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SigP320 Safety Problems Continue – Resulting In Bans from Police Training Ranges!

Interesting article on the Glock from 10 yrs ago and negligent discharge.

“In terms of mechanical design, there are few flaws with Glock pistols. If a law enforcement officer, soldier or citizen does exactly what they are supposed to do all of the time with cyborg certainty, there will be no problems with the Glock or other popular pistols mimicking its basic design. Unfortunately, “RoboCop” is only a movie, and humans are liable to make similar mistakes over and over again.“

 
Interesting article on the Glock from 10 yrs ago and negligent discharge.

“In terms of mechanical design, there are few flaws with Glock pistols. If a law enforcement officer, soldier or citizen does exactly what they are supposed to do all of the time with cyborg certainty, there will be no problems with the Glock or other popular pistols mimicking its basic design. Unfortunately, “RoboCop” is only a movie, and humans are liable to make similar mistakes over and over again.“

Cyborg certainty is required to KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER ?

I guess these people think that as long as there’s a manual safety it’s ok to have your finger on the trigger when you’re not actively firing the weapon ?

It’s not a gun issue. It’s a human issue. A dumb human issue.
 
OK, I'm officially calling the debate OVER. AK Jesus just weighed in, and AFAIC, he is the final word on the vast majority of Pew-related things. And Cliff Notes version, he's right - being a d--k and lying to your customers ain't cool!

SIG IS GASLIGHTING YOU​

 
Well happy April 1st
 

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I’m not sure I’ve ever weighed into the P320 debate on this board (as I have at SigTalk and GlockTalk), but my position is this.

1. The P320 is (and has been) getting an unusual number of uncommanded discharge reports compared to other gun manufacturers (and even other Sig models). If it’s not the gun, does that mean that those that buy and use Sig P320s are significantly more unsafe than those that buy and use other brands?

2. If this were simply a social medial phenomena, there should be guns of all manufacturers being reported in close to equal measure for uncommanded discharges, all across social media.

3. There are those that inevitably will go to “whataboutism” and the Glocks of the 1980s/90s, completely ignoring the fact that LEOs were moving from hammer fired revolvers to striker fired automatics that work very differently…10 lb heavier trigger in revolvers notwithstanding.

4. Personally, I saw enough of this debacle to follow the adage “where there’s smoke, there’s probably fire”. That, and Sig’s continual poor responses in belittling anyone who mentioned the issue resulted in my dumping a P320 X-Carry, 2 P320 Compacts, and 4 P365s of various styles. Never had an issue with any of them, carried the P365s a lot, it was a matter of principle “for me” based on Sigs response to the whole mess. Won’t own another until they (Sig) figure out how to be professional. Too many better guns out there for similar or less money.

5. I do agree that some of the alleged uncommanded discharges likely were safety problems. But again…why is it always Sig?

6. Don’t know who’s right in their assessment of what’s up with the P320, but there are legitimate theorems that speak to the “laws of averages” that indicate there should be an explanation for “why is it always a Sig P320?”

7. There are tons of examples where gun owners have had significant problems with “their” sample of a gun. Most of us admit it is possible for a gun to escape manufacturer QC and be less than operational. I personally had to send a Guardian back to Dan Wesson to have the ramp recut and for them to insert the proper link. It is very conceivable to me that Sig could be missing things at QC concerning some examples of P320s that do NOT affect every P320 ever released.

8. I also believe, at least in the LEO uncommanded discharges reports, that it possibly goes to said LEO carrying a duty P320 continually, never removing it from the holster, taking their belt off and on daily at home (here, I’m assuming LEO is allowed to take duty weapon home), yet never removing magazine, unloading gun, and never resetting “fully charged” striker as it slowly moves toward release from constant bumps over days/months. Eventually, a very minor bump releases striker, resulting in uncommanded discharge. I’m willing to bet that the majority of the civilian owners of P320s who continually say they’ve never had an issue frequently load and unload their p320s, constantly resetting the striker which would negate any movement over a period of time. I know I did, and unless my P320s were doing duty as home defense weapons, they weren’t stored loaded either.

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For an adrenaline rush we play Russian roulette with a loaded 320, We drive 16 penny nails into pine boards by grabbing the barrel and hitting the nail with the end of the grip. three whacks and you hand it to next person. pretty safe. only three guys shot so far.
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The same incidents/coments/controveries came up when the Glocks arrived.

Any striker-fired Glock0type trigger system needs to be protected against anything snagging on/going into the trigger guard/trigger area.


And ambulance-chasing lawyers will dive into any controversy to make $$.
All true but for different reasons, IMHO. Cops were shooting themselves with their Glocks because back then, they were transitioning from revolvers to Glocks and the manual of arms between the two are as polar opposite as you can get. Think about it: you're going from a handgun with a double-action 7-8lb trigger to a striker-fired pistol with a 3lb trigger. That's why guys were coming down with a case of 'Glock Leg', and why pistol-clearing bullet traps became a thing all across the country.
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On a related note, when I used to work for campus police at Indiana University back in the early/mid 90's, we were literally the last department in the state to switch from revolvers to semiauto. We went with the Sig P226. At that time, departments (like Gary IN) were switching from the old weak 9mm to .40S&W. Our department's chief was convinced the P226 was the way to go because you could swap between the .40 and .357 Sig... Carry the .357 Sig as their duty ammo and shoot .40S&W on the range. Though I understand the chief's thinking about this at the time, I disagreed (unspoken in my mind only) because I knew .357 Sig would not really become a thing and that the ammo would be expensive compared to other rounds. Lo and behold, after more than a decade and improvements in ammunition technology and gunpowder chemistry in particular, the .40S&W lost popularity and departments started going back to 9mm for both the added capacity in duty pistols and the superior terminal ballistics...and .357 Sig is even less popular now than it was then! I did a quickie search on Ammoseek and the prices are (best price offered): 45¢/rd for .357 Sig, 23¢/rd for .40S&W, and (shocker!) 8¢/rd for 9mm!
 
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Simple. It's always Sig because it's an easy target and..... Lawyers.
I’m not sure how Sig would be an easier target than any other manufacturer of striker fired weapons (minus the reports of uncommanded discharges). I also doubt all these reports are being made by people who know each other and conspired to get Sig.

I concur 100% with … Lawyers. Though I’m sure they’d be happy to go after any gun manufacturer where they thought they could make a nickel.

And still, always the P320, never the P365 (that I’m aware of), or any other striker fired weapons that Sig might make. Again, as I haven’t reviewed all reported incidents, isn’t it always the basic P320, never the compacts, X-fives, Legions, etc., that is reported to have malfunctioned?
 
I’m not sure how Sig would be an easier target than any other manufacturer of striker fired weapons (minus the reports of uncommanded discharges). I also doubt all these reports are being made by people who know each other and conspired to get Sig.

I concur 100% with … Lawyers. Though I’m sure they’d be happy to go after any gun manufacturer where they thought they could make a nickel.

And still, always the P320, never the P365 (that I’m aware of), or any other striker fired weapons that Sig might make. Again, as I haven’t reviewed all reported incidents, isn’t it always the basic P320, never the compacts, X-fives, Legions, etc., that is reported to have malfunctioned?
Um, because of the lawsuits. And the lawyers.

I mean unless you can think of another manufacturer who is currently fighting multiple lawsuits for guns that supposedly shoot themselves. Which is ridiculous.
 
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