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Turkenelli M4gery

Excellent review Hans. The Sterling v Truball was a completely expected and infinitely repeatable outcome. I do have a pile of Sterling, but it is inaccurate at anything further than 10 yards or so and not minutely accurate even then. The Sterling buck is better, but I don't load any Sterling or Rio or any of that other crap in a defense shotgun other than at the range. I wouldn't use it for course work either. Truball is good :poop:, I like the 1650 FPS stuff though.

A few years ago on two separate occasions I bought piles of Fiocchi and it ran like :poop:. The A5 didn't like it and the KSG25 didn't like it. And yes I know KSGs are known to be finnicky, but mine isn't and never was. I didn't have to do any fluff and buff or any of that other crap to it. The only time it ever had an issue was when the selector switch rattled it's way a little loose and it started intermittently failing to feed. The switch should really have a shoulder as it cannot be tightened too much or it won't move ( obviously) but too loose and it won't feed properly. I degreased the screw and put a drop of the dreaded blue loctite on the screw and tightened it properly and have had no issues since. I chalk it up to an inferior design.

I was never overly impressed with Hornady shotshells either. Or the Black Aces stuff.

I know you said the Truball shot straight, did you pay attention to the pattern on the Flite Control, the Remington and the Winchester defender buck ? It do okay?
 
Bassbob said:
Excellent review Hans. The Sterling v Truball was a completely expected and infinitely repeatable outcome. I do have a pile of Sterling, but it is inaccurate at anything further than 10 yards or so and not minutely accurate even then. The Sterling buck is better, but I don't load any Sterling or Rio or any of that other crap in a defense shotgun other than at the range. I wouldn't use it for course work either. Truball is good :poop:, I like the 1650 FPS stuff though.

A few years ago on two separate occasions I bought piles of Fiocchi and it ran like :poop:. The A5 didn't like it and the KSG25 didn't like it. And yes I know KSGs are known to be finnicky, but mine isn't and never was. I didn't have to do any fluff and buff or any of that other crap to it. The only time it ever had an issue was when the selector switch rattled it's way a little loose and it started intermittently failing to feed. The switch should really have a shoulder as it cannot be tightened too much or it won't move ( obviously) but too loose and it won't feed properly. I degreased the screw and put a drop of the dreaded blue loctite on the screw and tightened it properly and have had no issues since. I chalk it up to an inferior design.

I was never overly impressed with Hornady shotshells either. Or the Black Aces stuff.

I know you said the Truball shot straight, did you pay attention to the pattern on the Flite Control, the Remington and the Winchester defender buck ? It do okay?
Click to expand...
It was misting heavily enough that I just shot at plates. Figured this was a reliability test, and a pattern test will be the next time out.

I will say this about the Fiocchi…it was consistent. Every time I shot it, it put the shells in a tight little pile on the ground…
 
HansGruber said:
It was misting heavily enough that I just shot at plates. Figured this was a reliability test, and a pattern test will be the next time out.

I will say this about the Fiocchi…it was consistent. Every time I shot it, it put the shells in a tight little pile on the ground…
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Could be their QC has improved or it could just be me.

I'm glad your shotgun is running for you brother. Nice inexpensive range toy is just what the doctor ordered sometimes.
 
HansGruber said:
So:

The day was pretty gray & misty. Didn’t get to run as much as I wanted…although, my shoulder said it was plenty.

View attachment 30154

It was just me, so…there’s not as many pics; it was a bit of a pain to take my gloves off every time I wanted to take a pic. Also, since weather didn’t look that great, I only ran 5 rounds of most of the loads.

I started off with Federal Tactical Flite Control 00; 9 pellet, 1350fps max load. Loaded 5 in the tube, and…the first round hung up, wouldn’t hit the lifter. A bit inauspicious…I depressed it slightly, and felt it pop back against my finger. Hit the loading switch, and it fed. Ran all 5, no issues.

Next, the Fiocchi 00; 9 pellet, 1250 fps. No loading issues, and they ran fine as well, although definitely did not eject as aggressively as the Federal…View attachment 30155
Blue hulls: Fiocchi, red hulls: Federal

On to Winchester Ranger low recoil 00; 9 pellet, unknown velocity (not printed on box). Ran perfectly. I kinda expected an issue with this load, but was pleasantly surprised when it didn’t choke.

Hornady Black 8 pellet, 1600fps 00. Holy sh(o)t!!! This is hot stuff, folks. Massive muzzle flash, magnum-level recoil, and kicked the hulls a good 8-10 feet. Ran fine, though.

Winchester Defender 9 pellet 00, 1145fps. Another one I thought there might be issues with. There weren’t.

Remington 0 12 pellet, 1275fps. Hotter than I expected; serious kick, threw the shells further than the Hornady. No issues.

And…Winchester 3” magnum 15 pellet, 1210fps 00. Threw the hulls into the next county. Magnum recoil. Ran perfectly.

On to slugs, as it was at this point I discovers I forgot the trap/bird loads. Crap on a crap flavored cracker.

I ran Federal Truball 1oz low recoil, Winchester Defender 1oz slug+3 pellet 00, and Sterling Tornado slugs. All ran great; the TruBall rang the 25yd gong 5 out of 5 shots; the Sterling was all over the place.

And, some goofing around…Federal Mini #4 buck. No way this runs, and I was MOSTLY right. Loaded one round in the spout, and two more in the tube, and…failure, as expected.View attachment 30156
Failed to eject, and two rounds jammed on the lifter.View attachment 30157
I was able to force the forward shell back into the magazine and get it to feed the round, fired again, expecting another FTE…but, nope. It ejected, and fed the round in the tube. Tried it again, put one mini in the chamber, dropped the bolt, put one mini in the mag…it ejected the first round, fed the second (but didn’t eject the second round). I was more than just a little surprised.

Then ran a bunch more of the Fiocchi, to see why @Bassbob doesn’t like it; figured I’d video it, so I one-handed, action-hero’d the magazine…nope. Failure to feed. However…this shouldn’t come as a surprise, since a LOT of semi-autos won’t feed reliably unless firmly shouldered/held. Cleared it, shoulders it, dumped the mag. Reloaded, ran 5 as fast as I could.

I’ll have to figure out a way to upload the video…can’t do it directly from my phone, I guess.

So, there you have it. I was expecting more than a few failures, but…it seems the AKSA S4–at least MY s4–is solid. Is it “as good as” a Benelli? Nope. I still believe that one is rolling the dice when they get one of these, where the Benelli will be an almost sure bet.

But sometimes when you gamble—you win.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you definitely did well.
 
So…a bit more testing.
C156E6DD-5055-4E9A-8CCE-FA5EBB0F6B06.jpeg


I had two trap/light field loads from Federal, one from Winchester. Just loaded up and did dumps…zero failures.
CD548540-EB49-4886-AE9E-9C7A1C05FB29.jpeg

Tried patterning some buckshot, as well…and the results should show why if you’re using a shotgun for defense, it’s vital that you pattern it.
I picked up some Federal Premium Plated 00 Flite Control..which is basically the same load as the Tactical Flite Control, as the patterns showed.
8E00FA7F-CEC7-4878-8BDA-59786EC9C40B.jpeg

From left to right: Federal Tactical Flite Control, Federal Premium Flite Control, and Fiocchi Defense Dynamics. All 9 pellet 00 load; 1350fps for Federal; 1250 for Fiocchi. Shots taken at 20 feet with the cylinder choke tube; figured this was a fair representation of a HD shoot distance.

So: the Federal loads? Might as well have been a slug; zero shot dispersion. The Fiocchi…gave about a 5” pattern. Now, I’ll let everyone draw their own conclusions on what is desirable, as there’s benefits and drawbacks to both…it’ll pretty much come down to if you are a member of the “scattergun” or “big rifle” school of shotgun use.

I then went back to 50 feet, and decided to only test the Fiocchi vs the Federal Premium.
9AD07656-C1B2-44FB-9C6A-6EFCA15A3671.jpeg

Federal.
AAED9011-7278-433E-841D-BECED78EF5A8.jpeg

Fiocchi.

Thr Fiocchi is definitely a lot more spread out; in fact, the Federal pattern is tighter at 50 feet than the Fiocchi was at 20.

So, pattern your shotguns, folks.

More to come as I shoot it more but…I’d have no qualms about using it in the HD role at this point.

Gonna get a cheap red dot for it, I think.
 
HansGruber said:
So…a bit more testing.View attachment 30716

I had two trap/light field loads from Federal, one from Winchester. Just loaded up and did dumps…zero failures.
View attachment 30717
Tried patterning some buckshot, as well…and the results should show why if you’re using a shotgun for defense, it’s vital that you pattern it.
I picked up some Federal Premium Plated 00 Flite Control..which is basically the same load as the Tactical Flite Control, as the patterns showed.
View attachment 30718
From left to right: Federal Tactical Flite Control, Federal Premium Flite Control, and Fiocchi Defense Dynamics. All 9 pellet 00 load; 1350fps for Federal; 1250 for Fiocchi. Shots taken at 20 feet with the cylinder choke tube; figured this was a fair representation of a HD shoot distance.

So: the Federal loads? Might as well have been a slug; zero shot dispersion. The Fiocchi…gave about a 5” pattern. Now, I’ll let everyone draw their own conclusions on what is desirable, as there’s benefits and drawbacks to both…it’ll pretty much come down to if you are a member of the “scattergun” or “big rifle” school of shotgun use.

I then went back to 50 feet, and decided to only test the Fiocchi vs the Federal Premium.View attachment 30719
Federal.
View attachment 30720
Fiocchi.

Thr Fiocchi is definitely a lot more spread out; in fact, the Federal pattern is tighter at 50 feet than the Fiocchi was at 20.

So, pattern your shotguns, folks.

More to come as I shoot it more but…I’d have no qualms about using it in the HD role at this point.

Gonna get a cheap red dot for it, I think.
Click to expand...
Awesome. And yeah the Fiocchis kinda suck a little. Range fodder at best. I would never load it for SD. Your point about patterning cannot be overstated. Particularly with loads you plan on using for SD/HD.

When you say cheap red dot do you mean $100 or $300 because I have shotgun optic recommendations for both price ranges. Though I have to say I am seriously considering dropping 4 and a half on the Meprolight Tru Vision and trying it out on the TS-12. Then in December when I get the M1014 I'll either put the Meprolight on it or a 510C. Though something is telling me I need to try out a Burris Fastfire on the Benelli or the Beretta. I kinda think it co-witnesses with the ghost rings.
 
HansGruber said:
So…a bit more testing.View attachment 30716

I had two trap/light field loads from Federal, one from Winchester. Just loaded up and did dumps…zero failures.
View attachment 30717
Tried patterning some buckshot, as well…and the results should show why if you’re using a shotgun for defense, it’s vital that you pattern it.
I picked up some Federal Premium Plated 00 Flite Control..which is basically the same load as the Tactical Flite Control, as the patterns showed.
View attachment 30718
From left to right: Federal Tactical Flite Control, Federal Premium Flite Control, and Fiocchi Defense Dynamics. All 9 pellet 00 load; 1350fps for Federal; 1250 for Fiocchi. Shots taken at 20 feet with the cylinder choke tube; figured this was a fair representation of a HD shoot distance.

So: the Federal loads? Might as well have been a slug; zero shot dispersion. The Fiocchi…gave about a 5” pattern. Now, I’ll let everyone draw their own conclusions on what is desirable, as there’s benefits and drawbacks to both…it’ll pretty much come down to if you are a member of the “scattergun” or “big rifle” school of shotgun use.

I then went back to 50 feet, and decided to only test the Fiocchi vs the Federal Premium.View attachment 30719
Federal.
View attachment 30720
Fiocchi.

Thr Fiocchi is definitely a lot more spread out; in fact, the Federal pattern is tighter at 50 feet than the Fiocchi was at 20.

So, pattern your shotguns, folks.

More to come as I shoot it more but…I’d have no qualms about using it in the HD role at this point.

Gonna get a cheap red dot for it, I think.
Click to expand...

Looks like, you chose wisely...
 
Bassbob said:
Awesome. And yeah the Fiocchis kinda suck a little. Range fodder at best. I would never load it for SD. Your point about patterning cannot be overstated. Particularly with loads you plan on using for SD/HD.

When you say cheap red dot do you mean $100 or $300 because I have shotgun optic recommendations for both price ranges. Though I have to say I am seriously considering dropping 4 and a half on the Meprolight Tru Vision and trying it out on the TS-12. Then in December when I get the M1014 I'll either put the Meprolight on it or a 510C. Though something is telling me I need to try out a Burris Fastfire on the Benelli or the Beretta. I kinda think it co-witnesses with the ghost rings.
Click to expand...
I’m thinking Fastfire, etc. 1-200, tops…

Might get a venom; local place has one for $229, iirc.
 
HansGruber said:
I’m thinking Fastfire, etc. 1-200, tops…

Might get a venom; local place has one for $229, iirc.
Click to expand...
Venom is a nice sight. My only complaint is no shake awake. I have it on a range gun though so it's not a deal breaker. I think on SD gun I have to have shake awake. Though I'm sure you could leave it on all the time and the battery would last a year or better.
 
Don't those Fiocchi loads supposedly have some kind of special wad ? Allegedly similar to the FC wad?


"Hard - hitting lead 00 buckshot is backed by a proprietary was design that focuses the shot column and ensures optimal pellet impact on close to near - distant targets." ( Typo is theirs)
 
10mmLife said:
Here's a great RDS option that you may not even be aware of.

This Bushnell RDS is actually a higher quality rebranded South Korean red dot sold under the Bushnell name.

Natchez

www.natchezss.com www.natchezss.com
Click to expand...

I like the description of the reticle, but something about Bushnell RDS is off putting to me. And no shake wake. Romeo 5 is in that price range too.
 
Bassbob said:
Don't those Fiocchi loads supposedly have some kind of special wad ? Allegedly similar to the FC wad?


"Hard - hitting lead 00 buckshot is backed by a proprietary was design that focuses the shot column and ensures optimal pellet impact on close to near - distant targets." ( Typo is theirs)
Click to expand...
Yep. Not nearly as effective, though…
 
HansGruber said:
Yep. Not nearly as effective, though…
Click to expand...
Clearly.

I get these ideas in my head I can't shake. Like Fiocchi sucks. And although I have and really like my Bushnell Elite 6500 scope, I don't like Bushnell red dots. It's like I think I have a sixth sense about these things which could be my imagination. Or a bad experience or two coloring my opinion.

Obviously I was on to something with the Fiocchi though. I can get patterns like that from RIO at half the price. That's about Sterling patterns there. Have you tried the Force X 2 ? Patterns aren't up there with Flite Control, but if you're going to have a 5" pattern you may as well have 18 projectiles. I like the stuff.
 
Bassbob said:
Clearly.

I get these ideas in my head I can't shake. Like Fiocchi sucks. And although I have and really like my Bushnell Elite 6500 scope, I don't like Bushnell red dots. It's like I think I have a sixth sense about these things which could be my imagination. Or a bad experience or two coloring my opinion.

Obviously I was on to something with the Fiocchi though. I can get patterns like that from RIO at half the price. That's about Sterling patterns there. Have you tried the Force X 2 ? Patterns aren't up there with Flite Control, but if you're going to have a 5" pattern you may as well have 18 projectiles. I like the stuff.
Click to expand...
I haven’t tried the Force…pricy stuff. I’m interested in how the Einchester Defend stuff patterns.
 
HansGruber said:
So…a bit more testing.View attachment 30716

I had two trap/light field loads from Federal, one from Winchester. Just loaded up and did dumps…zero failures.
View attachment 30717
Tried patterning some buckshot, as well…and the results should show why if you’re using a shotgun for defense, it’s vital that you pattern it.
I picked up some Federal Premium Plated 00 Flite Control..which is basically the same load as the Tactical Flite Control, as the patterns showed.
View attachment 30718
From left to right: Federal Tactical Flite Control, Federal Premium Flite Control, and Fiocchi Defense Dynamics. All 9 pellet 00 load; 1350fps for Federal; 1250 for Fiocchi. Shots taken at 20 feet with the cylinder choke tube; figured this was a fair representation of a HD shoot distance.

So: the Federal loads? Might as well have been a slug; zero shot dispersion. The Fiocchi…gave about a 5” pattern. Now, I’ll let everyone draw their own conclusions on what is desirable, as there’s benefits and drawbacks to both…it’ll pretty much come down to if you are a member of the “scattergun” or “big rifle” school of shotgun use.

I then went back to 50 feet, and decided to only test the Fiocchi vs the Federal Premium.View attachment 30719
Federal.
View attachment 30720
Fiocchi.

Thr Fiocchi is definitely a lot more spread out; in fact, the Federal pattern is tighter at 50 feet than the Fiocchi was at 20.

So, pattern your shotguns, folks.

More to come as I shoot it more but…I’d have no qualms about using it in the HD role at this point.

Gonna get a cheap red dot for it, I think.
Click to expand...
Glad the Turkish wonder has been excellent for you.
Something about shooting a shotgun is just a different kind of fun 👍
 
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