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Some fanboy is gunna be out some money

RandomHero said:
OK, so you are making an argument for a weapon that you do not currently own. So, why is it that you do not own one?
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You're not honestly comparing a SA pistol to a B&T rifle are you ? Have you never heard of B&T ? I know this is a Springfield forum, but let's stay in the real world here. Quality wise a SA doesn't compare with a B&T, period.
 
Bassbob said:
You're not honestly comparing a SA pistol to a B&T rifle are you ? Have you never heard of B&T ? I know this is a Springfield forum, but let's stay in the real world here. Quality wise a SA doesn't compare with a B&T, period.
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I get the B&T is a SBR, I get that. But what I was saying is make it make sense. Unless you are going to form 1 the rifle, it just doesn't make sense to me. And even if you did, there are plenty of other firearms in that category that are cheaper and have a long history of quality. None the less, my statement was if you would consider the XDm a Yugo, man that is sad. I have shot it many years in competition. And it has served me well. The B&T is a different category and to most that does not matter. Most not all, but most people, what matters is the bottom dollar. So the B&T you get a half way decent trigger in a overpriced firearm that is 3 times the amount of an XDm Elite. I mean I own the Springfield Armory PDW that is no longer in production. My PDW is far superior than the B&T that is being discussed. And it was cheaper than the B&T. So again, make it make sense. The B&T is simply not worth the money for most people.
 
RandomHero said:
I get the B&T is a SBR, I get that. But what I was saying is make it make sense. Unless you are going to form 1 the rifle, it just doesn't make sense to me. And even if you did, there are plenty of other firearms in that category that are cheaper and have a long history of quality. None the less, my statement was if you would consider the XDm a Yugo, man that is sad. I have shot it many years in competition. And it has served me well. The B&T is a different category and to most that does not matter. Most not all, but most people, what matters is the bottom dollar. So the B&T you get a half way decent trigger in a overpriced firearm that is 3 times the amount of an XDm Elite. I mean I own the Springfield Armory PDW that is no longer in production. My PDW is far superior than the B&T that is being discussed. And it was cheaper than the B&T. So again, make it make sense. The B&T is simply not worth the money for most people.
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In other words, your entire argument boils down to a base Camaro is just as good (if not better) than a Bugatti Veyron.

Gotcha.

I’m sorry I made you feel bad about your favorite pistol; I forgot some people get wrapped around the idea that “if I bought it, it’s the best one out there”…
 
HansGruber said:
In other words, your entire argument boils down to a base Camaro is just as good (if not better) than a Bugatti Veyron.

Gotcha.

I’m sorry I made you feel bad about your favorite pistol; I forgot some people get wrapped around the idea that “if I bought it, it’s the best one out there”…
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yet again you are making an argument for a firearm that you have refused to buy yourself. Thanks for the clarification.
Also, as previously stated, my PDW is superior to the B&T and was cheaper.
 
Bassbob said:
That's certainly your opinion, erroneous as it may be.

At least now though we're comparing apples to apples.
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LOL... Even though they are different weapons. Certainly would have different applications. I have no doubt that the B&T is a great firearm. All I am saying is that the B&T is overpriced for what it is. I mean my PDW was cheaper and is a better firearm.

Would you say that the B&T is a better firearm than the PDW?
 
RandomHero said:
LOL... Even though they are different weapons. Certainly would have different applications. I have no doubt that the B&T is a great firearm. All I am saying is that the B&T is overpriced for what it is. I mean my PDW was cheaper and is a better firearm.

Would you say that the B&T is a better firearm than the PDW?
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Do you have ANY hands on experience with a B&T?
 
RandomHero said:
LOL... Even though they are different weapons. Certainly would have different applications. I have no doubt that the B&T is a great firearm. All I am saying is that the B&T is overpriced for what it is. I mean my PDW was cheaper and is a better firearm.

Would you say that the B&T is a better firearm than the PDW?
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Yes.
 
RandomHero said:
Please explain on how you would evaluate it to be a better firearm than the Springfield Armory PDW.
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Please indicate specifically which PDW you refer to. Edge, Evac. Either way it's just an AR pistol. And it's a mid tier AR pistol at best. The B&T is widely regarded as one of the most accurate and reliable subguns on the planet. Frankly I am a little surprised someone is even comparing it to a $1000, mid tier AR pistol.
 
Bassbob said:
Please indicate specifically which PDW you refer to. Edge, Evac. Either way it's just an AR pistol. And it's a mid tier AR pistol at best. The B&T is widely regarded as one of the most accurate and reliable subguns on the planet. Frankly I am a little surprised someone is even comparing it to a $1000, mid tier AR pistol.
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So, no explanation on why it is better than the PDW?
Listen guys, I respect everyone of you. You all have a great amount of experience and knowledge. All I am saying is that for what it is, it's too expensive for me.
 
RandomHero said:
So, no explanation on why it is better than the PDW?
Listen guys, I respect everyone of you. You all have a great amount of experience and knowledge. All I am saying is that for what it is, it's too expensive for me.
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That's completely different than saying it's better isn't it ? It may be better for you. For your budget and your specific needs and uses. That is a matter of opinion and is subjective. What isn't subjective or opinion is that the B&T is a higher quality, more accurate and more reliable firearm. It's also way more expensive, naturally.

For what it's worth, the B&T doesn't really work for me either. Not because my crappy AR pistol is better. Just because I really don't need it and when I start getting that financially attached to a weapon it's most likely going to be a shotgun.
 
Bassbob said:
That's completely different than saying it's better isn't it ? It may be better for you. For your budget and your specific needs and uses. That is a matter of opinion and is subjective. What isn't subjective or opinion is that the B&T is a higher quality, more accurate and more reliable firearm. It's also way more expensive, naturally.

For what it's worth, the B&T doesn't really work for me either. Not because my crappy AR pistol is better. Just because I really don't need it and when I start getting that financially attached to a weapon it's most likely going to be a shotgun.
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To the point that no one here that is speaking on behalf of the B&T actually owns one. And to add to that, not one person has been able to explain what makes it better than the PDW. The Springfield PDW is made from many parts manufactured by Maxim Defense. Which some would regard higher quality than Springfield. So if the Springfield PDW is basically a rebranded maxim Defense PDW, then how is it so that the B&T remains superior. And just as you guys have stated, its my opinion. Likewise if you feel that the B&T is superior to the PDW, that is also your opinion and subjective. Not that because we have a difference in opinions that it makes either one of us less knowledgeable. Opinions and preferences will vary from person to person. Again, I believe you guys have a wealth of experience and knowledge. And I appreciate the healthy dialog.

blog.refactortactical.com

What Set’s Maxim Defense Apart From Other Firearm Manufacturers?

The best feature of Maxim Defense weapons is that they’re able to provide soldiers with better mobility and more versatility, without sacrificing capability.
blog.refactortactical.com blog.refactortactical.com
 
RandomHero said:
To the point that no one here that is speaking on behalf of the B&T actually owns one. And to add to that, not one person has been able to explain what makes it better than the PDW. The Springfield PDW is made from many parts manufactured by Maxim Defense. Which some would regard higher quality than Springfield. So if the Springfield PDW is basically a rebranded maxim Defense PDW, then how is it so that the B&T remains superior. And just as you guys have stated, its my opinion. Likewise if you feel that the B&T is superior to the PDW, that is also your opinion and subjective. Not that because we have a difference in opinions that it makes either one of us less knowledgeable. Opinions and preferences will vary from person to person. Again, I believe you guys have a wealth of experience and knowledge. And I appreciate the healthy dialog.

blog.refactortactical.com

What Set’s Maxim Defense Apart From Other Firearm Manufacturers?

The best feature of Maxim Defense weapons is that they’re able to provide soldiers with better mobility and more versatility, without sacrificing capability.
blog.refactortactical.com blog.refactortactical.com
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Ok…

When you retract the bolt on a B&T, it moves like it’s on ball bearings…no hesitation, no grittiness that AR bolt carriers have.

The machining in a B&T is far and above anything Springfield, or even Maxim makes.

We could get into how much more ballistically effective a 10mm out of a 6” barrel will be over 5.56 out of a PDW AR, as well.

Again—I have actual, hands on experience with B&T’s…you don’t.

You just believe what you own is better—simply because it’s what you own.

Tell me: do you think there are any better made PDW’s out there than yours?
 
HansGruber said:
Ok…

When you retract the bolt on a B&T, it moves like it’s on ball bearings…no hesitation, no grittiness that AR bolt carriers have.

The machining in a B&T is far and above anything Springfield, or even Maxim makes.

We could get into how much more ballistically effective a 10mm out of a 6” barrel will be over 5.56 out of a PDW AR, as well.

Again—I have actual, hands on experience with B&T’s…you don’t.

You just believe what you own is better—simply because it’s what you own.

Tell me: do you think there are any better made PDW’s out there than yours?
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I think your post proves my point. You think what you do and there is no option for a different firearm that is equal or superior in quality. You also have dreamed up this idea I have no experience with the B&T. So that in itself speaks volumes in why this conversation has gone the way it has.

Maxim Defense for example, Maxim Defense was created by Michael Windfeldt to accommodate the various mission needs and requirements of law enforcement, elite military units, such as the Army Special Forces (Green Berets) and Navy SEALs, and Executive Protection Details.

So, you are saying that Maxim Defense is good for Green Berets, Navy Seals, Elite Military Units, and Law Enforcement, but is still substandard to the B&T according to you.

We just seem to disagree on this topic, and that is OK. I still appreciate your opinions and insight. You guys are a wealth of experience and knowledge. I will bow out of this conversation.
 
RandomHero said:
I think your post proves my point. You think what you do and there is no option for a different firearm that is equal or superior in quality. You also have dreamed up this idea I have no experience with the B&T. So that in itself speaks volumes in why this conversation has gone the way it has.

Maxim Defense for example, Maxim Defense was created by Michael Windfeldt to accommodate the various mission needs and requirements of law enforcement, elite military units, such as the Army Special Forces (Green Berets) and Navy SEALs, and Executive Protection Details.

So, you are saying that Maxim Defense is good for Green Berets, Navy Seals, Elite Military Units, and Law Enforcement, but is still substandard to the B&T according to you.

We just seem to disagree on this topic, and that is OK. I still appreciate your opinions and insight. You guys are a wealth of experience and knowledge. I will bow out of this conversation.
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That's kind of ridiculous RH. You are talking about an AR. Yeah, good enough for Seals. Does that make it better than an HK MP5 ? You seem to be leaving out the part where firearms are designed for specific uses. You also seem to be forgetting that even the Seals and other crayon eaters are subject to the same government accountants that the grunts are.

Also, SA ARs are not made by Maxim. The furniture and some hardware is. They are mid tier at best and very little on or in them is the same as what Navy Seals are carrying.
 
RandomHero said:
I think your post proves my point. You think what you do and there is no option for a different firearm that is equal or superior in quality. You also have dreamed up this idea I have no experience with the B&T. So that in itself speaks volumes in why this conversation has gone the way it has.

Maxim Defense for example, Maxim Defense was created by Michael Windfeldt to accommodate the various mission needs and requirements of law enforcement, elite military units, such as the Army Special Forces (Green Berets) and Navy SEALs, and Executive Protection Details.

So, you are saying that Maxim Defense is good for Green Berets, Navy Seals, Elite Military Units, and Law Enforcement, but is still substandard to the B&T according to you.

We just seem to disagree on this topic, and that is OK. I still appreciate your opinions and insight. You guys are a wealth of experience and knowledge. I will bow out of this conversation.
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B&T is used by a whole lot of top-tier operators as well…and you know what SEALs, for example aren’t using? Springfields.

And since you’ve never answered the question if you had hands on experience with them…it pretty much says you’re dodging the question.

As you did with “do you think there are better PDW’s than your Saint”.
 
HansGruber said:
B&T is used by a whole lot of top-tier operators as well…and you know what SEALs, for example aren’t using? Springfields.

And since you’ve never answered the question if you had hands on experience with them…it pretty much says you’re dodging the question.

As you did with “do you think there are better PDW’s than your Saint”.
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Let us all know when you are ready to put your money where it counts and actually purchase the B&T that you say nothing in the universe compares to. I doubt that day will ever come.
 
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