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This Is How You Would Lose a Gunfight

XD94045 said:
Facts on facts.

This line gave me pause, “Do you run away, move your dominant hand to your holstered pistol, or discreetly access a less-lethal weapon?”

Less-lethal? This brought up a couple of thoughts:

1) There are schools of thought that says carry my knife on my non-dominant side. This means that I have to train to use my left hand to handle a knife.

2) Less-lethal, is a stab wound to the jugular or femoral artery any less lethal?
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I'm left-handed. When I started training in Escrima (Filipino Martial Arts that trains with blades) we trained strong side forward. Most of the students were right handed so I trained right handed. This was back in the 1980s.

When I worked as a bouncer I was usually able to use my right side to handle most situations. When I used to spar in Karate (I'm a 4th degree black belt in American Kenpo) I was usually able hold my own using a right hook punch or a right jab. I rarely had to use my left hand, though I trained Boxing combinations with both hands.

I had some decent kicks so I didn't have to totally rely on using my hands. At 65 years young I can't kick as high as I used to but I'm still able to kick pads with some pretty good power...:)

When I train students at first we work on developing their strong side which is the right side for most students, but I have them start learning simple techniques with their weak side pretty soon after they start training with me.

The Hubud drills from Filipino Martial Arts can be done with either side forward. I use Hubud drills as one of the ways to improve coordination with the weak side.

I taught a private Escrima lesson on Tuesday and we mostly trained the student's left side. He's right handed.

I sometimes do dry fire shooting drills with my weak side (right side) and train drawing my firearm with either hand.
 
XD94045 said:
Facts on facts.

This line gave me pause, “Do you run away, move your dominant hand to your holstered pistol, or discreetly access a less-lethal weapon?”

Less-lethal? This brought up a couple of thoughts:

1) There are schools of thought that says carry my knife on my non-dominant side. This means that I have to train to use my left hand to handle a knife.

2) Less-lethal, is a stab wound to the jugular or femoral artery any less lethal?
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That part of the article jumped out at me, too. I'm an older gentleman and my "plan" is four-fold:
  1. Don't go places I know are anything from sketchy to unsafe
  2. Be situationally aware everywhere else, even "normal" places like home, work, the grocery store, etc.
  3. If a situation develops, take every option available to escape/evade
  4. If all of the above fail and I'm faced with a fight, it's most likely going to be a gunfight
I've had a few folks get on my back about #4. I'm not going to win a hand-to-hand bout with practically anyone. I'm not going to rule it out, but if a 6'2" 200lb person is closing on me, they'll have to decide if I'm worth their life, because I'm not giving up mine for a beatdown.

On a related note, I work on the mental part of this frequently. My hope is that I will never have to deploy my firearm in defense of my life or my family's lives. But I have to decide right now if I could take someone else's life. To me, that question is huge. Unless the answer is yes, I've got no business carrying a concealed firearm.
 
Mike H. said:
Hello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled “This Is How You Would Lose a Gunfight” and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/this-is-how-you-would-lose-a-gunfight/.

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The first thing I do when I go somewhere is look for the exits. If you don't know where the exits are, you are stuck. At a restaurant, I always try to sit facing the door and know where the exits are in emergencies. Avoiding high crime areas is another part of my awareness program. At a gas station, I look around and move so that I can get a 360 degree look. I put the hose on automatic and take a defensive position. Mental training and awareness of your surroundings is critical, so that the use of a lethal weapon is a last resort. The cops don't care, when they roll up on a scene, they will lock you up if you have discharged your firearm, so I have my ACLDN affiliate attorney office on speed dial and hope I never have to call them from a gun shootout.
 
FWIW I think this fits in with the main idea of the original article


90% of muggings occur during the hours of darkness in transitional spaces.

I've talked about Tom Givens before. He's been a Firearms trainer and a cop for over 40 years. He has compiled a list of all of his students who have been in gunfights.

85% of his students had their fight in a parking lot after dark. Frequently while gassing up

Of the four fights that I've been involved in one of them occurred in the kitchen of my house I was in the living room. The other three occurred in parking lots.

My numbers are a little higher because working as a security guard, I spent most of my work life in transitional spaces trifling with petty criminals.

People that wouldn't dream of going after a cop did not have any hesitation we going after me.

I've posted this before but I worked as a security guard for 15 years. I basically people watched for a living and I got pretty good at it.

Over time I've observed certain behavior patterns that when I see them I know that person is up to something.

If I see somebody just aimlessly loitering someplace where there's really no reason for them to be loitering they're almost always doing something they're not supposed to be doing.

Another one that is somewhat specific to being a security guard is when just my presence changes their behavior. If the aimless loiterer watches me come around the corner making my rounds and he takes off he was up to something.

BUT if I come walking around the corner and the aimless loiterer becomes laser focused on what I'm doing, I'm probably the target which connects to the last one which IMO is the most important

If someone is paying an inordinate amount of attention to you, you had better be paying attention to them because it's been my experience but they're sizing you up and deciding whether or not you're a mark. Even if it's just to put the mooch on you for a couple of bucks..
 
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All good info but being elderly female in wheelchair awareness usually means looking straight ahead. Would like to see articles on "differently" abled folks, Just getting in a non automatic door keeps focus off surroundings, being in LEO family greatly increased awareness of attacks on w/c & older-disabled folks. Also would love an article on using a knife for self-defense. Amazing magazine but need women,mom's,holster reviews for pregnant-nursing mom's. Women also carry and need to be included. FYI, 77, in w/c from hanggliding mishap, just got 1st gun-Hellcat Pro 2 months ago. Former police medic, medics don't "carry". All new to me. Thanks.
 
Good points, Hilda. My wife is in a w/c also. She depends on her husband to look out for her, which I try to always do. Hers is a progressive muscle disease, and she would be extremely vulnerable if out without me, but that almost never happens.

Most people do not realize the obstacles others face sometimes with dealing with normally mundane things like an automatic door, finding suitable holsters, etc. Good for you in arming yourself. Are you able to visit a range to familiarize yourself with your. new gun? Most indoor ranges I have been to would not be very w/c friendly. Good luck and God bless!
 
Thank you. south of Mpls Modern Sportsman is an amazing range, very friendly and supportive-except for no automatic door. They go all out to help & encourage. A real blessing.
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Gun life was a hard decision but necessary. Holsters are a challenge as I'm small and not much room between waist & bust so I cross draw. Being elderly with a fixed income ammo is a real challenge. What do you carry and use? Can your wife shoot? Thanks for the reply, have a blessed day to both of you.Shooting.jpg
 
WheelingHilda said:
Can anyone comment on ammo for Hellcat Pro? Just bought Aguila and Sellier Bellot to try. Does 115g vs 124g make a difference? MagTech & Browning 115g weren't smooth and on a fixed income OUCH! Blessings. Thanks.
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124vs115 really doesn’t make a difference, unless you’re shooting at longer ranges —25yds+, at least in FMJ. However, your pistol in your hands may show a distinct preference for one or the other…the only way to find out is try them.

In JHP/defensive rounds, 124’s and 147’s tend to have better performance than 115’s, as far as expansion and penetration are concerned.
 
WheelingHilda said:
Thanks. I range shoot at about 10-25 yds. Aiming upwards from a wheelchair may also affect things. The last knuckle of my thumb by my shooting hand is always red & swollen after shooting. The range officers say I'm gripping the gun just right., Found a new product called Grip Keeper to strengthen hands. Thanks for the reply's to all.
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I think a good medium is to stick with 124 gr. for training purposes. And lots of ammo testing could and should be done for defensive ammo. It's good to train with something that hits real close to where your defensive ammo will hit. I noticed the other day when I was zero'ing a red dot on a VP9SK that the Sellior and Bellot that I just bought 1500 rounds of impacts about an inch higher than my beloved 124 gr. Federal HST. My next step is to test some 124 gr. Punch, 147 gr. Hydra Shok and 147 gr. HST to see if impact is the same as the S&B.
 
Thanks for the input. I never thought of the sense of using as close to defensive ammo as possible. I did accidentely shoot a 15 round mag of Federal HST but didn't realize it so didn't think of comparison. When I 1st got my gun I was told to use HST in primary mag and Punch topped with HST for backup mag. Don't know the difference. At breakfast I was reading new Armory with article on Steve Hornady and an hour later sadly heard about the fatal plant explosion. Prayers. Is it right that 124g. makes recoil worse? Even if so, glad for the input of using same as defensive rounds.Thanks.
 
WheelingHilda said:
Thanks for the input. I never thought of the sense of using as close to defensive ammo as possible. I did accidentely shoot a 15 round mag of Federal HST but didn't realize it so didn't think of comparison. When I 1st got my gun I was told to use HST in primary mag and Punch topped with HST for backup mag. Don't know the difference. At breakfast I was reading new Armory with article on Steve Hornady and an hour later sadly heard about the fatal plant explosion. Prayers. Is it right that 124g. makes recoil worse? Even if so, glad for the input of using same as defensive rounds.Thanks.
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Not in my experience. Recoil difference is negligible, depending on the specific gun.

HST and Punch are both reliable and effective and I may have made suggestions to try them to a new gun owner as well, but I fail to understand the suggestion to mix ammo like that unless the idea is to save money. Carry ammo is not something I choose based on price. Your life is worth buying the most effective ammo for your gun, regardless of price.

You have to understand that just because they are top tier and generally reliable that doesn't mean they will be the best choice for your particular weapon. Every gun is different, even the same makes and models. That said, both rounds work great in all my 9mm handguns. Punch is more or less a more affordable Self defense round geared for civilians. Less attention to things like barrier penetration and other aspects of law enforcement criteria.

As Hans pointed out I would avoid 115 gr. for self defense. I would shoot some of the 124 gr. HST and some of the Punch and any other self defense ammo you are looking at ( Hornady critical defense, Federal Hydrashok, Speer Gold Dot are all respectable ). Maybe a mag or two of each and see which performs best in your gun and stick to that.
 
I'm so grateful for all the knowledge shared. Thanks. The 1st few times at the range I was amazed at 90% of shoppers/shooters were past retirement age-then realized I'm the same age as "old" people. Retired, on fixed income it's not easy - have others noticed this "older" trend? Miles to go before sunset. I found 1 class for disabled folks where you are gently helped to the floor and helped to learn to shoot in unexpected situations. I'm also shocked at how many "gun protection" companies are actually insurance companies with lots of "out's" in coverage. Thanks.
 
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