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The Irony

Let me beat on this horse. The gun is an Italian replica of the Colt single action, made by Pietta. I have two in .45. It is a real gun. It functions like it was intended to do and is quite nice. That said, it doesn't fire all by itself. Baldwin never should have done the interview where he said he didn't pull the trigger, but you can't legislate intelligence.
Never trust the person who handed you the gun, check it yourself.
Don't point it at anyone you don't intend to shoot.
Don't pull the trigger unless you're prepared for the consequences.
All the other talk is a bunch of blather.
You could stop all alcohol sales in the bar where you are conducting the trial and have it over in 30 minutes or less, just like in the old days.
 
benstt said:
Those old single actions and the faithful reproductions of them did/do have a tendency to go off even uncocked if they don't have the transverse bar. That's why a lot of old gunfighters only had five in the cylinder.
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Only if dropped and hammer at rest, they will not just go off sitting there or being held, needs some kind of force on the hammer for it to strike the primer. They can also go off if cocked but only if there is something wrong with the trigger and sear engagement, still, if he didn't pull the trigger why did he cock the hammer......
 
benstt said:
Can't you just smack the back of the hammer a bit? I was under the impression it didn't take a huge jolt to set the primer off.
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Just depends on the hammer sear engagement, especially if its an old gun and the internals are worn, still, the guns hammer shouldn't have been cocked period. For it to go off with the hammer down and a round in the chamber, a simple smack with your hand won't have the force to to fire the round, now if the gun was dropped with the hammer down, it may have the force to fire the round.
 
youngolddude said:
Like I said, I have two. They have thousands of rounds through them. They don't fire on their own. I say bunk on a faulty sear engagement. If you don't know what ...... oh never mind.
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I have had issues with hammer and sear on a Colt Gold Cup Series 70, the two piece sear broke and pistol went full auto, and I have seen a faulty sear engagement on a S&W 629 to where if hammer was cocked and you hit the revolver off a hard surface the hammer fell, so there is a thing called faulty hammer/sear engagement, I was just explaining to Bennst this can be an issue, never said it was the cause on Baldwin.
 
Ok, no offense, my apologies if I did. I realize the sear can be an issue even on a single action revolver. I seriously doubt the gun Baldwin shot without "pulling the trigger" has a bad sear engagement. I'd even bet a quarter that it doesn't. ;)Wyatt Earp learned to keep the hammer down on an empty after his pistol fell to the floor and discharged. In those days, only those about to engage or the uninformed loaded 6.
 
Annihilator said:
Just depends on the hammer sear engagement, especially if its an old gun and the internals are worn, still, the guns hammer shouldn't have been cocked period. For it to go off with the hammer down and a round in the chamber, a simple smack with your hand won't have the force to to fire the round, now if the gun was dropped with the hammer down, it may have the force to fire the round.
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I agree that all kinds of wear problems in an old gun can cause it to go off, but the problem should be repeatable or can be made to happen again. If the gun in question is in proper working order it would be a stretch to say it went off by itself.
 
I think there checking the revolver out to see if it had any issues if I heard right on the news, still, the hammer should have not been cocked period. Saw him on ABC news crying about the incident, to me now, it’s all about him, not the person or there family dealing with this tragedy.
 
What a coincidence! The evil gun didn't go off while lying on the table, it could have "just went off" anytime but it deviously waited for Baldwin to pick it up. Then, it cocked itself and pointed itself directly at the dead lady. Right after he made some snotty comment to her, it "just went off."
Darn those evil guns, they always try to make those innocent and lovably dumb people look bad.
(I read she said something like, 'We'll need to reshoot that scene one more time." Whereupon he said something like, "I'll just shoot you.." This isn't word for word, just a rough paraphrase.)

He should have claimed he didn't know it was loaded and an involuntary twitch moved his finger, and I might have almost believed that.

I have a couple Colt SA replicas and I polished the sides of the hammer, the sear and the inner surfaces of the frame to slick them up. They both have a deep notch the sear rests in at full cock. The pressure of the main spring and the trigger return spring keep them from just randomly "going off."
If some working class nobody tried this in court he would be crucified by the DA.
Alec Movie Star Baldwin will probably be scolded and released.. Well he isn't in jail so he'll just get scolded.
 
Annihilator said:
I have had issues with hammer and sear on a Colt Gold Cup Series 70, the two piece sear broke and pistol went full auto, and I have seen a faulty sear engagement on a S&W 629 to where if hammer was cocked and you hit the revolver off a hard surface the hammer fell, so there is a thing called faulty hammer/sear engagement, I was just explaining to Bennst this can be an issue, never said it was the cause on Baldwin.
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Never repair a full auto fault!! :)
 
Annihilator said:
I think there checking the revolver out to see if it had any issues if I heard right on the news, still, the hammer should have not been cocked period. Saw him on ABC news crying about the incident, to me now, it’s all about him, not the person or there family dealing with this tragedy.
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As I don’t know much about revolvers I appreciate what I’m reading here to understand more about what “could” have happened however I don’t believe for an instance that Baldwin didn’t pull the trigger since he admitted to doing so in a previous interview. He is now backtracking on that to save his sorry a$$ from liability, I’m also convinced there are others culpable in this tragedy.
My opinion.
 
I saw an interview with Baldwin and G Stephanopolous late last night and he described the shooting in this way ...........
He claims to have not ever pulled the trigger. He did say, and demonstrated, that he was pulling the hammer back and letting it go back down.

As I recall most all those old model single action revolvers had a pretty long hammer stroke before actually cocking/locking into a firing position. If that's the case, then it makes sense and is possible he could have pulled the hammer back to a point that when released, and if released quickly and completely, it could have struck the cartridge primer hard enough to detonate it, and from there we know the result.

I'm not making any excuses for Baldwin. I think what I saw in him last night was real and I'm a pretty good study of people and their emotions and responses with lots of training in that field. I think he was truly hurting regardless of his acting ability.

I don't have an issue with him personally but am at 180 degree's with him to his politics. But I'm a very logical man who as often as possible looks for the logical answer. Now while I don't believe for a moment he intended to kill the lady, neither do I believe he knows enough about firearms in general to know what to look for in a loaded gun, nor how to go about it. Certainly that does not excuse him from responsibility as all responsible gun owners recognize, but it does explain how why he might have been pulling the hammer back not knowing what it could lead to.

Hopefully it'll all come out in court and the truth will stand tall. Then and only then will the family of the victim be at liberty to begin the healing process to whatever extent they can. How ever it all comes out, there will be no winners. Any/all shootings are tragic and many people suffer when one occurs, whether intentional, accidental, out of ignorance, or any other reason. Right is right, and wrong is wrong .............. it's only right to give him the benefit of the doubt until ALL the facts are know and made available.
 
jumpinjoe said:
I saw an interview with Baldwin and G Stephanopolous late last night and he described the shooting in this way ...........
He claims to have not ever pulled the trigger. He did say, and demonstrated, that he was pulling the hammer back and letting it go back down.

As I recall most all those old model single action revolvers had a pretty long hammer stroke before actually cocking/locking into a firing position. If that's the case, then it makes sense and is possible he could have pulled the hammer back to a point that when released, and if released quickly and completely, it could have struck the cartridge primer hard enough to detonate it, and from there we know the result.

I'm not making any excuses for Baldwin. I think what I saw in him last night was real and I'm a pretty good study of people and their emotions and responses with lots of training in that field. I think he was truly hurting regardless of his acting ability.

I don't have an issue with him personally but am at 180 degree's with him to his politics. But I'm a very logical man who as often as possible looks for the logical answer. Now while I don't believe for a moment he intended to kill the lady, neither do I believe he knows enough about firearms in general to know what to look for in a loaded gun, nor how to go about it. Certainly that does not excuse him from responsibility as all responsible gun owners recognize, but it does explain how why he might have been pulling the hammer back not knowing what it could lead to.

Hopefully it'll all come out in court and the truth will stand tall. Then and only then will the family of the victim be at liberty to begin the healing process to whatever extent they can. How ever it all comes out, there will be no winners. Any/all shootings are tragic and many people suffer when one occurs, whether intentional, accidental, out of ignorance, or any other reason. Right is right, and wrong is wrong .............. it's only right to give him the benefit of the doubt until ALL the facts are know and made available.
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This is where I disagree with you Joe, Baldwin is an actor, that was an act, it’s all about him now, he knew better then to cock the hammer and pull the trigger, it seems funny now all of a sudden he states he didn’t pull the trigger, and the so called witness said I didn’t see him pull the trigger, all fake just to cover Baldwin a$$, just my thoughts.
 
I hope we can give him the same "innocent until proven guilty" chance Rittenhouse got. None of us where there, none of us handled the revolver at issue, none of us know all that facts. No matter how much some here dislike him or his politics he should get the same benefit of the doubt you'd give to Tim Allen or Clint Eastwood if they were in this spot.
 
I wouldn't have thought any more of this if Baldwin didn't go on ABC and did what he did, I am not accusing him, but the more he opens his mouth and says stupid things, to me, it makes him more guilty of something. I will leave this at that, done on this thread.
 
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