Will the AR pistols make a return?

[Bassbob]

As of this minute, braced pistols are ok. Could change next week. This will go on until all appeals are exhausted. Could be SCOTUS or it could be some other court. If some appeals court comes up with a ruling and SCOTUS declines to hear the case, that court’s ruling will be final. But, my guess is that is a long way in the future.

So, the current ruling will allow people with braced pistol’s to have them. Until the appeals process is final, I don’t think manufacturers will be producing and selling any braced pistols. Too risky. What someone can do is purchase a complete lower, a complete upper with a barrel under 16” and purchase a brace to put on it. Right now that would be ok. Just be prepared to take the brace off or put a 16”+ upper (or barrel) on it in case the next court decision says that a braced pistol is back to being an SBR.

I got the amnesty approval for an SBR. I went ahead and got a stock for it. SBRs are legal in Georgia as long as you have the NFA approval so the only thing that would affect me with this set up is getting approval to take the firearm out of state. So right now what I could do is put the brace back on and travel with it as a braced pistol. I’d be ok. Then put the stock back on once I got in state.

We’ll see what the future brings. No one really knows and most speculate that it will be several years until this comes to a conclusion.

I think traveling with the brace AND the pistol could cause some problems if the rule goes back into effect. The rule states the brace has to be destroyed or altered so that it can't be reinstalled.


As far as buying a pistol right now, I would certainly avoid buying anything designated as a pistol on a 4473. In other words I wouldn't go to PSA or some other vendor and buy an AR pistol. Buy a stripped lower, build it however you want, it will be listed as "Other". Then buy a complete upper receiver.

 

[uspatriot1960]

I think traveling with the brace AND the pistol could cause some problems if the rule goes back into effect. The rule states the brace has to be destroyed or altered so that it can't be reinstalled.


As far as buying a pistol right now, I would certainly avoid buying anything designated as a pistol on a 4473. In other words I wouldn't go to PSA or some other vendor and buy an AR pistol. Buy a stripped lower, build it however you want, it will be listed as "Other". Then buy a complete upper receiver.

I’m saying that while the rule has been vacated, I can take my stock off and install the brace back on the firearm and it would be a pistol again. For anything, including out of state travel. While in my home state, I would keep the stock on. If the injunction is overruled, it wouldn’t matter. I’d need to file a 5320.20 whether I had a brace or stock on it.

 

[Bassbob]

I’m saying that while the rule has been vacated, I can take my stock off and install the brace back on the firearm and it would be a pistol again. For anything, including out of state travel. While in my home state, I would keep the stock on. If the injunction is overruled, it wouldn’t matter. I’d need to file a 5320.20 whether I had a brace or stock on it.

If it's registered as a SBR I don't know that you can change that designation can you ?

 

[WellArmed]

While Judge Kacsmaryk’s court oversees only about 100 counties in northern and central Texas, for now the pistol brace rule cannot be enforced throughout the nation. Note that unlike some seem to believe, the ruling didn’t overturn the NFA or any other provisions within that law. The ball is now in the Justice Department’s court to decide what course of action to try next.

[EDITOR’S NOTE: Most likely, the Justice Department will appeal to the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals. Depending on their decision, which could be to not to stay Judge Matthew Kacsmaryk’s ruling, the Justice Department could then appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court. Even if the Supreme Court would rule in favor of gun owners, which would be a great victory, the 2024 election will have impact on the brace issue as well as many other 2nd Amendment issues. If Republicans lose Congress, expect the Democrats to push a bill that would amend the 1934 National Firearms Act and place braces, and most likely semi-auto rifle-caliber handguns, into the restricted firearms category with machineguns, short-barreled shotguns, short-barreled rifles, and AOWs (Any Other Weapon). The fight for the 2nd Amendment is far from over.]

I believe that when the ATF appeals the ruling it will be to the 5th court. The 5th court ruled against the ATF and remanded the case back down to the district court in which the most recent ruling comes from. If the ATF appeals this ruling, it will go back up to the 5th Court of Appeals which is the same court that previously ruled against them.

 

[Bassbob]

I believe that when the ATF appeals the ruling to the 5th court, the 5th court ruled against the ATF and remanded the case back down to the district court in which the most recent ruling comes from. If the ATF appeals this ruling, it will go back up to the 5th Court of Appeals which is the same court that previously ruled against them.

Well, that's confusing. That wouldn't be an injunction would it ? An injunction is a stay until the case can be heard by the full court. If the full court already heard it and ruled against them the law is simply struck down. Their only recourse would be to file with the Supreme Court and try to get an emergency stay until SCOTUS hears it.

 

[uspatriot1960]

If it's registered as a SBR I don't know that you can change that designation can you ?

It is only an SBR when it’s configured as an SBR. The lower is what’s registered. If I were to put a 16” upper on it, it would be a regular rifle. Same goes with a brace. If the brace rule injunction stands, an AR with a pistol brace is a pistol. Hope that makes sense.

 

[Bassbob]

It is only an SBR when it’s configured as an SBR. The lower is what’s registered. If I were to put a 16” upper on it, it would be a regular rifle. Same goes with a brace. If the brace rule injunction stands, an AR with a pistol brace is a pistol. Hope that makes sense.

Isn't that lower engraved?

Forgive me, I don't know jack about registering with the government.

 

[uspatriot1960]

Mine isn’t since I did the amnesty Form 1. But I don’t think it matters in this case. Bottom line, an SBR is only an SBR when it is configured as an SBR. Even with an engraved lower, if I put a 16”+ upper or barrel on it, it is no longer an SBR. It is just a rifle.

 

[xdman]

Mine isn’t since I did the amnesty Form 1. But I don’t think it matters in this case. Bottom line, an SBR is only an SBR when it is configured as an SBR. Even with an engraved lower, if I put a 16”+ upper or barrel on it, it is no longer an SBR. It is just a rifle.

You know your supposed to engrave, all form 1’s need to be engraved with the supplementary manufacturer…..you
Specifically in the form 1 application there is box H “additional information” included in the form 1 Form picture below. The form 1 Government form says “REQUIRED” & “WILL” that seems pretty clear cut.

Every NFA Engraving Requirement You Need to Know About

If you own an NFA item, like a suppressor or an SBR, that was made by a company, you no doubt noticed that it is engraved much like any other firearm with

www.silencercentral.com

From the back of the form on how to fill out the form 1 specifically K

 

[10mmLife]

Here's a brief article discussing amnesty form-1 SBR's engraving requirements.

Do you need to engrave ATF Final Rule 2021R-08F approved firearms?

If the SBR equipped with a “stabilizing brace” is registered by May 31, 2023, the possessor is allowed to adopt the markings on the firearm. The maker’s marking exception is only applicable to firearms that are registered pursuant to the final rule. If the firearm is a personally made firearm...

www.nationalguntrusts.com

 

[xdman]

Here's a brief article discussing amnesty form-1 SBR's engraving requirements.

Do you need to engrave ATF Final Rule 2021R-08F approved firearms?

If the SBR equipped with a “stabilizing brace” is registered by May 31, 2023, the possessor is allowed to adopt the markings on the firearm. The maker’s marking exception is only applicable to firearms that are registered pursuant to the final rule. If the firearm is a personally made firearm...

www.nationalguntrusts.com

I stand corrected, but with a warning. How long until the ATF decides to revise that faq? Especially since the official government documents state differently. It’s analogous to the brace it self, first the ATF was ok, them on a whim they weren’t, then they were and back to they were forbidden. The brace “rulings” were “official” opinions, so does an faq answer count more than an opinion? Just playing devils advocate that the whole situation was BS from the beginning and it’s like the ATF did not even bother to read their own official documentation?

 

[Belt Fed]

I will say they could make these forms a lot more understandable for us folks that are not lawyers. Just make them where EVERYBODY can read and know what it means. Us cretins don't understand those high fallutin words they use so well.

 

[xdman]

So, back on topic if braced firearms will come back. This is now the second company shipping again