reloading questions/advice if you would please?

[Old_Me]

Before you ignore lead, try the poly coated bullets. Supposedly no leading. I used to use moly coated bullets and they don't lead either, but those do leave a moly residue.

as of now, i haven't really found anything, or too much quantity. i was told by someone at the store, to buy small quantities, of say 200 or so. if i recall, the reasoning is/was, some bullets just don;t do well in some guns. for example, i'd not want semi-wad cutters. some of my 1911's shoot them, others do not.

i'd hate to forget which gun is finicky, and take that one to the range.

i only take 1 gun, no more than that now.

 

[youngolddude]

I agree with not purchasing bullets your guns don't like, but if a lead bullet worked, try the coated ones.

 

[Old_Me]

I agree with not purchasing bullets your guns don't like, but if a lead bullet worked, try the coated ones.

has anyone heard of, or bought these, from this company??

thanks in advance

 

[Old_Me]

ok, so i am trying to dial in the adjustments on the Dillon.

i tried to put together at least 4 cartridges

here is what i have for OAL

1) 1.163..with a diameter just below the crimp line of 0.379

2) 1.155..with a diameter just below the crimp line of 0.379

3) 1.158..with a diameter just below the crimp line of 0.380

4) 1.152..with a diameter just below the crimp line of 0.379

the bullets are Missouri Bullet co. lead, round nose

the diameter of those are .356


they all go into the Lyman test block, some fall out, some i have to tap to get them out...BUT, they all go in flush with the block, none sticking out.

the factory cartridge i took a measurement from, the bullet is FMJ @ .350 diameter. of course that one falls out of the plunk test block with ease.

measurements at about the middle of the case for the new S&B is .383

the reloaded case are at .385

i tried loading up my Girsan (Beretta 92 clone), and of course i had to use a wooden dowel the remove it.

now mind you, i am using Lee carbide dies, and the adjustments especially for the crimp die, i just really cannot dial that in any better, at least not right now.

the flare die, is giving me a flare, i think not a very big flare, just enough to hold the bullets.

the decapping/resizing die is adjusted, but i am not sure since it is a Dillon, if i got it set too deep?

some pics, not good ones, lousy camera.


from left to right...S&B factory, then reloads 1,2,3,4

in this pic, the S&B ammo in the chamber

and in this pic, one of the reloads

so, what say you?

too much resizing when it gets decapped? that would have been my 1st guess.

i cannot do anything to the press until, "Maybe" sunday, if at all. maybe during the week, if i can.

thanks in advance

 

[TEXASforLIFE]

I've seen other people post (maybe @SMSgtRod), but I haven't used any. Try the plunk test and either before or after do mag function test. I haven't used any lead bullets, but I thought they are .001" larger than copper for sealing purposes? Maybe @Talyn or others load these types? Is it a coal issue or varying coal issue?

 

[jumpinjoe]

I would offer just a couple observations and ask a couple questions .....
1 - your diameter measurements "just below the crimp" are acceptable even though a tad under optimal.
2 - why so much variation in your COL's? Across only 4 cartridges you have a difference of .011, if using same cases and same projectile they should be the same COL assuming the same charge.
3 - what factory cartridge did you measure the 'bullet' at .350? Somethings doesn't seem right here.
4 - you said "i am using Lee carbide dies, and the adjustments especially for the crimp die, i just really cannot dial that in any better, at least not right now" ..... why not? Are you referring to a seperate 'taper' crimp die or the combo 'bullet seater/crimp' die? Each 1 complete revolution of the die equals about .055 of bullet depth/COL IIRC. The crimp die should be the easiest to dial in. (make a 'tell tale' mark on the die so you can see exactly how much you're rotated it)
5 - If as you said regarding the flare..... "just enough to hold the bullets" ....... that's perfect.
6 - "Lee" carbide sizing dies for 9mm are full length sizing dies and cannot be set too deep to affect the case size ..... it can however be set too deep to get a complete stroke of your press. If the de-capping rod is too deep, it could distort/stretch the case head (depending on the shell holder used) and/or possibly (not likely) flatten the primer pocket. I see you're using "Dillon" resize die so I don't know, but would assume they're pretty much the same as the "Lee".

I'm including a SAAMI diagram of the measurements and measuring locations for the 9mm. With all due respect, with the variations you're getting across such a few loads, maybe another close up look-see is in order. Hope this helps a little. Good luck.

 

[jumpinjoe]

A couple last questions ...... what was your OA case length when you started loading? Did you measure the OAL after you resized them? Were the cases once fired from your gun, or were they range pick-ups?

 

[Old_Me]

I would offer just a couple observations and ask a couple questions .....
1 - your diameter measurements "just below the crimp" are acceptable even though a tad under optimal.
2 - why so much variation in your COL's? Across only 4 cartridges you have a difference of .011, if using same cases and same projectile they should be the same COL assuming the same charge.
3 - what factory cartridge did you measure the 'bullet' at .350? Somethings doesn't seem right here.
4 - you said "i am using Lee carbide dies, and the adjustments especially for the crimp die, i just really cannot dial that in any better, at least not right now" ..... why not? Are you referring to a seperate 'taper' crimp die or the combo 'bullet seater/crimp' die? Each 1 complete revolution of the die equals about .055 of bullet depth/COL IIRC. The crimp die should be the easiest to dial in. (make a 'tell tale' mark on the die so you can see exactly how much you're rotated it)
5 - If as you said regarding the flare..... "just enough to hold the bullets" ....... that's perfect.
6 - "Lee" carbide sizing dies for 9mm are full length sizing dies and cannot be set too deep to affect the case size ..... it can however be set too deep to get a complete stroke of your press. If the de-capping rod is too deep, it could distort/stretch the case head (depending on the shell holder used) and/or possibly (not likely) flatten the primer pocket. I see you're using "Dillon" resize die so I don't know, but would assume they're pretty much the same as the "Lee".

I'm including a SAAMI diagram of the measurements and measuring locations for the 9mm. With all due respect, with the variations you're getting across such a few loads, maybe another close up look-see is in order. Hope this helps a little. Good luck.


View attachment 26302

1) ok thanks

2) i think because i had to re-adjust to get close to the 1.169 OAL..??

3) S&B 115 gr FMJ

4 A) the tool head on a Dillon is thicker than on a Lee, i either have to screw any die way down and have nearly no threads left to tighten. or have the die way up in the tool head, there isn't any (to me) compromise in adjustments

4 B) it is a Lee factory crimp die

5) ok thanks

6) the only Dillon die being used, is the powder funnel/flaring die. other wise, i'd have no way of using the Dillon powder set up, and i'd have to use a plastic funnel to add powder to each cartridge.

 

[TEXASforLIFE]

1) ok thanks

2) i think because i had to re-adjust to get close to the 1.169 OAL..??

3) S&B 115 gr FMJ

4 A) the tool head on a Dillon is thicker than on a Lee, i either have to screw any die way down and have nearly no threads left to tighten. or have the die way up in the tool head, there isn't any (to me) compromise in adjustments

4 B) it is a Lee factory crimp die

5) ok thanks

6) the only Dillon die being used, is the powder funnel/flaring die. other wise, i'd have no way of using the Dillon powder set up, and i'd have to use a plastic funnel to add powder to each cartridge.

You could do this, but it would manual. The black collar will adapt to the Dillon powder die or just screw it straight in.

 

[Old_Me]

A couple last questions ...... what was your OA case length when you started loading? Did you measure the OAL after you resized them? Were the cases once fired from your gun, or were they range pick-ups?

most if not all the 9mm brass is mine, first fired, there could of course be strays. they will be S&B, Remington, Magtech, to name a few that i have on hand as new stock.

 

[jumpinjoe]

What kind of instrument are you using for your measurements? Brand and quality?

Be aware you should make every attempt to use the book's recommended COL based on the charge you've selected ... at least until you get a little more familiar with the hobby. Too short a COL can sometimes lead to compressed loads which can be disastrous. Too long a COL can sometimes lead to poor results due to too little or too late pressure curve.

I don't have any S&B's to double check, but I just measured some 115gr Federal AE's at .355 at the case mouth and some Fioccis at .354+-.001 at the same measuring point. .350 bullet diameter sounds like you may be measuring just a little too far out toward the nose. Tip: close your calipers very lightly on the bullet and slide it all the way back to where the case mouth catches the caliper jaws right on the edge. That should give you the best reading of bullet diameter.

Your #4A is greek to me unfortunately since I don't use "Dillon", and "Lee" doesn't use something called a 'tool head' that I'm aware of. #4B .... a "Lee" taper crimp die is almost failsafe. The shorter you screw the die down, the tighter the crimp will be .... even to the point of causing a groove in the side of the bullet if there is none from the factory. Obviously that would be far, far too much crimp. And again, I'm thinking each complete revolution of a "Lee" factory crimp die equals about .055 in depth. Tip: back out the crimp adjuster almost all the way, then set a factory loaded cartridge into your shell holder and raise the press ram up fully into the crimp die. Then slowly/carefully lower the adjuster until you feel it just touch the loaded round. That will provide you a good starting point in crimp to help you decide if you need more or less.

Your #6 accepted then my statement stands ..... the "Lee" sizing die is a 'full length' sizer and cannot be set too deep for sizing. It can be set much deeper than required to get a full length resize but the result would be to prevent a full stroke of your press with no discernible difference in the case sizing.

It is important though to always check the OAL of any unknown cases after a full length resizing. They may require trimming before loading. A variation of more than about .010 in OAL can/will affect every other step in the reloading process.... possibly even including whether the new rounds is sloppy or tight in a 'plunk' test and/or the gun's chamber.

I just saw your post #190 before I hit send on this one ......... once fired brass from your gun probably doesn't even require a measurement since it's now 'fire formed' to your gun's chamber and not likely too long OAL, however be aware some auto-loaders don't like any case that's over sized any amout from a factory/SAAMI case and might not function well.

But then your statement regarding brass that "there could of course be strays" is concerning. In reloading there should never be "strays". The re-loader should know his components inside and out. The manufacturer, the times fired, the case OAL, the charge, etc, etc, etc.

Be careful my friend, the stuff we're working with can and sometimes will hurt us.

 

[Old_Me]

What kind of instrument are you using for your measurements? Brand and quality?

Be aware you should make every attempt to use the book's recommended COL based on the charge you've selected ... at least until you get a little more familiar with the hobby. Too short a COL can sometimes lead to compressed loads which can be disastrous. Too long a COL can sometimes lead to poor results due to too little or too late pressure curve.

I don't have any S&B's to double check, but I just measured some 115gr Federal AE's at .355 at the case mouth and some Fioccis at .354+-.001 at the same measuring point. .350 bullet diameter sounds like you may be measuring just a little too far out toward the nose. Tip: close your calipers very lightly on the bullet and slide it all the way back to where the case mouth catches the caliper jaws right on the edge. That should give you the best reading of bullet diameter.

Your #4A is greek to me unfortunately since I don't use "Dillon", and "Lee" doesn't use something called a 'tool head' that I'm aware of. #4B .... a "Lee" taper crimp die is almost failsafe. The shorter you screw the die down, the tighter the crimp will be .... even to the point of causing a groove in the side of the bullet if there is none from the factory. Obviously that would be far, far too much crimp. And again, I'm thinking each complete revolution of a "Lee" factory crimp die equals about .055 in depth. Tip: back out the crimp adjuster almost all the way, then set a factory loaded cartridge into your shell holder and raise the press ram up fully into the crimp die. Then slowly/carefully lower the adjuster until you feel it just touch the loaded round. That will provide you a good starting point in crimp to help you decide if you need more or less.

Your #6 accepted then my statement stands ..... the "Lee" sizing die is a 'full length' sizer and cannot be set too deep for sizing. It can be set much deeper than required to get a full length resize but the result would be to prevent a full stroke of your press with no discernible difference in the case sizing.

It is important though to always check the OAL of any unknown cases after a full length resizing. They may require trimming before loading. A variation of more than about .010 in OAL can/will affect every other step in the reloading process.... possibly even including whether the new rounds is sloppy or tight in a 'plunk' test and/or the gun's chamber.

I just saw your post #190 before I hit send on this one ......... once fired brass from your gun probably doesn't even require a measurement since it's now 'fire formed' to your gun's chamber and not likely too long OAL, however be aware some auto-loaders don't like any case that's over sized any amout from a factory/SAAMI case and might not function well.

But then your statement regarding brass that "there could of course be strays" is concerning. In reloading there should never be "strays". The re-loader should know his components inside and out. The manufacturer, the times fired, the case OAL, the charge, etc, etc, etc.

Be careful my friend, the stuff we're working with can and sometimes will hurt us.

DIllon tool head, where the dies mount. somewhat taller than a Lee. making some adjustments of a Lee die a bit harder to do, for a newbie, not so much an experienced reloader.

 

[Old_Me]

using a Lyman digital sliding caliper

i sweep up my brass, but as you know stray brass from other shooters gets all over the place. so sweeping up "some strays" is common.

 

[TEXASforLIFE]

DIllon tool head, where the dies mount. somewhat taller than a Lee. making some adjustments of a Lee die a bit harder to do, for a newbie, not so much an experienced reloader.

View attachment 26306

I wonder why the allen head? The 2 I have use pins.

 

[jumpinjoe]

As I said earlier, I don't know "Dillon" all that well so I'm a little hesitant to offer too much advice on that brand, however I do know that "Lee" dies are set up by the relationship between the die and the ram itself or shell holder and/or a dummy round. See if there's not a way to use the set-up rules for the "Lee" stuff.

If using "Lee" dies, I would think the proper set-up would be for those dies. If using a "Dillon" die, then those set-up instructions would be appropriate regardless of which press you're using. I'm thinking the powder dump would be the one most likely to be different. It looks to me like the ram will come up inside that tool holder and you should be able to dial in the die by feel even if you can't see it.

An example is to raise the ram all the way up, then screw the die down till it touches the shell holder, then lower the ram and advance or back out the die a certain amount from there (usually 1-2 turns). Use the 'tell-tale' mark on the die to determine how much/little to screw it in/out.

Bullet seater die is similar in that you run a dummy or even a factory round up into the tool holder to top of the ram travel, screw the seating die down until it touches, then lower the ram and a final minor adjustment of the die (IIRC). All the other dies are set-up similar to these.

It's not rocket science, even I've been doing for nearly 40 years (duh). But it does need to be carefully and precisely set up for safe and effective results.

 

[TEXASforLIFE]

As I said earlier, I don't know "Dillon" all that well so I'm a little hesitant to offer too much advice on that brand, however I do know that "Lee" dies are set up by the relationship between the die and the ram itself or shell holder and/or a dummy round. See if there's not a way to use the set-up rules for the "Lee" stuff. If using "Lee" dies, I would think the proper set-up would be for those dies. If using a "Dillon" ide, then those set-up instructions would be appropriate regardless of which press you're using. I'm thinking the powder dump would be the one most likely to be different. It looks to me like the ram will come up inside that tool holder and you should be able to dial in the die by feel even if you can't see it.

An example is to raise the ram all the way up, then screw the die down till it touches the shell holder, then lower the ram and advance or back out the die a certain amount from there (usually 1-2 turns). Use the 'tell-tale' mark on the die to determine how much/little to screw it in/out.

Bullet seater die is similar in that you run a dummy or even a factory round up into the tool holder to top of the ram travel, screw the seating die down until it touches, then lower the ram and a final minor adjustment of the die (IIRC). All the other dies are set-up similar to these.

It's not rocket science, even I've been doing for nearly 40 years (duh). But it does need to be carefully and precisely set up for safe and effective results.

I have several Lee dies that I use on the 550 without issues. I do however have to thread them deep with very little left for the lock nut (crimp dies mainly).

 

[jumpinjoe]

I have several Lee dies that I use on the 550 without issues. I do however have to thread them deep with very little left for the lock nut (crimp dies mainly).

Sounds reasonable since the relationship between the die and the ram/shell holder is the starting point for "Lee". Thanks. Wish I knew a little more about the "Dillons" specifically, but I guess it's not real important since I've been a confirmed "Lee" user for a long, long time ..... LOL!

I considered a "Dillon" way back when I was into Silhouett competitions many years ago. I was shooting 12-15 thousand rounds a year, sometimes more, and at one point considered a good 'progressive' press. But then I was so damned particular about getting the 'inth' degree of consistency out of my loads I just didn't trust it to a progressive. So, I continued to use my turret presses and a couple single stage 'O' frames for my hunting loads.

I sometimes would go for hours sitting in my work room re-loading several hundred or more rounds just for the relaxation it provided me. Then the next night do the same thing over again .............. till I had enough for practice and the upcoming comps...... LOL!

 

[Talyn]

I've seen other people post (maybe @SMSgtRod), but I haven't used any. Try the plunk test and either before or after do mag function test. I haven't used any lead bullets, but I thought they are .001" larger than copper for sealing purposes? Maybe @Talyn or others load these types? Is it a coal issue or varying coal issue?

I only shoot coated and/or copper-plated/jacketed bullets in semi-auto pistols. Too many moving parts & path-ways in a semi-auto for a lead surface to slid against.

I leave the lead for revolvers.

 

[Old_Me]

I wonder why the allen head? The 2 I have use pins.

mine has pins as well, that was the only picture i could find to show the other poster what a tool head for a DIllon was.

 

[Old_Me]

As I said earlier, I don't know "Dillon" all that well so I'm a little hesitant to offer too much advice on that brand, however I do know that "Lee" dies are set up by the relationship between the die and the ram itself or shell holder and/or a dummy round. See if there's not a way to use the set-up rules for the "Lee" stuff.

If using "Lee" dies, I would think the proper set-up would be for those dies. If using a "Dillon" die, then those set-up instructions would be appropriate regardless of which press you're using. I'm thinking the powder dump would be the one most likely to be different. It looks to me like the ram will come up inside that tool holder and you should be able to dial in the die by feel even if you can't see it.

An example is to raise the ram all the way up, then screw the die down till it touches the shell holder, then lower the ram and advance or back out the die a certain amount from there (usually 1-2 turns). Use the 'tell-tale' mark on the die to determine how much/little to screw it in/out.

Bullet seater die is similar in that you run a dummy or even a factory round up into the tool holder to top of the ram travel, screw the seating die down until it touches, then lower the ram and a final minor adjustment of the die (IIRC). All the other dies are set-up similar to these.

It's not rocket science, even I've been doing for nearly 40 years (duh). But it does need to be carefully and precisely set up for safe and effective results.

i am setting up the Lee dies as per the Lee instructions. shell plate all the way to the top, etc,etc.

it may not be rocket science, but as you know, i am very new to this, was the "DUH" an insult thrown towards me for not being able to dial in the adjustments, you so take for granted..??

I have several Lee dies that I use on the 550 without issues. I do however have to thread them deep with very little left for the lock nut (crimp dies mainly).

yes, this is what i am finding for sure. the Lee dies have thier own locking rings, that are a bit "thicker" plus have that rubber gasket in them.

i took the 4 dummy rounds to the reloader guy at the store i go to. all he has is DIllons in his room. the largest Dillons in fact, all set up for production reloading. the 1100's i believe. like about 10 of them

he went through some steps with me this morning, like reducing the flare a little bit. his flaring die, does more of a taper flare, as mine does more of a "bell" flare?

he took measurements of the lead bullets, ran my bullet through his DIllon, and was able to get his finished product to "plunk" in his Lyman gauge block.

now however, my bullets are round nose. what i think are happen is the nose is hitting the inside of the chamber, meaning they have to be seating deeper a bit more.

i went to the Missouri Bullet company website, where these bullets are from.

they show a bullet seating depth of 1.08 for the 115 grain RN

however all thier other bullets...they show NO seating depths.

so i sent them an email just minutes ago.

if i recall, the former owner of this Dillon had a "few" dummy rounds, that i have to check OAL. they all were very short in OAL, but i didn't think anything of it, but now, i will measure them, and try them in one of my 9mm barrels.