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Self-Defense and the Law: Is Shooting Long-Distance in Defense Defensible in Court?

trader said:
I'll add to that point. Do it right or don't do it at all. Backstop is all important with firearms (i'll include archery for short distance too), don't take that shot unless you are sure of what is behind it. Simple.
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What aggravates me about Police training. If you go for a Professional guided hunt they will not take you (or you won’t take your kids) unless you can confidently make a heart lung shot at whatever range before they take them out.

Yet here we are unleashing cops to run amuck that are lucky to hit outer 8 rings of a huge B27 silhouette target. Why you see horrible shootings on body cam with 15-17 rounds expended and BG hit once
 
ECS686 said:
What aggravates me about Police training. If you go for a Professional guided hunt they will not take you (or you won’t take your kids) unless you can confidently make a heart lung shot at whatever range before they take them out.

Yet here we are unleashing cops to run amuck that are lucky to hit outer 8 rings of a huge B27 silhouette target. Why you see horrible shootings on body cam with 15-17 rounds expended and BG hit once
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It all depends on the department and their training regimen. Good firearms training programs are costly in terms of personnel, equipment, and ammo. It is just not that great a priority with many agencies, unfortunately. DEI has not improved things.
 
HayesGreener said:
It all depends on the department and their training regimen. Good firearms training programs are costly in terms of personnel, equipment, and ammo. It is just not that great a priority with many agencies, unfortunately. DEI has not improved things.
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There are a few agencies out there like Bakersfield aka Bakersfield qual out there but few and far between.

My Daughter lives in Xenia Ohio and their agency PD is top notch. All their Firearms instructors are required to be Range Master instructor qualified (Tom Givens RM) and they have other line staff that are RM qualified and it makes a difference. I know of another city in Alabama but am forgetting the name.
 
ECS686 said:
There are a few agencies out there like Bakersfield aka Bakersfield qual out there but few and far between.

My Daughter lives in Xenia Ohio and their agency PD is top notch. All their Firearms instructors are required to be Range Master instructor qualified (Tom Givens RM) and they have other line staff that are RM qualified and it makes a difference. I know of another city in Alabama but am forgetting the name.
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My agency in the Tampa Bay area has a first rate training program. I have been retired from that agency more than 20 years now but the last last 5 chiefs including me and most senior staff were SWAT guys. I knew we were doing something right when commissioners complained about how much ammo we were using. You have to build training right into your budget and operation or it will be marginalized.
 
ECS686 said:
Great points. Rule 4 issues get way overlooked by most. Why I sort of shake my head when folks get mad at sporting events or crowded venues where they restrict firearms.

On one hand I get it you should be able to carry on the other the ones making the most noise have zero clue on rule 4 issues and the parameters where they are going to be able to OR even have the close quarters skill/practice they could safely make a shot.

Like Tom Givens says through Rangemaster. The decision to carry a gun should not be taken lightly. It’s a lifestyle change. It can save you while at the same time putting you in prison or financially destroying you.

Strive to do it better and strive to do it right!!!
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The issue for most is from your car to the event and back. I don’t know about everywhere but if you’re in STL the walk back to your car isn’t gonna be that much fun.
 
Talyn said:
It is true that most DGUs (Defensive Gun Usages) take place at much closer distances. However, the fact is that against a violent criminal armed with a remote-controlled weapon, deadly force may be totally justified at what most would consider “long range.”
athlonoutdoors.com

Self-Defense and the Law: Is Shooting Long-Distance in Defense Defensible in Court?

The gun-related Internet forums—called “the gunternet” by some—can have some nuggets therein. But when you prospect for knowledge, you will
athlonoutdoors.com athlonoutdoors.com

View attachment 63943
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In a "duty to retreat" or non-castle doctrine State you would likely be S.O.L. Otherwise you will still likely have to convince the jury that you were facing an eminent deadly threat. I don't see any way a district attorney won't prosecute.
 
LarryT said:
In a "duty to retreat" or non-castle doctrine State you would likely be S.O.L. Otherwise you will still likely have to convince the jury that you were facing an eminent deadly threat. I don't see any way a district attorney won't prosecute.
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First off—can we agree the only way that anyone taking a shot at someone 25, 50, however many yards is because that person at a distance is shooting at them?

Are those incoming bullets still deadly? Even if they aren’t aimed with skill, are you any less dead from a lucky hit than an aimed shot?

If the answer to either of those questions is “no”— you are justified in returning fire.

As I said earlier—show me a law where self defense is only justified within X number of feet.

As for “duty to retreat”—I’ve never seen one that didn’t have “unless retreating would put you or others at greater risk” included with it.

Will turning your back and running put you at greater risk than stopping the threat? Again, see the two questions I posted earlier…and if the answer to the third question is “yes”, and it should be considering the first two answers…the DTR is not required.
 
With my eyesight I could not send an accurate round from a carry handgun much further that 20 or 30 yards. Accurate being used loosely there.
On the other point being made here on self defense, my priority #1 being the lives of my family, #2 being my own life I will leave law enforcement to those who have signed up for that duty. That being said, thank you to all LEO for what you do, your service is much appreciated.
 
One never knows what fate will bring. A case occurred with an officer who saw an active shooter in a Texas city a couple years ago. He brought the suspect dow with one shot from his .40 cal handgun. He had trained for such distances and had confidence in the shot. Should he have taken the shot without the training and skills? Probably not.
 
I live in Texas and both the wife and I have a TX license to carry. TX statutes on self-defense don't mention anything about distance or range (that I know of). In fact, under certain circumstances, you are allowed to fire upon a fleeing felon.
 
First…. I always know the laws of every state I’m in or passing through while traveling.
That being said… simply put if I am being shot at or shots are being shot in my direction I will return fire, I will also,
“if I’m confident” that my shots will only “hit the aggressor” shoot to protect others that are not able to protect themselves from being shot.
That is me.
@HayesGreener
Although I don’t know you personally I appreciate and respect your input on threads such as these based on your experience and training.
 
HayesGreener said:
One never knows what fate will bring. A case occurred with an officer who saw an active shooter in a Texas city a couple years ago. He brought the suspect dow with one shot from his .40 cal handgun. He had trained for such distances and had confidence in the shot. Should he have taken the shot without the training and skills? Probably not.
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I failed to mention the shot was 104 yards
 
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