I go to the range I'm going to try the same target for the same distances and see how well I can
compensate......
 
SMSgtRod said:
I know the answer is in many heads out there. My immediate problem is it isn't in mine.
New to using this sight and have recently dragged it out of moth balls and installed it on my
300 Black Out.....
Sighting it in to get it squared away at 15 it was dead center so I pushed the target out to 21 feet.
Now it is shooting 3 to 4 inches high!!!!!!!
So is it the sight or me? I was sure I was holding the same position, but one never knows.....
Here is the sight.... $25
View attachment 1492

Curious as to whether I would do better with something like this Sig unit....

View attachment 1493

What you think folks? Can you help me out?
Click to expand...
SMSgtRod said:
I know the answer is in many heads out there. My immediate problem is it isn't in mine.
New to using this sight and have recently dragged it out of moth balls and installed it on my
300 Black Out.....
Sighting it in to get it squared away at 15 it was dead center so I pushed the target out to 21 feet.
Now it is shooting 3 to 4 inches high!!!!!!!
So is it the sight or me? I was sure I was holding the same position, but one never knows.....
Here is the sight.... $25
View attachment 1492

Curious as to whether I would do better with something like this Sig unit....

View attachment 1493

What you think folks? Can you help me out?
Click to expand...
I have a 7.5 in. AR & the point of impact does go up quite a bit as I reach out. I'm sure at some point it would come back down but I haven't gone that far yet. My optic is a Sight Mark CSR Wolverine. I ran into a function issue before I could explore this further but I hope this helps.
 
If you are wanting ca then make your front post about 1/4" higher and spread then as far apart as possible! That way you won't run the post out and use the large diopter for maximum view!
 
SMSgtRod said:
I know the answer is in many heads out there. My immediate problem is it isn't in mine.
New to using this sight and have recently dragged it out of moth balls and installed it on my
300 Black Out.....
Sighting it in to get it squared away at 15 it was dead center so I pushed the target out to 21 feet.
Now it is shooting 3 to 4 inches high!!!!!!!
So is it the sight or me? I was sure I was holding the same position, but one never knows.....
Here is the sight.... $25
View attachment 1492

Curious as to whether I would do better with something like this Sig unit....

View attachment 1493

What you think folks? Can you help me out?
Click to expand...
Check out a site called Overlord. I've purchased a couple of their sights and am pretty happy with them.
 
There should not be 4” difference in point of impact with a difference of 6’ in range. Basic geometry principles should apply here. If the bore and the sight are perfectly parallel the trajectory of the bullet would always be lower than the point of hold. Assuming the sight line is perfectly level, the bore would have to be angled slightly upward or the bullet would never cross the line of sight. My Sig Romeo mounted on the rail on the flat top of my M4 measures approximately 2-5/8” above the centerline of the bore. (Let’s not bother to calculate bullet drop since at 15’ you would need a micrometer to measure.) At 15’ out the bore would have to be at an upward angle of about 0.84 degrees. This would result in approximately 3/16” per foot. By adding 6 feet to the range, your point of impact as the bullet travels on its 0.84 degree incline should be 1-1/8” above the 15’ zero. This is what I would expect to see with a 21’ shot and a 15’ zero.
Now on my M4 my eye relief is almost 6” from the sight. Using the same principle as the above example, if my eye/cheek alignment is 1/8” higher or lower at 6” from the sight, that results in an angle of 1.19 degrees or 1/4” per foot. At 15’ that would translate to 3-3/4”, and at 21’ it would be 5-1/4” making an additional 1-1/2” difference between a 15’ zero and a 21’ point of impact.
So in theory, the 2 above examples could compound causing the error to be greater, however, if someone is in your house and you hold in the center of the torso I still think that at 15‘ or 20‘ they’ll be having a bad day.
 
SMSgtRod said:
I know the answer is in many heads out there. My immediate problem is it isn't in mine.
New to using this sight and have recently dragged it out of moth balls and installed it on my
300 Black Out.....
Sighting it in to get it squared away at 15 it was dead center so I pushed the target out to 21 feet.
Now it is shooting 3 to 4 inches high!!!!!!!
So is it the sight or me? I was sure I was holding the same position, but one never knows.....
Here is the sight.... $25
View attachment 1492

Curious as to whether I would do better with something like this Sig unit....

View attachment 1493

What you think folks? Can you help me out?
Click to expand...
I'm partial to Overlord optics. Clean, easy to mount. Holds true after adjustment. I use slight touch of Locktight after zeroing in. Another gunner suggested finger nail polish vs Locktight also.
 
TSiWRX said:
^ This.

@SMSgtRod - mechanical offset's effects are greatest at distances below 10 yards. As you bring the template closer and closer, that difference becomes more and more drastic.

This is why close-distance zeros are universally not recommended by any SMEs in the CQB arena.

At the minimum, I would zero at the 25 yard line.

From there, it's time to learn the offset of your optic/mount combo at CQB distances, from contact to 25 yards.

The following is written by the late Pat Rogers, and it is probably the most intuitive and yet comprehensive write-up on the subject of mechanical offset I've seen -

www.swatmag.com

Surgical Shooting: Mastering Mechanical Offset | S.W.A.T. Magazine

For our purposes, mechanical offset relates to the difference between the line of bore and the line of sight. This distance will vary from one gun to another. Additionally, the sight and mounting system will also influence the difference. All handheld firearms have a certain amount of mechanical...
www.swatmag.com www.swatmag.com

^ It's written for the .223/5.56, but the ideas are still the same.

That bullet never "rises" as it comes out of the barrel: that's a physical impossibility - rather, it's the fact that you've essentially tilted the barrel up and you are intersecting bore axis with that of the sight plane, that causes the "rise" in the bullet between the muzzle and the near zero -

View attachment 1510
^ Taken from - https://cowboytacticalgear.wordpress.com/2014/02/10/so-you-want-to-zero-your-ar15/

To be effective at any distance, you'll really need to zero the weapon system properly. Part of this capability will mean that at CQB distances, you'll absolutely need to instantly and instinctively compensate for mechanical offset.

Remember in one of my first posts on this Forum that I admitted a shortcoming in my marksmanship, when under stress? https://www.thearmorylife.com/forum/threads/lets-see-your-ar-setups.258/page-2#post-3579

This was exactly what I was talking about. :)

Under the stress of being in the live-fire shoothouse environment for the first time ever in my life, once the scenarios got more involved and the problem-solving more taxing on my processor ("brain"), I began to drop shots outside of that "eyebox" head-shot kill-zone, and thus failed the demanding marksmanship standard set by Joe Weyer.

Did I completely miss the head? Not once - I was actually always well within that "inverted triangle" critical-CNS zone - but I was each time just outside of the eyebox: the pressure of the situation made me "brain fade," as Pat Rogers so eloquently put it in that article above.

I decided then and there that I'd pick up a few "basic" carbine courses that summer to remediate, and followed-through until I was able to instinctively compensate for offset.
Click to expand...
Really great info!
 
I have to give my vote to the Romeo 5 also, as so many others have. It's nice & sharp, cowitnesses perfectly with the iron sights, seems to be durable, and the auto on / off feature is nice.
Loctite 242 on all of the screws is a must, of course.
Only issue I have encountered is that, when using a RED lazer boresight, it is very hard to see because of the coating Sig used on the lens. It IS possible, in the dark, to do so, however.
 
TACAN Tech said:
I have to give my vote to the Romeo 5 also, as so many others have. It's nice & sharp, cowitnesses perfectly with the iron sights, seems to be durable, and the auto on / off feature is nice.
Loctite 242 on all of the screws is a must, of course.
Only issue I have encountered is that, when using a RED lazer boresight, it is very hard to see because of the coating Sig used on the lens. It IS possible, in the dark, to do so, however.
Click to expand...
I usually change the brightness as low as possible too help zero!
 
SMSgtRod said:
AT3 is headed back.... I really had high hopes. After each shot the laser would die.
Never could get the Red Dot to Zero.... so it's in the outgoing for pick up tomorrow.
Have to look and see what else is out there.... go over suggestions here.
Click to expand...
I'm very sorry to read about your experience with AT3 RDS. I recommended it because I had a good experience with their product.
 
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