testtest

Will the AR pistols make a return?

Hammer67 said:
If what I have posted isn't true, then tell me - as of 11/8/23 what is the legal, federal status of the ATF Pistol Brace Rule? Does that only apply to some people?

If you really think this is going to change next week then let's check back in and see where things are at - you may be right, I have no idea. I'm just stating what the current status is. But if you're going to tell me that as of right now, pistol braces "aren't legal" then I'd like to know what you're basing that on, other than speculation.



This just happened a few days ago. Give them a little time?



Do you seriously think I'm denying or naive to those things? I'm definitely not. I'm not posting all of this to speculate on what may happen in the future, I posted this info to let people know what happened last Wednesday, to (hopefully) have people understand why this is different than previous, limited scope injunctions, and I already said multiple times that it will very likely go to SCOTUS eventually. I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make other than, "this might change at some point in the future." If that's all you're trying to say, then sure - yeah it might. But that doesn't conflict with anything I've posted.
Click to expand...

Dude, I am not saying what you said isn't true. A federal judge somewhere issued a blanket injunction against it apparently. What I AM saying is that within days that injunction will be thrown out by some Obama appointed federal judge in a different district court. Saying the rule is dead is premature. The injunction is extremely unlikely to remain in place waiting on a SCOTUS decision.

If you want to start posting up pictures and telling people about your braced, non registered pistols feel free, but I'll bet money PSA, SA and other manufacturers and vendors are not going to be selling braced pistols any time soon.

Of course they never stopped selling pistol braces. The braces themselves are totally legal and always have been.
 
Bassbob said:
Dude, I am not saying what you said isn't true.
Click to expand...

Actually, you did above. But let's just let it go. 😉

And we'll see what happens with this topic. I never said it is a completely settled issue or that it's "dead" - just that as of right now, you are not violating the law if you have one and that's the law until something overturns it. We'll see how long that lasts, and I agree with you (and just about everyone else) that there will be more to come on this topic.
 
Hammer67 said:
Actually, you did above. But let's just let it go. 😉

And we'll see what happens with this topic. I never said it is a completely settled issue or that it's "dead" - just that as of right now, you are not violating the law if you have one and that's the law until something overturns it. We'll see how long that lasts, and I agree with you (and just about everyone else) that there will be more to come on this topic.
Click to expand...
When I first posted in this thread I was unaware of the general injunction.
 
As of this minute, braced pistols are ok. Could change next week. This will go on until all appeals are exhausted. Could be SCOTUS or it could be some other court. If some appeals court comes up with a ruling and SCOTUS declines to hear the case, that court’s ruling will be final. But, my guess is that is a long way in the future.

So, the current ruling will allow people with braced pistol’s to have them. Until the appeals process is final, I don’t think manufacturers will be producing and selling any braced pistols. Too risky. What someone can do is purchase a complete lower, a complete upper with a barrel under 16” and purchase a brace to put on it. Right now that would be ok. Just be prepared to take the brace off or put a 16”+ upper (or barrel) on it in case the next court decision says that a braced pistol is back to being an SBR.

I got the amnesty approval for an SBR. I went ahead and got a stock for it. SBRs are legal in Georgia as long as you have the NFA approval so the only thing that would affect me with this set up is getting approval to take the firearm out of state. So right now what I could do is put the brace back on and travel with it as a braced pistol. I’d be ok. Then put the stock back on once I got in state.

We’ll see what the future brings. No one really knows and most speculate that it will be several years until this comes to a conclusion.
 
The brace rule is dead. It has been losing overvand over again. I don't see SCOTUS upholding the brace rule either. A few conservative Justices have been open opponents of the Chevron Deference, and have already made rulings against the EVA'S "rule changes." Other others have already used in favor of Briun and the historic clause. Lastly, the text of the law and on merit, I don't see any avenue for the ATF and Biden to prevail. I say this a huge pessimist!

 
KillerFord1977 said:
With a form 1 SBR stamp, you can make the firearm any length you want ? Just cant change caliber
7” barrel
10.5” barrel
16” or 20”

Why not just SBR a SA rifle and do what you want ???
Click to expand...
SBR:
  • You need permission to leave the state, and you have to notify the ATF if you move.
  • You can't simply leave it with friends or loved ones (u less you hate them).
  • NFA item items are illegal in some states.
  • There's a $200 tax.
  • You have to have the barrel or receiver engraved.
  • A SBR is of course legally considered a rifle thus falls under many state laws that prohibited rifles in cars, public parks and hunting lands, etc..
  • You have to register it with the government and always walk around with your "papers" when you carry it. You also have to notify your local chef law enforcement officer of what you have.
Pistol Brace:
  • Buy and install brace on pistol, and treat it like any other Glock, XD, or other handguns....
 
uspatriot1960 said:
As of this minute, braced pistols are ok. Could change next week. This will go on until all appeals are exhausted. Could be SCOTUS or it could be some other court. If some appeals court comes up with a ruling and SCOTUS declines to hear the case, that court’s ruling will be final. But, my guess is that is a long way in the future.

So, the current ruling will allow people with braced pistol’s to have them. Until the appeals process is final, I don’t think manufacturers will be producing and selling any braced pistols. Too risky. What someone can do is purchase a complete lower, a complete upper with a barrel under 16” and purchase a brace to put on it. Right now that would be ok. Just be prepared to take the brace off or put a 16”+ upper (or barrel) on it in case the next court decision says that a braced pistol is back to being an SBR.

I got the amnesty approval for an SBR. I went ahead and got a stock for it. SBRs are legal in Georgia as long as you have the NFA approval so the only thing that would affect me with this set up is getting approval to take the firearm out of state. So right now what I could do is put the brace back on and travel with it as a braced pistol. I’d be ok. Then put the stock back on once I got in state.

We’ll see what the future brings. No one really knows and most speculate that it will be several years until this comes to a conclusion.
Click to expand...
To uspatriot1960...side bar if I may
I am very interest in buying or building such as the example you stated about purchasing an upper, a lower and a barrel length I disere. My issue is the more I read the more confused I get. Do this,do that, don't do this, don't do that. Everyone has their likes and dislikes. Any suggestions from your vast knowledge and experience would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
 
WellArmed said:
SBR:
  • You need permission to leave the state, and you have to notify the ATF if you move.
  • You can't simply leave it with friends or loved ones (u less you hate them).
  • NFA item items are illegal in some states.
  • There's a $200 tax.
  • You have to have the barrel or receiver engraved.
  • A SBR is of course legally considered a rifle thus falls under many state laws that prohibited rifles in cars, public parks and hunting lands, etc..
  • You have to register it with the government and always walk around with your "papers" when you carry it. You also have to notify your local chef law enforcement officer of what you have.
Pistol Brace:
  • Buy and install brace on pistol, and treat it like any other Glock, XD, or other handguns....
Click to expand...
I have a gun trust. It can be left to my family
I allow $200-$400 budget for every gun I buy to either Sbr / Suppress or both
-“papers” are on my phone and in gun bags
- engraving is $45 around here and 15 min
 
Equalizer said:
To uspatriot1960...side bar if I may
I am very interest in buying or building such as the example you stated about purchasing an upper, a lower and a barrel length I disere. My issue is the more I read the more confused I get. Do this,do that, don't do this, don't do that. Everyone has their likes and dislikes. Any suggestions from your vast knowledge and experience would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
You can just purchase an AR15 pistol, and then buy a pistol brace of your choosing. That's the simplest route.

Or, you can purchase an AR15 lower, upper, and pistol brace all separately as @uspatriot1960 suggested.
 
Just to clarify: The 5th Circuit ruling is a blanket injunction that is in place until SCOTUS rules on the injunction and eventually the case itself. That means braces are legal again, until SCOTUS makes the injunction ruling. My personal opinion is the Brace case, ghost gun (frame/receiver re-definition), and bump stock will all be overturned on the same basic principle that the ATF overstepped its regulatory authority (in the same vein as the EPA ruling) not 2a grounds.
 
KillerFord1977 said:
I have a gun trust. It can be left to my family
I allow $200-$400 budget for every gun I buy to either Sbr / Suppress or both
-“papers” are on my phone and in gun bags
- engraving is $45 around here and 15 min
Click to expand...
Yes, but with a pistol, one does not have to spend the extra money $250 plus the price of the gun and go through all the red tape just to shoulder their "pistol" when they can shoulder with with a brace. Plus, there are benefits of having a "pistol" over a SBR and standard rifles. I am not happy with having to engrave or make any permanent alterations to any of my firearms.

While I took advantage of the brace amnesty, I would still go back to using a brace when the rule is overturned once and for all. Just stating personal reasons for why I rather have the brace vs SBR.
 
Well Armed is correct. Here’s an example of a pistol and then a brace to put on it:



Or, you can buy a lower and an upper separate:

www.cheaperthandirt.com

Yankee Hill Machine AR-15 Lower Receiver Minus Stock [FC-816701011289]

Cheaper Than Dirt! is America's Ultimate Shooting Sports Discounter, and we live up to that title. Expect bulk ammo deals, discount firearms, parts to build your next gun and more.
www.cheaperthandirt.com www.cheaperthandirt.com


And then add the brace above. Hope this helps.
 
Belt Fed said:
What is this engraving ya'll speak of?
Click to expand...


The ATF requires that all Form 1 short barreled rifles, shotguns or suppressors be engraved with the manufacturer's name (you or legal entity), city and state. Your Name / legal entity name and locale can be engraved any where it is visible and can be as small as 1/16" in height

As an example of required engraving:

“Springfield forum gun trust”
“Anytown, IL”
 
I just looked around and found several different answers. even a form that shows engraving must be done, my forms don't say anything like that. but the manufacture is already stamped on the reciever. i really didn't build it, just put a stock and foregrip on it. this is what i found that my papers don't have that on it.

Screenshot_20220206-193313_Gallery_jpg-2269857.JPG


This is what mine says and the approval conditions. Guess i'll call them tomorrow.

20231112_171339.jpg
20231112_171318.jpg
 
Belt Fed said:
I just looked around and found several different answers. even a form that shows engraving must be done, my forms don't say anything like that. but the manufacture is already stamped on the reciever. i really didn't build it, just put a stock and foregrip on it. this is what i found that my papers don't have that on it.

Screenshot_20220206-193313_Gallery_jpg-2269857.JPG


This is what mine says and the approval conditions. Guess i'll call them tomorrow.

View attachment 47105View attachment 47106
Click to expand...
A regular Form 1 is different than the amnesty pistol brace Form 1. A regular Form 1 will need to be engraved. The engraving was waived for the amnesty Form 1 applications. One of the advantages to having done the amnesty Form 1. The first 2 pictures you show are regular Form 1 approvals, the last 2 pictures are amnesty Form 1 approvals.
 
OkiePewPew said:
Just to clarify: The 5th Circuit ruling is a blanket injunction that is in place until SCOTUS rules on the injunction and eventually the case itself. That means braces are legal again, until SCOTUS makes the injunction ruling. My personal opinion is the Brace case, ghost gun (frame/receiver re-definition), and bump stock will all be overturned on the same basic principle that the ATF overstepped its regulatory authority (in the same vein as the EPA ruling) not 2a grounds.
Click to expand...
Show me somewhere where it says this 5th circuit ruling can't be thrown out by another federal appellate court prior to any SCOTUS action on it.
 
While Judge Kacsmaryk’s court oversees only about 100 counties in northern and central Texas, for now the pistol brace rule cannot be enforced throughout the nation. Note that unlike some seem to believe, the ruling didn’t overturn the NFA or any other provisions within that law. The ball is now in the Justice Department’s court to decide what course of action to try next.

[EDITOR’S NOTE: Most likely, the Justice Department will appeal to the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals. Depending on their decision, which could be to not to stay Judge Matthew Kacsmaryk’s ruling, the Justice Department could then appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court. Even if the Supreme Court would rule in favor of gun owners, which would be a great victory, the 2024 election will have impact on the brace issue as well as many other 2nd Amendment issues. If Republicans lose Congress, expect the Democrats to push a bill that would amend the 1934 National Firearms Act and place braces, and most likely semi-auto rifle-caliber handguns, into the restricted firearms category with machineguns, short-barreled shotguns, short-barreled rifles, and AOWs (Any Other Weapon). The fight for the 2nd Amendment is far from over.]
 
uspatriot1960 said:
A regular Form 1 is different than the amnesty pistol brace Form 1. A regular Form 1 will need to be engraved. The engraving was waived for the amnesty Form 1 applications. One of the advantages to having done the amnesty Form 1. The first 2 pictures you show are regular Form 1 approvals, the last 2 pictures are amnesty Form 1 approvals.
Click to expand...
Yes, @uspis correct. The pistol brace amesty tax free SBRs wait the engraving requirement which that and not having to pay $200 is the only thing that tempted me to finally get a SBR.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top