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Critical Defense or Federal HST?

Mr.W.

Mr.W.

Professional
Founding Member
Greetings. My EDC pistol is an XD S mod 1. I've always used Hornady, but am interested in trying the HST. Comments and/or suggestions? Good shooting to all!
 
I've always ran Hornady Critical Defense in both my CCWs (XDS MOD 2 45 and XD 45c), however recently, I have switched to SIG V- Crown. Sig ammo is usually relatively cheaper, but more consistent expansion and designed for shorter barrel firearms.
Of course, HSTs have a great reputation, SIG V-Crown is worth a look as well.
 
Hoov608 said:
I've always ran Hornady Critical Defense in both my CCWs (XDS MOD 2 45 and XD 45c), however recently, I have switched to SIG V- Crown. Sig ammo is usually relatively cheaper, but more consistent expansion and designed for shorter barrel firearms.
Of course, HSTs have a great reputation, SIG V-Crown is worth a look as well.
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Good stuff, thank you.
 
I mostly stick with Hornady bullets in all my guns. I might try some SIG ammo in the future. Who knows I might change.
 
I keep my 9mm and both 45's loaded with Winchester PDX1 Defender ammo, 147 gr for the 9 and 230 gr for both 45's (my EDC is an XDE-45 and I have an HK 45T), this ammo is essentially Black Talons, but without the black coating, cheaper to buy and easier to find.
 
Mr.W. said:
Greetings. My EDC pistol is an XD S mod 1. I've always used Hornady, but am interested in trying the HST. Comments and/or suggestions? Good shooting to all!
Click to expand...
Why not load out both. I use a mix of 9mm. Round in chamber is 147gr HST, next round in mag is 115gr critical defense. I also use some 124gr HST +P in that mix sometimes
 
For years I've had Hornady critical defense, which I've read the FBI had recently switched to. I've recently switched to Blackhills honeybadger in all my EDC calibers. I find them more accurate and less recoil. Research I've read (although everyone says theirs is better..lol) says cavity destruction is awesome.
 
HST is a fantastic round in just about all calibers. I'm a huge fan of the 230 gr +P flavor myself.

It's also extremely affordable, Target Sports usually has it for 50% off in the hard to find 50 round boxes. In fact they just started a new sale today.

9MM is $20 per 50

.45 is $22 per 50
 
Hellcat1 said:
For years I've had Hornady critical defense, which I've read the FBI had recently switched to. I've recently switched to Blackhills honeybadger in all my EDC calibers. I find them more accurate and less recoil. Research I've read (although everyone says theirs is better..lol) says cavity destruction is awesome.
Click to expand...
I was thinking of trying the Honeybadger as well. I currently use Hornady Critical Duty or Critical Defense. I saw some videos on GunTalk on how it's made and they tested shooting a 44 mag round through a 2x4 and gelatin simulating a deer's bone and flesh. It went through the 2x4 and 12" of gelatin, and made a substaintial wound channel. When dug out it appeared it wasn't deformed at all.
 
Big45XD said:
Please educate me with you degree from YouTube university
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Not trying to be mean or pick a fight! I was genuinely curious as to rather or not you were making a joke. Assuming you're being serious and not just trying to "troll" folks like myself, my objections to the practice you were endorsing are as follows:

1. Point of Impact Shift: Different barrels and rifling patterns perform better with different bullet types, powders and overall lengths. While it might be a small difference going from 115 grain in one hollow point design with one powder to another, you are tolerance stacking by running multiple brands, bullet weights and configurations. This is maximizing your group spread from a mechanical accuracy point of view. That is irrespective of the shooter. You can lock the gun in a rest and see this effect.

Generally speaking, and this is very broad and weapon/shooter dependent, less recoil lowers POI, more recoil raises POI, within a given given bullet weight. Since bullet weight impacts recoil and slide energy, changing bullet weights from shot to shot exacerbates the effect. POI shift is also velocity dependent, so adding different burn rates of various powders with different bullet weights means you will be as inaccurate as mechanically possible in a given firearm.

2. Training: Irrespective of accuracy, changing the bullet weights and powders inside the magazine will result in every shot feeling different from the last. Consistent feedback is an important part of the muscle memory utilized in recoil control and learning how to drive a gun quickly from shot to shot and target to target. If your recoil impulse changes dramatically from shot to shot, you are making it more difficult to bring the gun back on target as quickly as possible in a given string. Its very difficult to find a shooting rhythm and ride the recoil if the recoil of the gun changes every shot.

3. Malfunction Inducement: By running your guns slide at different speeds and with different bullet shapes and different OAL in bullets, you are maximizing the situation where even a reliable handgun can choke up in feeding. Remember the shooter will also be giving different feedback to the gun with your grip via each shots recoil being different.

4. Gun Wu Wu: This last one is pretty unscientific, but I think most people who have shot one gun a lot will know where I am coming from. When you get used to one load and one firearm, you can "listen to the gun talk" during strings of fire. You don't need to see that you have fired your last shot, you feel the slide lock open. You know its getting time to clean it when the gun "tells" you its getting crunchy. You know immediately if you had a squib or some other issue because that shot felt different that the thousand or so before it. I know not everyone carries the same gun on duty day in and day out, or shoots tens of thousands of rounds a year in competition, but I don't know why you would rob yourself of the change to learn your guns "feel" by making it feel different every shot.
 
Cudahemi8 said:
I mostly stick with Hornady bullets in all my guns. I might try some SIG ammo in the future. Who knows I might change.
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For the last few months I’ve used Hornady and some HST. Tried some Sig ammo and liked it just as much as the Hornady. Very good prices as well.
 
Definitely Federal HST.
I have shot a deer before (sick and dying) with Hornady critical defense and it failed to expand.
 
Epeeist said:
Not trying to be mean or pick a fight! I was genuinely curious as to rather or not you were making a joke. Assuming you're being serious and not just trying to "troll" folks like myself, my objections to the practice you were endorsing are as follows:

1. Point of Impact Shift: Different barrels and rifling patterns perform better with different bullet types, powders and overall lengths. While it might be a small difference going from 115 grain in one hollow point design with one powder to another, you are tolerance stacking by running multiple brands, bullet weights and configurations. This is maximizing your group spread from a mechanical accuracy point of view. That is irrespective of the shooter. You can lock the gun in a rest and see this effect.

Generally speaking, and this is very broad and weapon/shooter dependent, less recoil lowers POI, more recoil raises POI, within a given given bullet weight. Since bullet weight impacts recoil and slide energy, changing bullet weights from shot to shot exacerbates the effect. POI shift is also velocity dependent, so adding different burn rates of various powders with different bullet weights means you will be as inaccurate as mechanically possible in a given firearm.

2. Training: Irrespective of accuracy, changing the bullet weights and powders inside the magazine will result in every shot feeling different from the last. Consistent feedback is an important part of the muscle memory utilized in recoil control and learning how to drive a gun quickly from shot to shot and target to target. If your recoil impulse changes dramatically from shot to shot, you are making it more difficult to bring the gun back on target as quickly as possible in a given string. Its very difficult to find a shooting rhythm and ride the recoil if the recoil of the gun changes every shot.

3. Malfunction Inducement: By running your guns slide at different speeds and with different bullet shapes and different OAL in bullets, you are maximizing the situation where even a reliable handgun can choke up in feeding. Remember the shooter will also be giving different feedback to the gun with your grip via each shots recoil being different.

4. Gun Wu Wu: This last one is pretty unscientific, but I think most people who have shot one gun a lot will know where I am coming from. When you get used to one load and one firearm, you can "listen to the gun talk" during strings of fire. You don't need to see that you have fired your last shot, you feel the slide lock open. You know its getting time to clean it when the gun "tells" you its getting crunchy. You know immediately if you had a squib or some other issue because that shot felt different that the thousand or so before it. I know not everyone carries the same gun on duty day in and day out, or shoots tens of thousands of rounds a year in competition, but I don't know why you would rob yourself of the change to learn your guns "feel" by making it feel different every shot.
Click to expand...
Epeeist said:
Not trying to be mean or pick a fight! I was genuinely curious as to rather or not you were making a joke. Assuming you're being serious and not just trying to "troll" folks like myself, my objections to the practice you were endorsing are as follows:

1. Point of Impact Shift: Different barrels and rifling patterns perform better with different bullet types, powders and overall lengths. While it might be a small difference going from 115 grain in one hollow point design with one powder to another, you are tolerance stacking by running multiple brands, bullet weights and configurations. This is maximizing your group spread from a mechanical accuracy point of view. That is irrespective of the shooter. You can lock the gun in a rest and see this effect.

Generally speaking, and this is very broad and weapon/shooter dependent, less recoil lowers POI, more recoil raises POI, within a given given bullet weight. Since bullet weight impacts recoil and slide energy, changing bullet weights from shot to shot exacerbates the effect. POI shift is also velocity dependent, so adding different burn rates of various powders with different bullet weights means you will be as inaccurate as mechanically possible in a given firearm.

2. Training: Irrespective of accuracy, changing the bullet weights and powders inside the magazine will result in every shot feeling different from the last. Consistent feedback is an important part of the muscle memory utilized in recoil control and learning how to drive a gun quickly from shot to shot and target to target. If your recoil impulse changes dramatically from shot to shot, you are making it more difficult to bring the gun back on target as quickly as possible in a given string. Its very difficult to find a shooting rhythm and ride the recoil if the recoil of the gun changes every shot.

3. Malfunction Inducement: By running your guns slide at different speeds and with different bullet shapes and different OAL in bullets, you are maximizing the situation where even a reliable handgun can choke up in feeding. Remember the shooter will also be giving different feedback to the gun with your grip via each shots recoil being different.

4. Gun Wu Wu: This last one is pretty unscientific, but I think most people who have shot one gun a lot will know where I am coming from. When you get used to one load and one firearm, you can "listen to the gun talk" during strings of fire. You don't need to see that you have fired your last shot, you feel the slide lock open. You know its getting time to clean it when the gun "tells" you its getting crunchy. You know immediately if you had a squib or some other issue because that shot felt different that the thousand or so before it. I know not everyone carries the same gun on duty day in and day out, or shoots tens of thousands of rounds a year in competition, but I don't know why you would rob yourself of the change to learn your guns "feel" by making it feel different every shot.
Click to expand...
 
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