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Ayoob: Is the .45 Obsolete?

That grouping was pretty tight on Ayoob's target! I'd sure like to shoot that accurate with 60 rounds. I wonder how far he was from the target.
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Recusant said:
I think that C. Sumpin hits at the central issue here. People have to decide which pistol and which round suits their needs. I carry my revolver loaded with .38 +P when I walk my dog at night; however, I'll carry the Glock 20 when I feel the need to be loaded for bear even if I'm going to the city. Having only 1 gun, regardless of caliber, if that's all you can afford and you feel confident that it will do the job, is better than no gun at all should a situation arise. But having the right gun, caliber, and number of rounds for any given situation is a toss of the dice. There are lots of factors to consider that's probably the reason that a golfer carries more than one type of club in his bag.
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....and more than one ball? :)
 
EconMaestro said:
Look, this is my last post about this silly pissing match. Your equation that F=ma^2 is just wrong. Simple as that. The correct equation is F=ma. I’ve studied plenty of physics and hold a masters in ME. NO WHERE EVER HAS YOUR INCORRECT EQUATION BEEN USED. End of the saga. You are wrong and you need to admit when you are wrong. Continue to argue about a set equation since calculus was discovered—not invented—but discovered, makes you look foolish.
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Well, wherever you got your degree from, you should ask for a refund.

Lets look at the formula for kinetic energy then.

KE = 1/2mv^2

Again, a logarithmic relationship between mass and speed.
 
iklwa said:
I have a few of Ayoub's books. I like the guy but the topic of dead 45's has been ongoing since the 70's.
If they were all that crappy, the Marines would not be manufacturing their own proprietary 1911s and there would not be twelve companies producing 1911s and scores producing their parts for the 1911.
That's just the folks building the 1911 and variants!
When I bought my first 1911 in 1980, there was only one company producing them in the USA...Colts. Auto Ordinance was the second company to follow suit.

Question: Why has the average fired round count continually increased in LEO shootings over the past forty years?
Answer: Yep, the 9x19 may be easier to shoot, cheaper to produce and a shooter can carry more ammo, but ya have to pump a bunch of them out there to get the same job done.

Why do we have to learn the same lessons about firearms calibers over and over?
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Nothing wrong with a 1911 45. I have a 1942 Remington Rand. According to the serial number it was one of the first thousand to come out after John Browning retooled Remington Rand production lines. After the patent went out I'll 1911's everybody started building them. If these guns are so outdated why is most every gun manufacturer building a version.

As far as the price of ammo and the availability of ammo that's poor planning on shooters. It will cost you between 150 a $200 to purchase a single stage press with 45 dies. I've been reloading ammunition since the early 80s. When they first shortage came up the only shortage I had was 22 long rifle. Because I had a stock of bullets powder and primer. Invest a little money into reloading and reloading supplies load for everyday usage. And you'll never be out of ammo. If you don't want to load for everyday use it's not necessary. When the supply is there buy Factory ammo oh, if you don't mind about a 30% increase of your ammo cost.

Use your reloading supplies as an emergency source. When ammunition he's unavailable, set up your press and start manufacturing your own for your own emergency use. Like I said I've never been without ammunition since the first shortage. Even though there's a shortage I can reload for any gun I have. If I only use the ammunition when needed I would have enough ammunition for life right now.

I'm sure most other people on this site reload already. But I'm sure there's some new shooters that don't and haven't thought about it. I have several people right now that want me to show them the proper way to reload ammunition.
 
Roy V said:
Nothing wrong with a 1911 45. I have a 1942 Remington Rand. According to the serial number it was one of the first thousand to come out after John Browning retooled Remington Rand production lines. After the patent went out I'll 1911's everybody started building them. If these guns are so outdated why is most every gun manufacturer building a version.

As far as the price of ammo and the availability of ammo that's poor planning on shooters. It will cost you between 150 a $200 to purchase a single stage press with 45 dies. I've been reloading ammunition since the early 80s. When they first shortage came up the only shortage I had was 22 long rifle. Because I had a stock of bullets powder and primer. Invest a little money into reloading and reloading supplies load for everyday usage. And you'll never be out of ammo. If you don't want to load for everyday use it's not necessary. When the supply is there buy Factory ammo oh, if you don't mind about a 30% increase of your ammo cost.

Use your reloading supplies as an emergency source. When ammunition he's unavailable, set up your press and start manufacturing your own for your own emergency use. Like I said I've never been without ammunition since the first shortage. Even though there's a shortage I can reload for any gun I have. If I only use the ammunition when needed I would have enough ammunition for life right now.

I'm sure most other people on this site reload already. But I'm sure there's some new shooters that don't and haven't thought about it. I have several people right now that want me to show them the proper way to reload ammunition.
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I don’t think JMB retooled R-R’s production lines in the ‘40’s, as he died in 1926.
 
Lordhuck said:
45 is obsolete unless you plan to suppress it. 45 shines while suppressed. Unsuppressed I believe 10 mm is the ballistically superior choice to 45 in all situations.
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Then it is obsolete to you. Nor is there any argument offered to the (perhaps) superior 10mm. But to the millions who own and prefer the big hole caliber, are they going to suppress it, give it away, trade it in and budget up to a 10, retool their reloading setups to 10.........what?

.45 may become obsolete, but not in several more lifetimes.
 
Lordhuck said:
45 is obsolete unless you plan to suppress it. 45 shines while suppressed. Unsuppressed I believe 10 mm is the ballistically superior choice to 45 in all situations.
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Yes, the 10 IS ballisticaly superior, however, I know the average Joe or Jane will use the 45 more effectively due to less recoil. Perhaps the recoil can be mitigated with the use of porting but then we get back to cost of ammo and availability. On human targets, the 10's advantage is minimal.
The only real advantage seen for the 10 is a flatter trajectory at extended range but then, most self defense scenarios are not at long range.
Its much the same as the comparison between the 44 Special and Magnum. The 44 Magnum is ballisticaly superior; however, the Special is much easier to control in the same platform.
Harry Callahan was right.
In bear country, the story changes dramatically.
 
Was looking at some 1911's earlier today. All this .45 ACP talk is gonna make me buy one.
I can't afford to start searching for and stockpiling another caliber guys. I'm blaming all of you pre-emptively.

Now that we got that cleared up, I held a Kimber lightweight and that was nice, but I like the Ronin a bit more in terms of aesthetics and how it felt in my hand, I think I liked it being a bit heavier. Any others I should be looking at to further make my decision difficult? 😘
 
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