Onewolf426
Professional
That was one of my favorite butchered quotes by Opus in Bloom County. Or was it Outland? It's been a while, but that particular quote stuck with me.
Manual Safety or Not: Too Dangerous To Carry?
- Thread starter Mike H.
- Start date
I registered just to comment on this terrible fudd article. 
Manual safeties can get you killed. I have seen numerous videos on YouTube of people getting killed in a robbery, when they forgot to switch their safety off. I have seen, daily, on the shooting range, people forgetting to switch their safeties off, and it taking 2, 3 seconds, or more, before their brain realizes what has occurred, and then they finally flick the safety off. Can people train to switch their safety off. Sure. They can. With repetitive motion, through thousands of repetitions. Or, they could just train properly on the latest plastic fantastic gun that lacks a safety.
Safeties are for untrained people.
If you are untrained, then buy a gun with a safety.
Manual safeties can get you killed. I have seen numerous videos on YouTube of people getting killed in a robbery, when they forgot to switch their safety off. I have seen, daily, on the shooting range, people forgetting to switch their safeties off, and it taking 2, 3 seconds, or more, before their brain realizes what has occurred, and then they finally flick the safety off. Can people train to switch their safety off. Sure. They can. With repetitive motion, through thousands of repetitions. Or, they could just train properly on the latest plastic fantastic gun that lacks a safety.
Safeties are for untrained people.
If you are untrained, then buy a gun with a safety.
HayesGreener
Ronin
Could you post links to those youtubes where people were killed in robberies for forgetting the safety? I can use that information in training but have not been able to find it. Thanks!
Annihilator
Emissary
Agree to disagree......nothing wrong with a manual safety....yes training is essential with both types....manual safety or no safety .......I registered just to comment on this terrible fudd article.
Manual safeties can get you killed. I have seen numerous videos on YouTube of people getting killed in a robbery, when they forgot to switch their safety off. I have seen, daily, on the shooting range, people forgetting to switch their safeties off, and it taking 2, 3 seconds, or more, before their brain realizes what has occurred, and then they finally flick the safety off. Can people train to switch their safety off. Sure. They can. With repetitive motion, through thousands of repetitions. Or, they could just train properly on the latest plastic fantastic gun that lacks a safety.
Safeties are for untrained people.
If you are untrained, then buy a gun with a safety.
HayesGreener
Ronin
Yeah. And those plastic guns will melt in your trunk in the summer.
Onewolf426
Professional
Silly Rabix, kicks are for Trids.I registered just to comment on this terrible fudd article.
Manual safeties can get you killed. I have seen numerous videos on YouTube of people getting killed in a robbery, when they forgot to switch their safety off. I have seen, daily, on the shooting range, people forgetting to switch their safeties off, and it taking 2, 3 seconds, or more, before their brain realizes what has occurred, and then they finally flick the safety off. Can people train to switch their safety off. Sure. They can. With repetitive motion, through thousands of repetitions. Or, they could just train properly on the latest plastic fantastic gun that lacks a safety.
Safeties are for untrained people.
If you are untrained, then buy a gun with a safety.
You meant to say manual safety in your last statement?I registered just to comment on this terrible fudd article.
Manual safeties can get you killed. I have seen numerous videos on YouTube of people getting killed in a robbery, when they forgot to switch their safety off. I have seen, daily, on the shooting range, people forgetting to switch their safeties off, and it taking 2, 3 seconds, or more, before their brain realizes what has occurred, and then they finally flick the safety off. Can people train to switch their safety off. Sure. They can. With repetitive motion, through thousands of repetitions. Or, they could just train properly on the latest plastic fantastic gun that lacks a safety.
Safeties are for untrained people.
If you are untrained, then buy a gun with a safety.
HansGruber
Ronin
I registered just to comment on this terrible fudd article.
Manual safeties can get you killed. I have seen numerous videos on YouTube of people getting killed in a robbery, when they forgot to switch their safety off. I have seen, daily, on the shooting range, people forgetting to switch their safeties off, and it taking 2, 3 seconds, or more, before their brain realizes what has occurred, and then they finally flick the safety off. Can people train to switch their safety off. Sure. They can. With repetitive motion, through thousands of repetitions. Or, they could just train properly on the latest plastic fantastic gun that lacks a safety.
Safeties are for untrained people.
If you are untrained, then buy a gun with a safety.
Ooh! We got us a real-time OPERATOR on our hands folks!
Annihilator
Emissary
HayesGreener
Ronin
Well, I like the audible drama of the "click" just before the "boom-boom" then "boom".
HayesGreener
Ronin
Daaa, what's up, Doc?
KillerFord1977
SAINT
If I am not mistaken, all the US Army P320’s (M17) came with manual safeties as well as the M18.I registered just to comment on this terrible fudd article.
Manual safeties can get you killed. I have seen numerous videos on YouTube of people getting killed in a robbery, when they forgot to switch their safety off. I have seen, daily, on the shooting range, people forgetting to switch their safeties off, and it taking 2, 3 seconds, or more, before their brain realizes what has occurred, and then they finally flick the safety off. Can people train to switch their safety off. Sure. They can. With repetitive motion, through thousands of repetitions. Or, they could just train properly on the latest plastic fantastic gun that lacks a safety.
Safeties are for untrained people.
If you are untrained, then buy a gun with a safety.
Hmmmm … untrained
HayesGreener
Ronin
True. But what do they know? (TIC)
HayesGreener
Ronin
Thinking maybe I will stop so as not to seem sarcastic.
KillerFord1977
SAINT
Oh look … manual safeties
Annihilator
Emissary
1) Safeties can get you killed
2) Safeties are failure points. You can accidentally activate a safety, when you don't want it. Or forget to turn it off, when you don't want it on.
3)There is video evidence, multiple cases, on the YouTubes, proving point 1 and 2 above
4) I would never carry a gun with a safety. I've carried guns for 20+ years. Newsflash! They are completely safe fully chambered, ready to go, in a proper holster. They will never go off. Train properly, and you'll find that safeties are failure points. I don't want failure points on my guns. I want the trigger to get pressed, and a bang to happen. Simple. No failure points.
5) Carrying Israeli method sucks too. If this is your method, again, get more training.
6) If you are uncomfortable carrying a fully loaded, chambered, plastic fantastic pistol like an XD, Glock, P365, etc, then you haven't trained enough.
You can have differing opinions on the topic. I too, have opinions on the topic. Mine is based on my world view, experiences, and level of training. You have differing opinions, and that's fine. Your opinions are based on what you know.
The 1911 (and other guns) has a safety. And some guys like to carry them. That's fine. The gun isn't for me. I've tried them and put $50,000 worth of ammo down range in them. I can operate them reasonably well and usually without issue. BUT. On a range, with paper targets, I do on occasion forget the safety. Id be terrified to forget the safety in a real world event when I only have micro seconds to respond. And its not just me. I spent 2-3 days a week on a gun range for years doing firearms training and I SAW with my own eyes, guys forget to flip that safety lever, 10, 20 times a day. When you spend that much time on a gun range watching folks, you begin to pick up patterns and observations.
I would never recommend a pistol with a safety, for self defense, for any of my students.
You may have a differing opinion, and that's fine.
The military requiring a safety on its 1911, Beretta 92FS, and now Sig P320, actually kind of proves my argument. The pistol , in the military, is a secondary weapon and training is severely lacking across all services. They have always required a safety for lowest common denominator level of training that they are able to provide.
The British army issues the Glock 17. The American army issues the P320 with safety. The AVERAGE British soldier is also far better trained on pistols, than their American counterpart. Why is the British army able to issue a Glock 17 without a safety, while the American top brass would be reluctant to do so? Navy Seals were (or are) issued Glock 19 pistols... and they obviously train on them (a lot). Its combat Tupperware. Its reliable. Its safe. Its holstered. It doesn't need a safety, in the hands of a trained soldier/operator.
2) Safeties are failure points. You can accidentally activate a safety, when you don't want it. Or forget to turn it off, when you don't want it on.
3)There is video evidence, multiple cases, on the YouTubes, proving point 1 and 2 above
4) I would never carry a gun with a safety. I've carried guns for 20+ years. Newsflash! They are completely safe fully chambered, ready to go, in a proper holster. They will never go off. Train properly, and you'll find that safeties are failure points. I don't want failure points on my guns. I want the trigger to get pressed, and a bang to happen. Simple. No failure points.
5) Carrying Israeli method sucks too. If this is your method, again, get more training.
6) If you are uncomfortable carrying a fully loaded, chambered, plastic fantastic pistol like an XD, Glock, P365, etc, then you haven't trained enough.
You can have differing opinions on the topic. I too, have opinions on the topic. Mine is based on my world view, experiences, and level of training. You have differing opinions, and that's fine. Your opinions are based on what you know.
The 1911 (and other guns) has a safety. And some guys like to carry them. That's fine. The gun isn't for me. I've tried them and put $50,000 worth of ammo down range in them. I can operate them reasonably well and usually without issue. BUT. On a range, with paper targets, I do on occasion forget the safety. Id be terrified to forget the safety in a real world event when I only have micro seconds to respond. And its not just me. I spent 2-3 days a week on a gun range for years doing firearms training and I SAW with my own eyes, guys forget to flip that safety lever, 10, 20 times a day. When you spend that much time on a gun range watching folks, you begin to pick up patterns and observations.
I would never recommend a pistol with a safety, for self defense, for any of my students.
You may have a differing opinion, and that's fine.
The military requiring a safety on its 1911, Beretta 92FS, and now Sig P320, actually kind of proves my argument. The pistol , in the military, is a secondary weapon and training is severely lacking across all services. They have always required a safety for lowest common denominator level of training that they are able to provide.
The British army issues the Glock 17. The American army issues the P320 with safety. The AVERAGE British soldier is also far better trained on pistols, than their American counterpart. Why is the British army able to issue a Glock 17 without a safety, while the American top brass would be reluctant to do so? Navy Seals were (or are) issued Glock 19 pistols... and they obviously train on them (a lot). Its combat Tupperware. Its reliable. Its safe. Its holstered. It doesn't need a safety, in the hands of a trained soldier/operator.
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Bassbob
Emissary
I don't think it's as much a difference of opinion as it is the way you're presenting it. You seem to be trying to "Inadvertently" inform everyone that you are highly trained. It's the internet dude, everyone is an operator. The fact is this forum is filled with military, ex military, LEO and retired LEO as well as a bunch of other guys who have a serious addiction to training. And I would venture to say the vast majority of us carry guns that do not have external safeties. We also don't go around telling people that do they aren't trained or calling them "Fudds". I am on no mission to convert people to my favorite personal situation. You do you. Being rude or arrogant or cocky isn't going to win you any friends.