jumpinjoe
Hellcat
Actually that's exactly what the 'Armorer' is supposed to do.
The Irony
- Thread starter Classified
- Start date
Old_Me
SAINT
there may have to be an "overseer" to him/her.....
jumpinjoe
Hellcat
The 'Armorer' is the "overseer". Directors and Asst directors and actors (as I understand) are permitted to handle props and/or firearms on set subject to the Armorer's direction. My personal opinion is that there is more to this story than we know right now. For example .... why were those guns left unattended on that cart while the film crew went to lunch elsewhere? Why were the firearms not inspected again once they returned from lunch? Why didn't the Asst Dir check that particular gun to ensure a safe (cold gun) condition before calling "cold gun"? Was the Dir, Asst Dir, and actors instructed in proper/safe handling of a firearm in any/every event the actor took possession of it? And on and on and on .............. it's a tragic event that should not have happened. The very same action scenario has occurred in many hundreds of movies over many years, typically with no problem. My guess is there will be changes come from this event.
Just some things to ponder!!!
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Old_Me
SAINT
just like there is more than one person that has "the key" for the launch of nuke weapons, maybe there should be more than one person that ensures the guns are cold?
an armorer's, armorer....or..."overseer".
for what movies/tv shows cost nowadays, what's one more on the payroll..???
So technically you do, you have the propmaster in charge of all props. Then you have the master Armorer incharge of firearms specifically within the prop dept Then 1 or more assistant Armorers. Then you have the assistant Director over all of them. Then Director incharge of the set, then producers ontop of them.
Old_Me
SAINT
and yet.....something still went wrong..??
or was it a "set up" (premeditated event?)
who had to most to gain, from this?
someone publicly humiliated on the set, looking for revenge?
Annihilator
Emissary
Sad situation, but I was taught at an early age, when you pick up or are handed a firearm YOU ALWAYS CHECK TO MAKE SURE ITS NOT LOADED PERIOD. No excuse can bring back this woman who was killed.
Having stayed abreast of the situation with Alec Baldwin and the shooting that occurred on the movie set for "Rust" I am absolutely astounded by the level of disregard for basic gun safety at every level. There was obviously no control over the weapons as they were apparently frequently left out unsecured on open carts even during meal times. You had people using them for recreational shooting with live ammunition. You had a prop master who apparently did not lock up weapons, segregate ammo, did not know the differences between live and blank ammunition, did not check weapons before they were taken to the set, allowed people to transport weapons to the set without checking the weapon. There were even two previous incidents of accidental discharges on the set with apparently no actions to hold those responsible accountable or to correct the situation. This was a tragedy waiting to happen. I had been reserving judgment as the investigation plays out, but the more info that comes out, the worse this situation gets. Quite frankly, as the person who discharged the weapon and as one of the people responsible for the safety of the set, Alec Baldwin should be held criminally liable for involuntary manslaughter, and everyone else involved with either direct culpability or management responsibility should be held for civil liability, at a minimum.
nypost.com
Rookie armorer on Baldwin set said ‘best part’ of job proving ‘how safe’ guns are
Hannah Gutierrez Reed, a 24-year-old former model, told the “Voices of the West” podcast last month about landing the “pretty sweet gig” on the movie set.
nypost.com
Old_Me
SAINT
i think you are right, about being taught. however, as we know, not all actors have a gun (for say home defense, or self defense), nor have ever held one, much less had to use one in a movie or tv show.
maybe, just maybe, there ought to be a mandatory class, for gun safety for ALL involved with any such filming, for gun safety and what to look for?
this would at the very least, give some on the set, background, or in front of the cameras, to have "some" knowledge of safe handling.
this mandatory "class", can be done at one location, and everyone must show up, and get a "certificate" that gets kept on file, during the duration of the filming. if a tv show, then a yearly class be mandatory, and kept on file.
any "newcomers" (or replacement people) must go thru this as well, or NO WORK till they comply.
i cannot "see" how this can be an inconvenience to anyone working on any tv/movie project.
this "class" can be any length of time, maybe as little as 1 hour, as a minimum requirement...?
conax
Master Class
John Wayne, Clint Eastwood, Burt Lancaster, James Arness, Gary Cooper, Lee Marvin, Charles Bronson, Randolph Scott, Alan Ladd, Kirk Douglas, Yul Brenner, Lee Van Cleef, Jack Palance, Robert Ryan, Richard Boone and many many other actors managed to make dozens of movies handling firearms, and none of them shot their cinematographer dead.
Alec Baldwin is a careless moron at best, at worst..
When I'm looking over a gun at a gun shop the very first thing I do is to clear it. I "know" it isn't loaded in the display case but that wouldn't make me less of a fool if I shot someone by "accident." I always get an approving glance from the shop clerk. He knows it is a habitual thing that can't be avoided with some of us.
Handling guns around people requires strict discipline. Good habits formed over years of experience can save lives.
I don't want to hurt or kill anyone. All it takes is a few seconds to make sure I don't.
Don't point those things at people. Ever.
Actors used to be trained to fire blanks on stage near but not at the actors they are pretending to shoot.
Everyone except Alec Baldwin, he's so very special.
Alec Baldwin is a careless moron at best, at worst..
When I'm looking over a gun at a gun shop the very first thing I do is to clear it. I "know" it isn't loaded in the display case but that wouldn't make me less of a fool if I shot someone by "accident." I always get an approving glance from the shop clerk. He knows it is a habitual thing that can't be avoided with some of us.
Handling guns around people requires strict discipline. Good habits formed over years of experience can save lives.
I don't want to hurt or kill anyone. All it takes is a few seconds to make sure I don't.
Don't point those things at people. Ever.
Actors used to be trained to fire blanks on stage near but not at the actors they are pretending to shoot.
Everyone except Alec Baldwin, he's so very special.
BreakingWind
Master Class
That is not what is needed, what is needed is to hire people who do their jobs. It's obvious that she was NOT doing her job, plain and simple. Another report just came out that some of the cast were using the prop guns for target practice using live ammo prior to that. That is another violation that should not have been allowed by - - - have you got a guess yet - - - the armorer. The more info that comes out on this woman, the seedier she looks.
Old_Me
SAINT
yeah, i'm not getting updated info as quickly as some of you might be.
i listen to my local talk radio shows, as i tire of music, and i only have an ordinary radio at that, not a satelite one like Sirrus..??? or is it XM..????
Keystone19250
SAINT
Prosecutors and the sheriffs department are holding a press conference tomorrow to announce action being taken in regards to the latest coming out of the investigation, criminal charges coming.
Classified
Professional
Here's an interesting breakdown of firearm safety and our ignorance regarding this incident:
Thanks for video Classified, he made excellent points. Good and proper education beforehand is key to experience.
So I wanted to share this with everyone and is a good read from actual experts from the true professionals that do this for a living. I know it has been said firearms experts should have been used, but in all actuality more students have been shot by Certified trainers/experts since 84 when they basically started the Firearms Armorer position for the movie industry. Just a couple years ago a highly certified police instructor shot a cadet in the chest in GA. James Yeager also comes to mind as some who was credentialed and in “our industry“ but still did stupid things. Normally we do not allow posts on shootings, but I have let this roll since it was such a rare occurrence and circumstance. There is something for us to all learn. Especially that the actual union Armors are a professional group, that care about safety and is not something that they take lightly. A true Armor will know more about firearms than most of us will ever know. As I said about ISS these groups have to basically have every firearms and pyrotechnics license you can have to be able to do the job they do. So anyway here is some great insight, especially why none of the news networks have aired one of these real Armorers to comment.
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BreakingWind
Master Class
If and that's a big if, there are any criminal charges brought then you would be looking at Involuntary Manslaughter and it would be levied against either the Armorer or the Asst Director that handed him the gun and called out "Cold Gun". After all is said and done I believe the closest its going to get to criminal would be something against the Production Company for gross safety violations.
The cast are already pointing fingers. When attention turned to Baldwin he immediately tweeted a portion of the investigation report that stated that Hall handed him the weapon and declared it a cold gun. Hall was supposed to be responsible for verifying the state of weapon and he failed to do that. So you already got Baldwin doing the "errr, ummm, errr, it wasn't my fault, it was his fault, he handed me a hot gun and told me it was cold" instead of doing the classy thing and keeping his big trap shut instead of throwing his Asst Director under the bus. IMHO Alec Baldwin is many things but a class act is not one of them.
C. Sumpin
Custom
My My. I've never seen so much blather about something so simple.
The only thing an armorer should have to do on a movie set is to check (THE DEDICATED FIREARM, THAT HAS NEVER AND NEVER WILL) have a live round in the chamber, be used for "plinking", or be in the possession of anyone except the armorer or an actor he hands it to and to report and dispose of any "live" ammunition found on set or in anyones possession on/in the area of the set! Announcing "HOT" or "COLD" is not an option as it is and will always be "COLD". And with todays technology, blanks are obsolete and unnecessary. Why even have a firing pin in a movie firearm???
A fully functional firearm is no longer necessary for realism. Any effect, be it blast, smoke, recoil, is a simple matter to digitally add/edit.
So my investigation concludes the so called "Protocol" of firearms/ammunition/personnel/chain of possession was shot through with holes, could never have been expected to prevent a tragedy and was violated by multiple people ignorant of firearms, their proper function/handling. And the hypocrisy of it all; folks who are adamant against firearms/the Second Amendment/ the nature of crime/criminals is the starring hero with the very item that is so evil!! Only in Hellywood.
The only thing an armorer should have to do on a movie set is to check (THE DEDICATED FIREARM, THAT HAS NEVER AND NEVER WILL) have a live round in the chamber, be used for "plinking", or be in the possession of anyone except the armorer or an actor he hands it to and to report and dispose of any "live" ammunition found on set or in anyones possession on/in the area of the set! Announcing "HOT" or "COLD" is not an option as it is and will always be "COLD". And with todays technology, blanks are obsolete and unnecessary. Why even have a firing pin in a movie firearm???
A fully functional firearm is no longer necessary for realism. Any effect, be it blast, smoke, recoil, is a simple matter to digitally add/edit.
So my investigation concludes the so called "Protocol" of firearms/ammunition/personnel/chain of possession was shot through with holes, could never have been expected to prevent a tragedy and was violated by multiple people ignorant of firearms, their proper function/handling. And the hypocrisy of it all; folks who are adamant against firearms/the Second Amendment/ the nature of crime/criminals is the starring hero with the very item that is so evil!! Only in Hellywood.
Those old single actions and the faithful reproductions of them did/do have a tendency to go off even uncocked if they don't have the transverse bar. That's why a lot of old gunfighters only had five in the cylinder.