Old_Me
SAINT
no, i had to yank out the deformed shell casing....i had put that in cockeyed.
the primer is still in it in fact.
how do i remove primers?
reloading questions/advice if you would please?
- Thread starter Old_Me
- Start date
the primer is still in it in fact.
how do i remove primers?
jumpinjoe
Hellcat
Very carefully if you must remove. I've always made a point to just drop the case into some water to soak the primer, then just trash it. But that's just me. Some say you can remove them occasionally with the decapping pin ..... but why take the chance?
Old_Me
SAINT
and that's what i was thinking...with the shortages, i'd hate to waste 1 primer....i'd rather lose 2 dozen spent shell casings instead.
but in the end, doing the water trick, would be the best way to go.
i had read a few times, (on so many other websites) where some have successfully removed a "live" primer.
i do not recall however, how many times they failed, before they became successful at it...!!!!!
Universal decamping die for removing live primers. If you use the appropriate sized decapping/resizing die then the brass is tightly sealed in the die when it goes boom, that’s bad. Think about how a pipe bomb works.
Universal decapping die is not tight around the brass, there is room for the blast to escape. Go slow and never reuse a live primer that has been decapped.
Universal decapping die is not tight around the brass, there is room for the blast to escape. Go slow and never reuse a live primer that has been decapped.
Old_Me
SAINT
Old_Me
SAINT
now, here are the measurements of my 20 reloaded rounds.
from 1.064 to 1.071
"the Lyman book", calls for 1.065.
but, the roundness of the lead bullets isn't like what's in the Lyman book, for 1, and for 2, each round that i
made" plunks into the Lyman testing block (pictured earlier), and plunks in that, as well as the Canik 9mm barrel, that gun goes to the range for testing these reloads.
some of the rounds turn easily in the barrel, some are a bit harder to turn however.
ok, so why would there be a "variation" of seating depths to the rounds?
the seating die is locked into position. as all the other dies.
is this " normal" to have slight seating depth variances?
i also checked EACH shell case for proper gunpowder, which was set at 3.4 grains of Bullseye, that's what "the book" called for, for starter reloads.
opinions?
thanks in advance
from 1.064 to 1.071
"the Lyman book", calls for 1.065.
but, the roundness of the lead bullets isn't like what's in the Lyman book, for 1, and for 2, each round that i
made" plunks into the Lyman testing block (pictured earlier), and plunks in that, as well as the Canik 9mm barrel, that gun goes to the range for testing these reloads.
some of the rounds turn easily in the barrel, some are a bit harder to turn however.
ok, so why would there be a "variation" of seating depths to the rounds?
the seating die is locked into position. as all the other dies.
is this " normal" to have slight seating depth variances?
i also checked EACH shell case for proper gunpowder, which was set at 3.4 grains of Bullseye, that's what "the book" called for, for starter reloads.
opinions?
thanks in advance
jumpinjoe
Hellcat
Bullet nose shape (ogive) vs bullet seater shape can sometimes make a little difference via friction from mismatched shapes. Sometimes it may be caused by the bullet not perfectly centered straight in the case mouth when the bullet seater makes contact. Occasionally it will be due to a difference in case brands, how long each case was when it was resized, the case wall thickness, case mouth temper, how exact the operator is each time he pulls the press handle compared to the last time, etc, etc. All/any of these issues can cause a difference. It will usually be very minor and not be a cause for worry ....... usually! Fact is most loaders won't even realize if/when their loads are running some slight variation in COL's.
Often, and especially if I'm using 'range pick-ups' which I seldom do, I'll mike one every now and then just to see that they're running a close average. If I find one to be way over my estimate of being acceptable, I'll give it another pull through the press. Often times a second pull will make a slight, 'just enough' adjustment. If I find I'm having a lot of issues like this (for whatever reason), I'll actually start turning the loaded cartridge about 90 degrees after the first pull before even taking it out of the shell holder and give them a second pull. That usually causes a much better average across the whole lot I'm loading at that time.
I don't think you have too much to be concerned about since your spread is only .007". I might take any at/over 1.068" and give them a second pull through the seating die just to see if they will gain a couple thousandths. If they do, well good ....... if they don't, well I wouldn't be too concerned. In all honesty, .007" ain't a whole lot to be concerned about about when it's just 'range fodder', and especially using lead bullets.
Edit: To add that .007" is only about the thickness of a heavy bond copy/printer paper. In other words, it ain't a lot!
Often, and especially if I'm using 'range pick-ups' which I seldom do, I'll mike one every now and then just to see that they're running a close average. If I find one to be way over my estimate of being acceptable, I'll give it another pull through the press. Often times a second pull will make a slight, 'just enough' adjustment. If I find I'm having a lot of issues like this (for whatever reason), I'll actually start turning the loaded cartridge about 90 degrees after the first pull before even taking it out of the shell holder and give them a second pull. That usually causes a much better average across the whole lot I'm loading at that time.
I don't think you have too much to be concerned about since your spread is only .007". I might take any at/over 1.068" and give them a second pull through the seating die just to see if they will gain a couple thousandths. If they do, well good ....... if they don't, well I wouldn't be too concerned. In all honesty, .007" ain't a whole lot to be concerned about about when it's just 'range fodder', and especially using lead bullets.
Edit: To add that .007" is only about the thickness of a heavy bond copy/printer paper. In other words, it ain't a lot!
jumpinjoe
Hellcat
Old_Me said: "now, here are the measurements of my 20 reloaded rounds.
from 1.064 to 1.071
"the Lyman book", calls for 1.065."
I'm assuming that is 'Min OAL.? If so you've got a couple right under the limit of 1.065". .001" is an easy measurement to miss and probably not a bad issue in this situation. Just keep in mind there is a real reason for 'MIN OAL's'.
from 1.064 to 1.071
"the Lyman book", calls for 1.065."
I'm assuming that is 'Min OAL.? If so you've got a couple right under the limit of 1.065". .001" is an easy measurement to miss and probably not a bad issue in this situation. Just keep in mind there is a real reason for 'MIN OAL's'.
Old_Me
SAINT
ok thanks.Bullet nose shape (ogive) vs bullet seater shape can sometimes make a little difference via friction from mismatched shapes. Sometimes it may be caused by the bullet not perfectly centered straight in the case mouth when the bullet seater makes contact. Occasionally it will be due to a difference in case brands, how long each case was when it was resized, the case wall thickness, case mouth temper, how exact the operator is each time he pulls the press handle compared to the last time, etc, etc. All/any of these issues can cause a difference. It will usually be very minor and not be a cause for worry ....... usually! Fact is most loaders won't even realize if/when their loads are running some slight variation in COL's.
Often, and especially if I'm using 'range pick-ups' which I seldom do, I'll mike one every now and then just to see that they're running a close average. If I find one to be way over my estimate of being acceptable, I'll give it another pull through the press. Often times a second pull will make a slight, 'just enough' adjustment. If I find I'm having a lot of issues like this (for whatever reason), I'll actually start turning the loaded cartridge about 90 degrees after the first pull before even taking it out of the shell holder and give them a second pull. That usually causes a much better average across the whole lot I'm loading at that time.
I don't think you have too much to be concerned about since your spread is only .007". I might take any at/over 1.068" and give them a second pull through the seating die just to see if they will gain a couple thousandths. If they do, well good ....... if they don't, well I wouldn't be too concerned. In all honesty, .007" ain't a whole lot to be concerned about about when it's just 'range fodder', and especially using lead bullets.
Edit: To add that .007" is only about the thickness of a heavy bond copy/printer paper. In other words, it ain't a lot!
today i was going to reload 8 rnds of .45 ACP, enough for 1 magazine, to test out. i have small pistol primer .45's, but i could not find them.
when i did find the 50 or so that i had, they were dirty, so i gave up doing anything for today, and the grandkids came over for a lunch, so it worked out i guess.
i think it is highly possible that i did not pull the handle exactly the same way each time.
as long as that variance ain't too much, the next 20 rnds of 9mm that i run through, i will measure each rnd for seating depth again. if the variances stay the same, (and i can only surmise that they will since the dies are locked into place), i will try to crank out maybe 50 rds, of 9mm.
hopefully before the weekend, i'd have also cranked out those 45's in a quantity of 8 rds too.
as far as "range pick ups", i do sweep my area, not that i have to, but to of course reclaim the shell casings. so of course, "stray" casing form other shooters come over to my area.
i will try from now on, to keep only name brands that i like, for instance, S&B, Federal to name only 2 specific brands.
in general terms however, most nearly every shooter there, is using factory new ammo. but i will stay away from the mexican brands for sure. like the Aquila brand.
Old_Me
SAINT
the book from what i can see, said...1.065.....with the starter charge......of 3.4 grains..........on page 401, of the 50th edition of the Lyman manual
on page 398, there is an overall diagram, showing, i'd imagine the maximum OAL?
of 1.169
jumpinjoe
Hellcat
Sounds like you're well on your way to gettin' to where you want to be with your reloading. It takes patience and practice to get consistency, and consistency in your loads is what will get you consistency in your accuracy. Take notice of just how hard you pull on the press handle each time and try to make each one the same as the one before it.
And I didn't mean to imply there is anything inherently wrong with range pick-ups. The main disadvantage to using them is you never know for sure how many times they've been fired, how hot the loads were if reloads, etc. Just the unknowns you can eliminate by using only your own fired cases are a benefit. And if you don't know the history of some 'pick-ups' it's hard to attain that consistency we all want. Shooting at an indoor range and being allowed to sweep your own after shooting is a pretty safe bet.
As far as min OAL's (minimum overall length) and or COL's, (cartridge overall length), they are both important. The min OAL is to ensure a loader doesn't seat the bullet too deep over the powder charge and cause too high pressures inside the cartridge case. The COL is the longest a given cartridge can be and still function through the action/chamber of your gun. That measurement can also be important to head spacing with the straight walled cases that headspace on the case mouth. A bullet seated too far lout (too long COL) can sometimes contact the free bore/'throat' in a chamber and cause other issues. Just ensure you're aware of whether you're reading a 'MIN OAL', or a 'MAX COL' when you're in the book.
That 1.169" you mentioned above is COL for the 9mm IIRC, which means now thinking more about it, you have a couple loads there a tad over the limit of 1.169" COL. So just for real safety sake, yeh, I'd give them all a second pull, then a real close measure. Any too long will probably be OK afterwards, and any too short can be lightly bumped out a couple thousandths with an inertia 'bullet puller'. After a second pull or a little bump out, and assuming they're all within specs, run them all back through the crimper another time.
Most of what we've talked about here today is dedicated to the "inth' degree and certainly there is some leeway in some of it. I'm a relic from many years of handgun competitions with some years running 12-15+ thousand rounds per year, most of them my reloads. I became almost obsessed with safety in reloading and trying to find the ultimate consistency in my loads and I'm sure at time I went over board. But everything I've expressed to you has been in the strictest sense of safety, then consistency. Be safe, have fun, and shoot well.
And I didn't mean to imply there is anything inherently wrong with range pick-ups. The main disadvantage to using them is you never know for sure how many times they've been fired, how hot the loads were if reloads, etc. Just the unknowns you can eliminate by using only your own fired cases are a benefit. And if you don't know the history of some 'pick-ups' it's hard to attain that consistency we all want. Shooting at an indoor range and being allowed to sweep your own after shooting is a pretty safe bet.
As far as min OAL's (minimum overall length) and or COL's, (cartridge overall length), they are both important. The min OAL is to ensure a loader doesn't seat the bullet too deep over the powder charge and cause too high pressures inside the cartridge case. The COL is the longest a given cartridge can be and still function through the action/chamber of your gun. That measurement can also be important to head spacing with the straight walled cases that headspace on the case mouth. A bullet seated too far lout (too long COL) can sometimes contact the free bore/'throat' in a chamber and cause other issues. Just ensure you're aware of whether you're reading a 'MIN OAL', or a 'MAX COL' when you're in the book.
That 1.169" you mentioned above is COL for the 9mm IIRC, which means now thinking more about it, you have a couple loads there a tad over the limit of 1.169" COL. So just for real safety sake, yeh, I'd give them all a second pull, then a real close measure. Any too long will probably be OK afterwards, and any too short can be lightly bumped out a couple thousandths with an inertia 'bullet puller'. After a second pull or a little bump out, and assuming they're all within specs, run them all back through the crimper another time.
Most of what we've talked about here today is dedicated to the "inth' degree and certainly there is some leeway in some of it. I'm a relic from many years of handgun competitions with some years running 12-15+ thousand rounds per year, most of them my reloads. I became almost obsessed with safety in reloading and trying to find the ultimate consistency in my loads and I'm sure at time I went over board. But everything I've expressed to you has been in the strictest sense of safety, then consistency. Be safe, have fun, and shoot well.
Old_Me
SAINT
the limit in the book of 1.169......according to the diagram
but my "longest OAL", is 1.071, that is below the 1.169, isn't it..????
by about .098 ??
yeah, i know now that each pull of the handle was not the same. i can't say why though.
jumpinjoe
Hellcat
Sorry 'bout that .......... I guess I missed a decimal point somehow or something. I was writing that from memory if IIRC and should have gone back to re-read it as you posted it. My bad !!!
When I wrote "which means now thinking more about it, you have a couple loads there a tad over the limit of 1.169" COL." I guess I was thinking 1.671" instead of 1.071" as you wrote. Once again, sorry about that.
Obviously none of your loads are too long, so the only thing I would suggest is to bump those under the 1.065 if you felt the need ........... in all honesty that .001" could have been lost in measuring. I really don't think I'd worry about it considering you're using the starting loads on the lower end.
Man I really hate I got confused........... and again I apologize. I'll be more careful in the future with my numbers....... maybe even start proof reading like I should.
When I wrote "which means now thinking more about it, you have a couple loads there a tad over the limit of 1.169" COL." I guess I was thinking 1.671" instead of 1.071" as you wrote. Once again, sorry about that.
Obviously none of your loads are too long, so the only thing I would suggest is to bump those under the 1.065 if you felt the need ........... in all honesty that .001" could have been lost in measuring. I really don't think I'd worry about it considering you're using the starting loads on the lower end.
Man I really hate I got confused........... and again I apologize. I'll be more careful in the future with my numbers....... maybe even start proof reading like I should.
Old_Me
SAINT
no biggie, but i had to ask all the same.Sorry 'bout that .......... I guess I missed a decimal point somehow or something. I was writing that from memory if IIRC and should have gone back to re-read it as you posted it. My bad !!!
When I wrote "which means now thinking more about it, you have a couple loads there a tad over the limit of 1.169" COL." I guess I was thinking 1.671" instead of 1.071" as you wrote. Once again, sorry about that.
Obviously none of your loads are too long, so the only thing I would suggest is to bump those under the 1.065 if you felt the need ........... in all honesty that .001" could have been lost in measuring. I really don't think I'd worry about it considering you're using the starting loads on the lower end.
Man I really hate I got confused........... and again I apologize. I'll be more careful in the future with my numbers....... maybe even start proof reading like I should.
yeah, i "noticed" that when measuring the lead bullets, many times, i have to take more than one measurement, as the bullets do not "seem" to be perfectly rounded. i must (at times) be measuring from a low spot. i even measure each OAL from the inside (the flat area) of the caliper, and from the "pointed/thin" area. but i prefer the "flat area" as it is (to me) easier to position the cartridge on the flats of the caliper, over the "pointed/thin" area of that caliper.
thanks again
Old_Me
SAINT
ok, took the 20 rds of reloads to the range....
1) no failure to feed
2) no failure to extract or eject
3) no failure to fire.
in fact, i put all 20 rds into the mag, and had at it. first a "few" single shots, then rapid firing the remainder.
at least 1 flier, which for me, that is normal.
here is a pic of that target
special thanks to ALL that advised, and helped me up to this point.
i still have to finish dialing in the powder charge of the Lee for the .45 ACP, which if all goes well, should be someday this week. i might do only 8 rds, but may also go for 16 rds,
i'll still have questions in the future....
thanks again all...!!!!...
1) no failure to feed
2) no failure to extract or eject
3) no failure to fire.
in fact, i put all 20 rds into the mag, and had at it. first a "few" single shots, then rapid firing the remainder.
at least 1 flier, which for me, that is normal.
here is a pic of that target
special thanks to ALL that advised, and helped me up to this point.
i still have to finish dialing in the powder charge of the Lee for the .45 ACP, which if all goes well, should be someday this week. i might do only 8 rds, but may also go for 16 rds,
i'll still have questions in the future....
thanks again all...!!!!...
Old_Me
SAINT
ok, today was the day i wanted to start to dial in the Lee Pro-4000 for 45 ACP.
i only reloaded 16 small pistol primer Federal shell casings. (just enough for 2 mags, for my Tisas 1911)
round nose, cast lead bullets, the bait/tackle store owner gave me 100 of them, no charge, (i mentioned that in a previous posting)
got the specs from the Lyman book.
specs for starter reloads was 3.0 gr of powder,
1.265 OAL
i still need to pull the press handle consistently, even on the Lee, like i still need to do, on the Dillon.
some quick observations is that the Lee primer system, will drop a primer on the floor, every once in a while. i may forgo that system, and put primers in one by one, by hand.
in fact, "Gavin" the reloading guy on, "Gavintoob", a you tube channel, had set up the Lee Pro as well, and he hand fed the primers.
anyway, my OAL measurements were from 1.209 to 1.250
each round, "plunked" into the Lyman gauge block, and each round plunked into the Tisas barrel, and spun in the barrel as well.
the low end of the 1.209 bothers me, but if it shoots, great, i'll be happy.
like everyone else, i am checking sites for Large pistol primers, but i do not want magnum.
i can continue to wait for what i want.
i only reloaded 16 small pistol primer Federal shell casings. (just enough for 2 mags, for my Tisas 1911)
round nose, cast lead bullets, the bait/tackle store owner gave me 100 of them, no charge, (i mentioned that in a previous posting)
got the specs from the Lyman book.
specs for starter reloads was 3.0 gr of powder,
1.265 OAL
i still need to pull the press handle consistently, even on the Lee, like i still need to do, on the Dillon.
some quick observations is that the Lee primer system, will drop a primer on the floor, every once in a while. i may forgo that system, and put primers in one by one, by hand.
in fact, "Gavin" the reloading guy on, "Gavintoob", a you tube channel, had set up the Lee Pro as well, and he hand fed the primers.
anyway, my OAL measurements were from 1.209 to 1.250
each round, "plunked" into the Lyman gauge block, and each round plunked into the Tisas barrel, and spun in the barrel as well.
the low end of the 1.209 bothers me, but if it shoots, great, i'll be happy.
like everyone else, i am checking sites for Large pistol primers, but i do not want magnum.
i can continue to wait for what i want.
Old_Me
SAINT
yeah, when i measured that 1.209, i knew it wasn't right, but i will at least still try shooting it.
as far as bullet grain, the .45 ACP are 230
i can always pull the bullet, and redo it.
jumpinjoe
Hellcat
This post will be very figurative only because I'm really not absolutely sure of your recipe for your 45's, so I'm guessing at best on some things and don't want to steer you wrong.
Earlier most of what I took from what you wrote seemed to be leaning more to frangible bullets than to cast lead but up to this point wasn't a real issue. I wasn't quite sure why it seemed that way, but up till now I didn't see any real issues. But now you've entered a number which I believe to be a 'Min OAL' which in some cases is a critical measurement.
Building a too short cartridge is indicative of possible too high pressures. In your/this case it probably won't be an issue due to your stating the starting charge of 3.0grs of powder, but we don't know what powder you're using as far as I can recall. Remember, different powders can/will/do produce different pressure curves when ignited.
So, accepting you're using the minimum starting load for your particular powder in your chosen cartridge (45 Auto), and that the majority of loads shown in most of my literature for the 230 gr lead bullet show min OAL of around 1.200", and the .001" in question is probably due to measuring error, and that the majority of loads we're discussing are on the lower end of pressure ratings, you will probably be OK.
Please keep in mind I'm not advising you to go ahead and shoot them, just my best guess based on info I have. Me personally, I would pull them and reload them just to be sure. Remember, I told you I was a remnant/left over from many years of competition reloading and always strive for the 'inth' degree of consistency as well as safety. And finally, I'd appreciate your providing us a complete recipe of the load you're using. You may have provided it over time, but I don't seem to have the whole thing.
In the meantime, be careful, be sure, and be safe in your loading and your shooting.
Earlier most of what I took from what you wrote seemed to be leaning more to frangible bullets than to cast lead but up to this point wasn't a real issue. I wasn't quite sure why it seemed that way, but up till now I didn't see any real issues. But now you've entered a number which I believe to be a 'Min OAL' which in some cases is a critical measurement.
Building a too short cartridge is indicative of possible too high pressures. In your/this case it probably won't be an issue due to your stating the starting charge of 3.0grs of powder, but we don't know what powder you're using as far as I can recall. Remember, different powders can/will/do produce different pressure curves when ignited.
So, accepting you're using the minimum starting load for your particular powder in your chosen cartridge (45 Auto), and that the majority of loads shown in most of my literature for the 230 gr lead bullet show min OAL of around 1.200", and the .001" in question is probably due to measuring error, and that the majority of loads we're discussing are on the lower end of pressure ratings, you will probably be OK.
Please keep in mind I'm not advising you to go ahead and shoot them, just my best guess based on info I have. Me personally, I would pull them and reload them just to be sure. Remember, I told you I was a remnant/left over from many years of competition reloading and always strive for the 'inth' degree of consistency as well as safety. And finally, I'd appreciate your providing us a complete recipe of the load you're using. You may have provided it over time, but I don't seem to have the whole thing.
In the meantime, be careful, be sure, and be safe in your loading and your shooting.