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What a idiot

ECS686 said:
Respectfully your throwing mud in the wall.

When you have a mental issue kid that makes threats is investigated about those threats and you buy a firearm for the kid and allow him to possess it to the point he takes it and dies so thing is what got this father and the Michigan shooters parents charged.

We are not talking about a 18 plus criminal having it getting parents charged.

This case is more than some Karen calling the the police and a non due process Red Flag item

People just get emotionally or politically involved from both sides of the issue because a firearm was involved
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Again, I am not just talking about this case or even the Crumbley case. I am talking about unprecedented prosecutions that are destined to have consequences far beyond today's headlines. Once you start allowing parents to be charged with murder for murders committed by their children there is no turning back. And if you don't think Everytown and the rest of the rabid anti-gun cabal is going to push this to the very extreme you really haven't been paying attention the last 40 years.
 
Bassbob said:
Again, I am not just talking about this case or even the Crumbley case. I am talking about unprecedented prosecutions that are destined to have consequences far beyond today's headlines. Once you start allowing parents to be charged with murder for murders committed by their children there is no turning back. And if you don't think Everytown and the rest of the rabid anti-gun cabal is going to push this to the very extreme you really haven't been paying attention the last 40 years.
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Yep as we all know its Already happened in Michigan, parent arrested, tried and convicted. I believe that train has left, exited the yard and is picking up speed on a downhill grade. Nothing going to stop it now..
 
This is just another attack on guns and gun owners. Like BassBob said, "father of the year" not so much. More busy bodies "it takes a village" Cowpies. How about blaming the responsible party, the bleeping shooter. Quit finding excuses for his actions and shift some of the blame to others. This POS knew right from wrong and made a conscious decision to choose wrong. Finding the parents responsible, or at least trying to is going to become more and more common. Even if the father is found not guilty, he has been put through 2,3,5 years of hell and that's a "win" for the loony left right there.
 
Bassbob said:
Again, I am not just talking about this case or even the Crumbley case. I am talking about unprecedented prosecutions that are destined to have consequences far beyond today's headlines. Once you start allowing parents to be charged with murder for murders committed by their children there is no turning back. And if you don't think Everytown and the rest of the rabid anti-gun cabal is going to push this to the very extreme you really haven't been paying attention the last 40 years.
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I am not aware of any “prosecutions” of parents that take their kids hunting or shooting etc. that do something as an adult so that’s a huge stretch

There are also how many other under 18 yo shooters that their parents have not been charged with anything related to their shooting incident??? The majority of them have not.

Arrested for other things some have but only a handful like the parent that had her 7 year old take a gun to school and shot her teacher.

I work as a school protection officer and the first week of school at an elementary school within my corporation a 4th grader came to school and Moms guy was I. Her backpack however she alerted the teacher it was contained. It was placed there the night before by the Mom because they were going in somewhere and left it in the car and Mim forgot. This was over 3 weeks and no charges yet and likely there will not be. DCS was involved though as to that status is.
The sticking point is the kid in this case was not shooting anyone accidentally or otherwise.

So if your claim was true in that case she would have been arrested either way
 
ECS686 said:
I am not aware of any “prosecutions” of parents that take their kids hunting or shooting etc. that do something as an adult so that’s a huge stretch

There are also how many other under 18 yo shooters that their parents have not been charged with anything related to their shooting incident??? The majority of them have not.

Arrested for other things some have but only a handful like the parent that had her 7 year old take a gun to school and shot her teacher.

I work as a school protection officer and the first week of school at an elementary school within my corporation a 4th grader came to school and Moms guy was I. Her backpack however she alerted the teacher it was contained. It was placed there the night before by the Mom because they were going in somewhere and left it in the car and Mim forgot. This was over 3 weeks and no charges yet and likely there will not be. DCS was involved though as to that status is.
The sticking point is the kid in this case was not shooting anyone accidentally or otherwise.

So if your claim was true in that case she would have been arrested either way
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Yeah, at one time suing Remington for the Sandy Hook shooting was a huge stretch too.
 
ECS686 said:
It isn’t a straw purchase. You can gift someone a gun.

A straw is where you are buying a gun for someone else usually when they are a prohibited person

Typical example Hone Girl comes in with felon boyfriend gang banger and she’s pointing at different guns and Himie say no, no yeah that one she asks to see it handles it is clueless and then buys or try’s to but.

Seen that anti. If times in the store and we always refuse the sale
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well i did a quick search on RI guns laws, apparently here, one must still go thru a background check, even if gifted..

img
Criminal Lawyer: Andres Sanchez
Inheriting or receiving a firearm as a gift can be subject to various laws, both federal and state-specific. Since you are in Rhode Island, there are specific considerations you should be aware of:Federal Law Considerations: Under federal law, an individual must be at least 18 years old to legally possess a shotgun or rifle and at least 21 years old to possess a handgun.

As you are 19, you would be legally permitted to take possession of a shotgun or rifle, but not a handgun.

In Rhode Island, the transfer of firearms, including those inherited, must be conducted through a licensed dealer. This requirement is applicable regardless of whether the firearm is being transferred as a sale, gift, or inheritance. When a firearm is transferred through a licensed dealer, the dealer will conduct a background check on the recipient as part of the process. This ensures that all firearms transactions comply with both state and federal laws.
 
Old_Me said:
well i did a quick search on RI guns laws, apparently here, one must still go thru a background check, even if gifted..

img
Criminal Lawyer: Andres Sanchez
Inheriting or receiving a firearm as a gift can be subject to various laws, both federal and state-specific. Since you are in Rhode Island, there are specific considerations you should be aware of:Federal Law Considerations: Under federal law, an individual must be at least 18 years old to legally possess a shotgun or rifle and at least 21 years old to possess a handgun.

As you are 19, you would be legally permitted to take possession of a shotgun or rifle, but not a handgun.

In Rhode Island, the transfer of firearms, including those inherited, must be conducted through a licensed dealer. This requirement is applicable regardless of whether the firearm is being transferred as a sale, gift, or inheritance. When a firearm is transferred through a licensed dealer, the dealer will conduct a background check on the recipient as part of the process. This ensures that all firearms transactions comply with both state and federal laws.
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Under federal law those age restrictions are to BUY a gun, NOT possess a gun. Obviously.
 
Bassbob said:
Under federal law those age restrictions are to BUY a gun, NOT possess a gun. Obviously.
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yeah, i am still trying to look this up for my state...i can find that no one, under the age of 21 can have ANY gun or ammo so far..

it is not "gift specific", all i can surmise (not assume) is that gifting will need to go thru an FFL check...but then again, under the age of 21 is a no-no here.

that's why i did mention, gun laws are different all across the country
 
Old_Me said:
well i did a quick search on RI guns laws, apparently here, one must still go thru a background check, even if gifted..

img
Criminal Lawyer: Andres Sanchez
Inheriting or receiving a firearm as a gift can be subject to various laws, both federal and state-specific. Since you are in Rhode Island, there are specific considerations you should be aware of:Federal Law Considerations: Under federal law, an individual must be at least 18 years old to legally possess a shotgun or rifle and at least 21 years old to possess a handgun.

As you are 19, you would be legally permitted to take possession of a shotgun or rifle, but not a handgun.

In Rhode Island, the transfer of firearms, including those inherited, must be conducted through a licensed dealer. This requirement is applicable regardless of whether the firearm is being transferred as a sale, gift, or inheritance. When a firearm is transferred through a licensed dealer, the dealer will conduct a background check on the recipient as part of the process. This ensures that all firearms transactions comply with both state and federal laws.
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Newtown was in Connecticut however it’s probably the same.

This is really no different Jan a case where a parent provides alcohol and the kid kill’s someone in a vehicle. But a gun is involved so people get emotional about it.

I find it hard to believe anyone here after the FBi and state investigators interview them and their kid for serious documented threats would find it appropriate to then turn around and buy a firearm as a gift later the same year
 
bc22wm said:
This is just another attack on guns and gun owners. Like BassBob said, "father of the year" not so much. More busy bodies "it takes a village" Cowpies. How about blaming the responsible party, the bleeping shooter. Quit finding excuses for his actions and shift some of the blame to others. This POS knew right from wrong and made a conscious decision to choose wrong. Finding the parents responsible, or at least trying to is going to become more and more common. Even if the father is found not guilty, he has been put through 2,3,5 years of hell and that's a "win" for the loony left right there.
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thing is, under the age, a parent should be held accountable,,,and face the consequences.

take for instance, under age kids, stoning cars as they drive by

dropping rocks off overpasses

knocking over gravestones

these have been happening all over the country, surely you have read about any one of them at one time or another.

these "crimes" committed by kids under the age of 21, the parents end up paying for damages, as the parents are responsible for those under aged kids

once they reach the age of adult, either 18 or 21, depending on the state law where they live, then and only then are they 100% responsible for thier actions.

now in this particular situation, is this really an attack on guns and gun owners, or in all reality, an attack on an irresponsible parent..????

i say...on the parent,
 
At this point, I haven't decided on the parent's legal culpability yet, as I don't have all the facts. The thread is a robust discussion. My Dad bought us some when we were young, and we were responsible with them. Today is a different time and as some already pointed out, we're not going back to that. Fine. What are we going toward then? That is the answer we all need to get otherwise the "progressives" will map that out for everyone. This is a culture war, and we have been losing it, for decades. You can disagree with that or not, but until we right the ship, we are sinking.
 
well .02
whether we believe dad is guilty or innocent
the lesson here is at least one important item.
NEVER EVER speak to police about a matter concerning you or your family without knowing and exercising your rights.

DAD put both feet in his mouth with the released recording of yes his son has access to the guns in the house.
dad should have said ...yes while we are hunting, the son may use my firearms. STOP

obviously the 14 year old has some issues, just listening to him in court, 14?????
lots to unpack by the next court date in dec.
4 people dead??? why
plus the injured
boy was bullied, by dads words last year.

very disturbing
 
dadoser said:
1 - there will always be idiot parents (and children)
2 - I'm not arguing the law here.

Mass shooting in schools are tragic and seem to be increasing. Nothing will prevent them all. If the legal age to buy a long gun/shotgun is 18 and a handgun is 21, then If one buys a firearm for someone under the legal age - I think it is fair to hold the buyer accountable for death/injury/destruction caused by the recipient of that firearm.

If this fear of jail results in parents knowing their kids better and forces them to be more aware of their mental states, I think that is a good thing. If this deterrent stops even a hand full of schools shootings, that is good.

I do not see this as a violation of the 2A. And its a way better strategy than an "assault" weapons (not my language) ban and/or mag capacity limits, etc.

I just think the 2A community needs to get in the discussion and offer some strategies for prevention of these shooting. Folding our hands and screaming "2A" or "thoughts and prayers" - makes us look like we don't care.

I'm good with parental accountability.
I'm good with practical safe storage laws.
I'm also good with raising the purchase age of all firearms to 21 - with possible exceptions for military.
(I know I'll take sh*t for that last one.)

On an additional note on the 21 age restriction -
I'm 60. Since I grew up, our society has extended adolescence into one's 20s. And a whole lot of 20 somethings act that way. If one feels good buying a firearm for an under 21 yr old in our current society - let them, with accountability.
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Well said
 
powerboatr said:
well .02
whether we believe dad is guilty or innocent
the lesson here is at least one important item.
NEVER EVER speak to police about a matter concerning you or your family without knowing and exercising your rights.

DAD put both feet in his mouth with the released recording of yes his son has access to the guns in the house.
dad should have said ...yes while we are hunting, the son may use my firearms. STOP
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so this with an adjustment. NEVER EVER speak to the police about any matter without having your lawyer present while exercising your 5th amendment rights. It really is that simple. If they take you into custody they were going to do that anyway. You invoke your right, informing them you will be glad to speak with them when your attorney is present. Full stop.
 
these are good vids on the matter, the first is best. Yes I have seen Massad Ayoub's advice on the post shooting as well.


 
Bassbob said:
Again, I am not just talking about this case or even the Crumbley case. I am talking about unprecedented prosecutions that are destined to have consequences far beyond today's headlines. Once you start allowing parents to be charged with murder for murders committed by their children there is no turning back. And if you don't think Everytown and the rest of the rabid anti-gun cabal is going to push this to the very extreme you really haven't been paying attention the last 40 years.
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A bartender can be held liable for serving someone who is obviously intoxicated, if they go on to kill/injure someone while driving drunk.

When you know your kid has problems, to the point the FBI has taken notice…giving them access to a firearm is no different than pouring that drunk a shot.
 
Again I know this is a sensitive subject but I do feel that parents should be held accountable in this case . People grow up in all different ways. I didn’t grow up in a house with guns in it so I don’t have those feelings like some of you which I can understand and that being said this is my opinion only
 
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