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Will You Use Your CCW If You Are Attacked?

old but still kicking said:
Look up FBI statistics on personal assaults & the meaning behind the ‘Tueller drill’ or ‘the 21 foot rule’. I’d elaborate but it’d have more impact if you eyeball it for yourself - plus if anyone isn’t willing to or doesn’t, they deserve what they’ll prolly get for failing to think it all the way thru. Just saying ..
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It's been discussed here ad nauseum.

Believe me brother, I spent 9 years working all over the worst parts of N. STL. Murder capitol of the country. I'm well aware of when I need to be violent.
 
Bassbob said:
It's been discussed here ad nauseum.

Believe me brother, I spent 9 years working all over the worst parts of N. STL. Murder capitol of the country. I'm well aware of when I need to be violent.
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My apologies- that’s what I get for assuming you weren’t already far too familiar with the concept - blows my mind when I hear ‘‘well, he only had a ‘blank’ & the bad gun owner or horrid police shot the poor substance abuser attacking him “ from the general public like my kids fellow college students who need a stiff dose of reality administered via a swift kick in the backside !! Gotta go check my spiking bp now. Sorry bassbob.
 
belladonna said:
These days I don't go where things like that happen...but you never know.
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Sometimes "Where things like that happen" comes to you.

I've mentioned it before the two guys you tried to rob me right outside my apartment building. There was no avoiding that one. I had to leave the building to go to work. I mean, to be clear I walked out of the building and over to my car, I unlocked the door and walked around the car and put my lunch box and my body armor in the front seat before they showed up. It's not like they were standing out there in the parking lot and I saw them and went out anyway.
 
The Night Rider said:
Sometimes "Where things like that happen" comes to you.

I've mentioned it before the two guys you tried to rob me right outside my apartment building. There was no avoiding that one. I had to leave the building to go to work. I mean, to be clear I walked out of the building and over to my car, I unlocked the door and walked around the car and put my lunch box and my body armor in the front seat before they showed up. It's not like they were standing out there in the parking lot and I saw them and went out anyway.
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I completely get you 👍
 
Say what you will. Skills that you may have had for years are still perishable without regular training. Just about everywhere I go I try to assess my surroundings, look for exits, possible cover and folks around me. Never sit with my back to the door. Even at my advanced age I still practice fire & movement, weak hand only and multiple targets. Know it's been said before but mindset is key to how you may or may not react to a lethal confrontation.
 
belladonna said:
Well, I am a small female...and if a big burly thug advances toward me with the intent of beating me to a pulp and robbing me and I can't run, I'll shoot him. Size matters. My life matters.
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I really don't like talking about my disabilities but I think they might shed some light on what you said. I have a spinal cord stimulator in my back, just barely can walk without it. Have a prosthetic left hip & COPD. If someone attacks me, even without a weapon, I would probably have to use deadly force. If I received a blow to my to my back I could be paralyzed.
 
Bassbob said:
It's hard to imagine me resorting to a gun against a single attacker who isn't displaying a gun.
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Bob, maybe at your age/health. Now picture yourself 75 yrs old with heart or lung issues (or major joint issues). Your perspective might change…just sayin’. As Clint said “ a man’s gotta know his limitations”, and limitations will vary throughout life😏
 
Shibadog said:
Bob, maybe at your age/health. Now picture yourself 75 yrs old with heart or lung issues (or major joint issues). Your perspective might change…just sayin’. As Clint said “ a man’s gotta know his limitations”, and limitations will vary throughout life😏
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Yep. That’s why I apply my opinions only to myself. I’m 55 and don’t have the stamina ( or patience) I used to have. These days I figure 60 seconds is as long as I got so I will make them count. Another 5-10 years and I’m sure I’ll feel differently.
 
I think we’d all agree no sane person ever “wants” to shoot, much less Kill, another human being. Lethal force is something only to be used in the last extreme when all other options have been exhausted. That said an individual can conceivably be placed in a situation where no alternative other than being brutalized/killed yourself (or seeing that happen to those you love or others) can happen. In such a case force may be the only viable solution. I’d love for their to be a non lethal option that would instantly incapacitate a goblin or two while doing no permanent harm. Sadly no such viable options exist.
 
I was about to reply in kind. To be clear……… “Lethal force is something only to be used in the last extreme when all other options have been exhausted.”———is not a realistic scenario. Criminal aggression typical erupts in an instance, and since the victim’s position is one of having to be “reactive” instead of “pro-active” there aren’t any known realistic “options” that are available if you want to stay upright, and whole.
 
rcurtner said:
When someone is trying to kill or maim you there aren't other options. I would guess that 9 times out of 10 you will be reacting to a serious threat, won't have time to explore options.
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Agreed. If someone is trying to kill me, my goal is not going to be "looking for a less than lethal solution".

I was only pointing out that I am not yet at the age where a one on one fistfight is going to involve me pulling out a firearm or other weapon.
 
Hi,

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Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
I will only use a firearm in circumstances where I feel that innocent life will be forfeit if I fail to use it. I am NOT going to use a firearm to mitigate what I perceive as less than life threatening danger. That said, I am not likely to involve myself in the troubles of other people. I mind my own business until I simply cannot. If I use any sort of force against another person, I will do my best to apply said force in a reasonably measured manner which is appropriate for the circumstance and only for the briefest period of time possible. I have been in plenty of physical altercation over my lifetime and I have had my rear end handed to me more times than not. I never thought that any of those incidents warranted the display or use of a firearm.
 
The Night Rider said:
TL/DR: As law abiding citizens we have inhibitions to overcome and legal considerations that criminals don't have.

I worked as a security guard for 15 years. I would say that probably half of that time I was working downtown and interacting with petty criminals all night long.

I've said this before here but almost every single time that I interacted with one the first words out of their mouth when they realized I was armed were

"What are you going to do, shoot me?"

A couple of them dared me to and I want to clarify that this was just walking up to them with the gun in my holster.

With the exception of clearing buildings I don't think I actually drew my handgun at work more than five times.

I remember two incidents that illustrate the point that I want to make.

The first one was the night that two guys attempted to rob me outside of my home. They did not realize that I was armed until I stepped out from behind my car door and they saw my gun belt. I put my hand on my gun and told them to GTF out of Dodge.

The important part of this is it the whole time this was going on my mind was racing. Am I justified? Can I convince the police that I'm justified? Am I going to go to jail for defending myself? What do I do if these guys don't back down?

I was more afraid of the repercussions if I was wrong then I was of getting robbed except if I had been robbed they would have taken the gun and I would have got fired for that too.

The second incident I was at a substation late one night doing a check. The substation and its parking lot were private property and they were posted "No Trespassing".

As I was getting in my car to leave a tweaker wearing war paint and a bird mask came through the parking lot on his bicycle.

At the far end of the parking lot was a 20 ft drop. So he wasn't passing through. My car was lit from the street lights and he wasn't 3 ft away from it he could not possibly have not known I was there.

I got out of the car and shined my flashlight at him. I want to clarify that it was a handheld flashlight not a WML.

He went absolutely ballistic. He threw down the bike he started screaming at me and he pulled up his shirt and he reached into his waistband and started screaming something about "Do you want to see mine? Do you want to see mine?"

Any reasonable person would have thought he was reaching for a weapon. I had my hand on my gun. I think I actually drew it. And the whole time I'm thinking that if he doesn't come out of that waistband with a gun in his hand I'm screwed. If he does come out of his waistband with a gun in his hand and I shoot him I'm still screwed.

So the main point that I'm trying to make Is both of those times I was constrained by legal considerations that the other guy didn't have.

If I shoot a bad guy in self-defense even if I am 100% justified, life as I know it is over. If the bad guy shoots me, it's just another in a long list of charges If he's even caught.

That is something that I believe most of us are going to have to overcome before we ever have to defend ourselves with a firearm.

Last story, I caught a guy trespassing on utilities private property one morning.

I'm not going to go through the whole story but he threatened to kill me with an ax. While he was looking through his shopping cart to find his ax I got on the radio and I called for police assistance and backup.

I also pulled out my OC spray with my other hand and when he turned around from his shopping cart with his ax I was standing there shaking up my OC spray and telling him to bring it.

He dropped the ax like it was on fire. it was the best result I've ever gotten drawing a "weapon" at work.

Criminals, with some justification, don't believe that you'll shoot them.

They absolutely believe that you'll spray them.
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I have carried concealed (licensed) since 1975. I also carry military grade OC (pepper) spray. I tell all my friends that if ever I am approached by somebody looking to harm me, the first thing I'm gonna do is pepper spray the livin' crap outta them. If they continue to advance to attack me, then I will shoot to stop the attack. A lawyer friend of mine told me that the "your honor, he attacked, I sprayed him down with pepper spray and he still continued the attack, so I had no alternative but to shoot him to stop his attack" defense is 99.9% faultless.
 
Mr. Untactical said:
I like this. I don't get involved in physical altercations anymore (and rarely did when I was fit). But when I did, I absolutely went to 10 immediately. I was never a good "fighter" so my only chance was to overcome my opponent quickly. It also brings to mind advice I've heard recently, "Don't go anywhere with a gun that you wouldn't go without one." In other words, I go out of my way to stay out of sketchy areas, regardless of whether I'm carrying or not (and I usually am). But the OP's quote from the Shootist resonates with me. I thought long and hard about this before beginning my concealed carry life. Honestly, I still don't know how I will react if I am ever compelled to draw my firearm in self defense. I hope that 1) It's the very last resort and 2) I don't get mired in philosophical musings that could mean the difference between losing my life or going home to my wife (or successfully defending if she's with me).
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I'm also an old Veteran. I have carried concealed since 1975. I purposely do NOT go where I might be a victim of violence, but, if I am ever attacked, or have to defend my wife or other family member, things will get very ugly, very messy very quickly. Like the saying going around these days: "If you have to fight, fight like you are the third monkey on the ramp to Noah's Ark, and it is starting to rain."
 
bmarr said:
It’s not limited to Soros prosecutors. If some young punk threatens to beat you up and comes at you, if he is unarmed and you shoot him, many prosecutors will ask why you escalated a fist fight into a gun fight. You really are risking your liberty if you shoot anyone who is unarmed. Your age and size, the assailants age and size, past criminal record, etc. will all come into play.
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In addition to my EDC, I carry a walking stick/cane and pepper spray. Boom-boom is always a LAST resort.
 
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