14 confirmed dead in Texas school shooting

[Blackmesa96]

When the Bill of Rights was written every weapon was a single shot, it's time to update that amendment to reflect certain conditions for buying a weapon and the fact that a single gun is capable of mass destruction.

I take solace in knowing the soul of the shooter is now being tortured in Hell for killing all those innocents. It's time for a national Red Flag law. It's time for requiring safety and training courses before anyone can buy a gun. It's time for a law prohibiting anyone under the age of 21 to buy a gun and it's time to ban all video games that promote violence.

So I gather you would support restrictions on other protected rights as well? When the Constitution was written, mass communication didn't exist as it does today. Using that logic, we should restructure the first amendment to limit the dissemination of information to printed matter only. After all, "dangerous speech" poses a far greater threat to society in general than the actions of a single individual.

As for a national "red flag" law, how would that be structured in such a way to insure due process (another Constitutional protection). Does your neighbor have the right to determine you dangerous? An ex? Someone who doesn't agree with your political views? A person who has been ruled mentally incompetent already is prohibited from owning a gun. The NICS is supposed to catch that. If you can guarantee that it's possible to predict criminal behavior with 100% accuracy, I will listen to that argument.

How would safety and training courses prevented this tragedy? Do you really think this kid didn't understand that guns can be lethal and must be handled properly?

As for age restrictions, they already exist for handguns. Still, people under 21 get them--illegally I might add. Doesn't seem to deter some...

Banning video games is a real knee-jerk answer. They are a symptom of a far greater problem in our society, not a cause of those problems. Again, how would this have prevented this tragedy? Can you even cite a single case where a video game led to mass murder?

My friend, you have fallen victim to the fraudulent logic of the left. We need to do SOMETHING and we need to do it NOW!!! If it saves even one life, it's worth it! We need to end all gun violence and we need to do whatever the government and their "experts" say we should do!

I don't wish to ignore the hurt and pain the families of the victims are experiencing. I can't begin to imagine how it must be for them. Nevertheless,  none of the things you propose will bring their loved ones back. Furthermore, nothing you advocate for can guarantee another tragedy won't happen. Even if you could eliminate all guns from society, criminals with evil intent will devise plans to commit their crimes. Remember what a bunch of terrorists armed with box cutters did on 9/11?

 

[Blackmesa96]

this is what the killers mother is quoted as saying...
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The mother of the 18-year-old gunman accused of killing 21 at an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas, this week told ABC News in an interview that her son was "not a monster," but that he could "be aggressive."

"I had an uneasy feeling sometimes, like 'what are you up to?" Adriana Reyes told ABC News' Chief National Correspondent Matt Gutman in an interview at her home. "He can be aggressive... If he really got mad."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

somehow to me, she still should have "seen" there may have been a problem....

MSN

Isn't that the too frequent response? I don't recall any time where the family of the criminal said they thought he/she was bad. In cases like this, I expect this is a mechanism to absolve their conscience and protect themselves from legal liability.

 

[Bassbob]

When the Bill of Rights was written every weapon was a single shot, it's time to update that amendment to reflect certain conditions for buying a weapon and the fact that a single gun is capable of mass destruction.

I take solace in knowing the soul of the shooter is now being tortured in Hell for killing all those innocents. It's time for a national Red Flag law. It's time for requiring safety and training courses before anyone can buy a gun. It's time for a law prohibiting anyone under the age of 21 to buy a gun and it's time to ban all video games that promote violence.

All feel good BS that wouldn’t do a damn thing to stop what happened in any of these mass shootings.

More gun owners like you and we’ll be restricted to double barrel shotguns in 10 years.

 

[DakotaIrish]

There are a number of measures we can take to reduce the likelihood of these events. If the logic to do nothing is that you can't prevent everything, then why do we have any laws? It may not be possible to prevent those who are truly committed to do harm, but we can make it a heck of a lot harder to do so. Enforcement of existing laws, hardening of soft targets, and yes, tightening the controls of who can purchase and what is acceptable is a part of that conversation.

 

[Old_Me]

So I gather you would support restrictions on other protected rights as well? When the Constitution was written, mass communication didn't exist as it does today. Using that logic, we should restructure the first amendment to limit the dissemination of information to printed matter only. After all, "dangerous speech" poses a far greater threat to society in general than the actions of a single individual.


Banning video games is a real knee-jerk answer. They are a symptom of a far greater problem in our society, not a cause of those problems. Again, how would this have prevented this tragedy? Can you even cite a single case where a video game led to mass murder?

if i recall, there used to be games that actually made it look like you could learn to fly a plane. (MS had one, one of my kids had it, i know, i bought it for him, when he was younger)

but after 9-11, if i recall, that game was no longer available.??

so banning video games "could happen"

 

[Old_Me]

Isn't that the too frequent response? I don't recall any time where the family of the criminal said they thought he/she was bad. In cases like this, I expect this is a mechanism to absolve their conscience and protect themselves from legal liability.

yeah, "my kid is/was a good kind, he never does nuffin wrong".....

 

[Oaktree45]

All feel good BS that wouldn’t do a damn thing to stop what happened in any of these mass shootings.

More gun owners like you and we’ll be restricted to double barrel shotguns in 10 years.

That of course is your opinion. Like so many gun owners you jump to an exaggeration. I didn’t say anything about restricting the types of guns that could be purchased, I want to put restrictions on who and when someone can buy a firearm. You can’t buy alcohol in Texas until you’re 21 years old but it’s OK for an 18 year old to buy an AR-15 with a 30 round magazine.

Sorry, but gun owners like you seem to have the attitude that I don’t care how many children have to be killed in the future, I won’t support any new gun laws.

If a Red Flag law, age restriction, training requirement, and background check saved one child’s life then the changes were worth it.

 

[Recusant]

What interests me is that this kid used an AR from Daniel Defense. The last time I looked their ARs were running about 2 grand, and word is he may have had 2 of them. I question how an 18-year-old could afford those unless he had a job, which I haven't heard mentioned. I doubt that Daniel Defense sells direct, so where did he legally get them? I guess the answers will come in time and until then it's just speculation. Now, Red Flag laws confuse me. A person is deemed a threat and LE comes to his or her house and takes what guns they can find and then leave this "loose cannon" free in society to plot his or her next move. This makes no sense to me as well as to many in LE. If a judge is going to send LE out, instead of seizing guns they should seize the person in question under a detention order. Hold the person long enough to do a psych eval, and a threat assessment, and a court hearing before a judge who decides the next course of action. Additionally, those make false accusations should be charged criminally and not shielded from a civil suit. What other Constitutional rights can be taken away on a hunch? We have the Universal Background check in Virginia and for me it's not really a hassle, but be aware, it is the first step towards universal gun registration. Moving the age to 21 or even as much as 25 to purchase a firearm might work as long those who are caught with a gun out in public get mandatory jail time and are barred from gun ownership forever.

 

[Bassbob]

That of course is your opinion. Like so many gun owners you jump to an exaggeration. I didn’t say anything about restricting the types of guns that could be purchased, I want to put restrictions on who and when someone can buy a firearm. You can’t buy alcohol in Texas until you’re 21 years old but it’s OK for an 18 year old to buy an AR-15 with a 30 round magazine.

Sorry, but gun owners like you seem to have the attitude that I don’t care how many children have to be killed in the future, I won’t support any new gun laws.

If a Red Flag law, age restriction, training requirement, and background check saved one child’s life then the changes were worth it.

So we should have training requirements on the 1st amendment too then. And probably we should let the ATF set the criteria for that training. If it saves one kids life it’s worth it right. And I guess we ought to raise the age to 21 to join the military. I mean clearly the difference between an 18 year old and a 21 year old is significant.

None of this crap would have stopped any of those school shootings.

What’s your plan for the 62 kids that have been murdered in north St. Louis so far this year ?

Texting and driving kills lots of kids. We should raise the age to 21 before you can buy a cell phone.

When we get red flag laws I hope your neighbor doesn’t get pissed because your dog crapped in his yard and call the cops and tell them you’re dangerous and armed.

Someone’s ridiculous here and it isn’t me.

 

[DakotaIrish]

So we should have training requirements on the 1st amendment too then. And probably we should let the ATF set the criteria for that training. If it saves one kids life it’s worth it right. And I guess we ought to raise the age to 21 to join the military. I mean clearly the difference between an 18 year old and a 21 year old is significant.

None of this crap would have stopped any of those school shootings.

What’s your plan for the 62 kids that have been murdered in north St. Louis so far this year ?

Texting and driving kills lots of kids. We should raise the age to 21 before you can buy a cell phone.

When we get red flag laws I hope your neighbor doesn’t get pissed because your dog crapped in his yard and call the cops and tell them you’re dangerous and armed.

Someone’s ridiculous here and it isn’t me.

Since you do such a good job of knocking down others, why don't you suggest what might work? You seem to believe you are quite the expert.

 

[10mmLife]

What interests me is that this kid used an AR from Daniel Defense. The last time I looked their ARs were running about 2 grand, and word is he may have had 2 of them. I question how an 18-year-old could afford those unless he had a job, which I haven't heard mentioned. I doubt that Daniel Defense sells direct, so where did he legally get them? I guess the answers will come in time and until then it's just speculation. Now, Red Flag laws confuse me. A person is deemed a threat and LE comes to his or her house and takes what guns they can find and then leave this "loose cannon" free in society to plot his or her next move. This makes no sense to me as well as to many in LE. If a judge is going to send LE out, instead of seizing guns they should seize the person in question under a detention order. Hold the person long enough to do a psych eval, and a threat assessment, and a court hearing before a judge who decides the next course of action. Additionally, those make false accusations should be charged criminally and not shielded from a civil suit. What other Constitutional rights can be taken away on a hunch? We have the Universal Background check in Virginia and for me it's not really a hassle, but be aware, it is the first step towards universal gun registration. Moving the age to 21 or even as much as 25 to purchase a firearm might work as long those who are caught with a gun out in public get mandatory jail time and are barred from gun ownership forever.

The kid was reported to work a Wendy's and the fact he lived at the grandparents house he most likely didn't pay any rent.

As for Daniel Defense they do sell their firearms direct, though like all firearms bought online they need to be sent to an FFL for the transfer.

I'm all for mandatory long sentences for violent criminals in possession of a firearm or any dangerous weapon including knives.

 

[Old_Me]

What interests me is that this kid used an AR from Daniel Defense. The last time I looked their ARs were running about 2 grand, and word is he may have had 2 of them. I question how an 18-year-old could afford those unless he had a job, which I haven't heard mentioned. I doubt that Daniel Defense sells direct, so where did he legally get them? I guess the answers will come in time and until then it's just speculation. Now, Red Flag laws confuse me. A person is deemed a threat and LE comes to his or her house and takes what guns they can find and then leave this "loose cannon" free in society to plot his or her next move. This makes no sense to me as well as to many in LE. If a judge is going to send LE out, instead of seizing guns they should seize the person in question under a detention order. Hold the person long enough to do a psych eval, and a threat assessment, and a court hearing before a judge who decides the next course of action. Additionally, those make false accusations should be charged criminally and not shielded from a civil suit. What other Constitutional rights can be taken away on a hunch? We have the Universal Background check in Virginia and for me it's not really a hassle, but be aware, it is the first step towards universal gun registration. Moving the age to 21 or even as much as 25 to purchase a firearm might work as long those who are caught with a gun out in public get mandatory jail time and are barred from gun ownership forever.

i know nothing about prices or brands of AR's, but at least $2,000 EACH..???

speculation for me arises as to how he had that much money, but i am suspicious where many squirrels get their nuts from...

as for the red flag stuff, i dunno a good enough response on how, what, when and where it should be done, but i do a agree that any false accusations, or a "lover scorned" to "get even" thing, ought to be dealt with to, and very severely.

we have back ground checks here as well both the NCIC, and the local police dept where the buyer lives. this is why we still have that 8 day wait period. unless one has a CCW, then 1 call to NCIC, pay for your gun, and you go home with it, with in minutes.

i see nothing wrong with making sure a person does not escape the checks of who should not have a gun in the first place...

age to buy ANY gun..??

well....you have to be (in most instances) at least 26 years old, to rent a vehicle, with a valid credit card ( i worked at a rental company, that was the rule then, might still be so now)...

you must be over the age of 21...to buy smokes,

in my state, you must be 21 to legally drink.

should the age to buy ANY gun be raised to at least 21....maybe 25..???

i'll leave that to the elected officials in all the states. (and at my age, it wouldn't be a problem for me).

the argument or debate on, "well, we can send them off to war at 18 with a gun"......

hold on right there....they are not just given a gun, they get training, and we cannot ever relate private/public life to that of the armed services...

so what are the solutions, cuz all i ever hear on the tv news, radio talk shows, message boards is, what should have been done.

 

[Bassbob]

Since you do such a good job of knocking down others, why don't you suggest what might work? You seem to believe you are quite the expert.

They might have tried locking the doors.

Maybe arm some teachers. Both of those things have a 1000% better likelihood of stopping that school shooting than anything you or Oaktree have suggested. You guys sound like Chris Murphy or any MSM news actor. You aren't defending the constitution, you are letting emotions cloud your logic. Clearly.

 

[Blackmesa96]

That of course is your opinion. Like so many gun owners you jump to an exaggeration. I didn’t say anything about restricting the types of guns that could be purchased, I want to put restrictions on who and when someone can buy a firearm. You can’t buy alcohol in Texas until you’re 21 years old but it’s OK for an 18 year old to buy an AR-15 with a 30 round magazine.

Sorry, but gun owners like you seem to have the attitude that I don’t care how many children have to be killed in the future, I won’t support any new gun laws.

If a Red Flag law, age restriction, training requirement, and background check saved one child’s life then the changes were worth it.

Your reference in your original post did mention single shot firearms, and when reading it sure appeared that you do favor restrictions on the type of guns a person can own.

If it saves one child's life... How many things can we use that ill conceived logic to prevent? If closing McDonald's could save one child's life... How about not allowing anyone under 18 to ride in a motor vehicle? Or if prohibiting kids from riding bikes could save one life. The list is endless.

The point isn't that people don't care about kids. The point is that too many people are willing to accept this perverted logic in one area without realizing that it can be applied to other activities and actions as well.

You haven't offered anything new or unique. We have heard how new law is the magical key to prevent tragedy before, and it didn't do a thing except restrict the law abiding. Red flag laws deny due process. Even if there were severe penalties for false reports, how many people have the resources for a prolonged court fight? Worse yet, what happens when your property is destroyed and the person you could sue for damages hasn't any resources for repayment?

You still need to give us a logical answer as to how mandatory training would have prevented this. Furthermore, you fail to acknowledge that this person passed a background check. Proof that background checks can't predict further behavior.

You have done an excellent job of regurgitating the talking points of the leftists. Until you can offer a suggestion which could prevent this type of tragedy, I will continue to oppose more gun laws. I will, however, ask why those who want more laws don't protest loudly about enforcing the laws already on the books. My suspicion remains; it's not about guns, it's about control.

 

[somorris]

I oppose more gun laws to try to stop school shootings, church shootings, mall shootings, gang shootings or any other type of shooting. I oppose mandatory training too. More gun laws and requiring training are in opposition to our Constitution. We keep chipping away at the Constitution, and soon (probably already) citizens of this country have no Constitutional rights. Our courts are so political now that relying on the courts to stop unconstitutional laws is almost a farce.

I feel really sorry for the teachers that were killed because they had to face an armed attacker with a pencil. Lock the doors and put security in every school. I feel sorry for the parents of the children killed who's children are no longer here and were killed because of stupid, arguing politicians who were sitting safely in their compounds and protected by armed security. Misinformed people who think we can stop this kind of craziness with more laws just need to stop and think instead of following the party line.

 

[Bassbob]

I oppose more gun laws to try to stop school shootings, church shootings, mall shootings, gang shootings or any other type of shooting. I oppose mandatory training too. More gun laws and requiring training are in opposition to our Constitution. We keep chipping away at the Constitution, and soon (probably already) citizens of this country have no Constitutional rights. Our courts are so political now that relying on the courts to stop unconstitutional laws is almost a farce.

I feel really sorry for the teachers that were killed because they had to face an armed attacker with a pencil. Lock the doors and put security in every school. I feel sorry for the parents of the children killed who's children are no longer here and were killed because of stupid, arguing politicians who were sitting safely in their compounds and protected by armed security. Misinformed people who think we can stop this kind of craziness with more laws just need to stop and think instead of following the party line.

It's funny how people like Beto and Dick Durbin are screaming about the GOP and the NRA having blood on their hands when they have failed miserably at even attempting to enact meaningful legislation that could do something to keep these things from happening for decades now. They let 1000s of murderers out of jail because of a pandemic and these are the people we are supposed to look to to keep our kids safe? What a joke.

Every one of these "Common sense" "Gun safety" laws they want to enact will do absolutely nothing. Not one suggestion here outside of locking the doors and having armed good guys in the building would have stopped this monster from killing those kids. He shot his grannie, does anyone really think he wouldn't have just done what the Sandy Hook monster did had he been denied his 2A right to buy a rifle? This kid was bullied in high school for being poor, yet he somehow got the scratch for 5 grand worth of rifles on his 18th birthday ?


I ain't pointing fingers, but I am disappointed in some of you guys.

 

[Old_Me]

this just gets worse...

husband of dead teacher, dies himself......broken heart maybe..???

they were high school sweethearts, and married for like 24 years......

MSN

www.msn.com

RIP you poor soul.

 

[Oaktree45]

So it seems most think my suggestions are a waste of time, so let's hear what your suggestions are for a cure to mass shootings.

Apparently the only solution is for everyone to carry an AR-15 and forget about living in a civilized society.

 

[Jfal]

Openly expressing support for more gun laws on a gun forum...on a thread dedicated to supporting and maintaining the 2nd amendment....to quote Dragnet, "You got balls the size of church bells, Reverend!".

 

[Blackmesa96]

So it seems most think my suggestions are a waste of time, so let's hear what your suggestions are for a cure to mass shootings.

Apparently the only solution is for everyone to carry an AR-15 and forget about living in a civilized society.

No, your suggestions are regurgitated liberal drivel. None of them will do anything to prevent this sort of tragedy in the future. The only thing you have suggested that could remotely stand a chance of doing so would be "red flag" laws. Unfortunately, you ignore the arguments regarding constitutionality and go to the pandering "if it saves one life" position. Furthermore, you seem to be willing to sacrifice the rights of the 330 million who aren't mass murderers in the hope of preventing a potential crime.

You have seen the suggestions. Arm teachers. Eliminate "gun free" zones. Enhanced security at vulnerable places such as schools. Stringently enforce the laws we already have.

You are certainly have the right to your opinion. In typical liberal fashion, you also appear to believe that your opinion is the only one which is right. You tell us that the Constitution should be interpreted in the context of the time it was written when it comes to a right you appear to believe is conditional, but not so for those you want to protect for yourself.

I will be willing to wager that you will conviently ignore the honest suggestions presented on this forum by contributors because they don't do something. Your position seems to be that we must react emotionally to be taken seriously, which isn't a sign of maturity. Emotional reaction is also called panic. Panicked people don't make rational decisions.