YahwehNoDeshi
Alpha
Trying not to let the negativity get to me so I'm going to give SA a chance
Springfield Prodigy Questions
- Thread starter YahwehNoDeshi
- Start date
YahwehNoDeshi
Alpha
I love that gun. I wish Sig had better finish on their guns because it has rust spots for me but It runs well.
Bassbob
Emissary
Better is highly subjective. They’re not better for concealability or capacity.
JustanaberageJoe
Elite
With a lot of things new model/product lines have their kinks and issues the first year they are out. I try and avoid buying anything that’s a new product for a year after launch.
Not knocking the prodigy, just seen too many issues across the board with new product launches to be in a rush to get it.
Besides I’m trying to save up for a Shadow 2
Not knocking the prodigy, just seen too many issues across the board with new product launches to be in a rush to get it.
Besides I’m trying to save up for a Shadow 2
Annihilator
Emissary
Ok, let me set something straight here on the 12lb recoil spring. I AM NOT SAYING TO CHANGE IT OR IT NEEDS TO BE CHANGED FROM THE FACTORY 9lb SPRING. I was just saying on my RO Operator in 9mm, I was having similar issues with it, Springfield CS said factory spring was a 9lb, I have a Kimber 1911 also in 9mm and it runs fine, but it has a 12lb spring. So out of curiosity I pulled the Kimber spring and put it in my RO, my issue disappeared. So I replaced the 9lb to a 12lb. This was just me finding out how to fix a small issue which I figured was the spring after 30+ years of handling a 1911. No way am I suggesting that Springfield put in a to weak recoil spring, I was just mentioning it here to some members to try doing this before the hassle of sending there gun back.
I myself am waiting for the Prodigy 4.25 which should be here in a few days. I really wonder just how many of those are in the hands of owners? Sure I too have seen and read many of these articles regarding problems, but also I seen some that raved.
I just might be a dumb chit but as of now still plan on taker her home when it comes in. Crossing my fingers on how this will all fall out.
YahwehNoDeshi
Alpha
I was looking at a Shadow 2 Optics ready and I was wondering how good it was. The SP-01 i had was amazing. I also was thinking about having hayes custom do a RIA 2011 for me. But the forums have encouraged me to give thee prodigy a chanceWith a lot of things new model/product lines have their kinks and issues the first year they are out. I try and avoid buying anything that’s a new product for a year after launch.
Not knocking the prodigy, just seen too many issues across the board with new product launches to be in a rush to get it.
Besides I’m trying to save up for a Shadow 2
YahwehNoDeshi
Alpha
I got a holster from QVO tactical on the way for it already and some mags so I think I will just try it and see how it goes. If not well i'll go sell it.
Talyn
SAINT
Alot of new shooters & some more experienced ones aren't aware of the importance of springs in firearms, especially for the maintenance of proper function. And recoil springs have to be replaced after several thousand rounds.
While I don't have nor will get a Prodigy, I don't see how it could deviate with accepted recoil spring rates that are commonly used in other 9mm 1911s, so I was surprised that the 5" came with a 9 lb. spring whereas the 4.25" came with a 12lb. I haven't seen any indications that the Prodigy has a different recoil spring design (double springs, etc.) that would allow for a 9 lbs. spring.
Competition speed shooters (Steel Challenge) set up their pistols to shoot lite loads (9mm Minor) and light springs (8-9 lbs) for minimal recoil since they're not having to meet Power Factors needed for other courses of fire. That being said I've seen nothing from SA to say the Prodigy is only set up as a competition gun. And I was surprised that the Prodigy models were sprung the way they're reported.
Perhaps this Dave Dawson chart will help folks understand what spring rate is appropriate for Minor (lite loads) and Major (normal/heavy loads). Those that want to use normal self-defense loads should use springs rated as major, +P or Plus p+ in the chart.
While I don't have nor will get a Prodigy, I don't see how it could deviate with accepted recoil spring rates that are commonly used in other 9mm 1911s, so I was surprised that the 5" came with a 9 lb. spring whereas the 4.25" came with a 12lb. I haven't seen any indications that the Prodigy has a different recoil spring design (double springs, etc.) that would allow for a 9 lbs. spring.
Competition speed shooters (Steel Challenge) set up their pistols to shoot lite loads (9mm Minor) and light springs (8-9 lbs) for minimal recoil since they're not having to meet Power Factors needed for other courses of fire. That being said I've seen nothing from SA to say the Prodigy is only set up as a competition gun. And I was surprised that the Prodigy models were sprung the way they're reported.
Perhaps this Dave Dawson chart will help folks understand what spring rate is appropriate for Minor (lite loads) and Major (normal/heavy loads). Those that want to use normal self-defense loads should use springs rated as major, +P or Plus p+ in the chart.
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Talyn
SAINT
BTW - Using a recoil spring calibration package (usually 3 springs of different weights) allows a owner/shooter to tune their 1911 (Prodigy or reg) for the loads that they'll typically use.
Example: For a .45 acp 1911 the commonly accepted weight is 16 lbs. for normal ammo).
And..typically the shorter slide size (lighter weight) will require a heavier recoil spring. The 4.5" Prodigy follows that rule but typically the rate is a bit higher than 12 although 12 lbs appears to work in that slide length. But, a lighter spring rate can also result in more wear & tear than one heavier but still allows for proper function.
Example: For a .45 acp 1911 the commonly accepted weight is 16 lbs. for normal ammo).
And..typically the shorter slide size (lighter weight) will require a heavier recoil spring. The 4.5" Prodigy follows that rule but typically the rate is a bit higher than 12 although 12 lbs appears to work in that slide length. But, a lighter spring rate can also result in more wear & tear than one heavier but still allows for proper function.
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Thanks for the information. Much appreciated.
Talyn
SAINT
From Brownells relating to the .45 acp. but explains how things work. The same principals apply to other pistols albeit based on their different design(s).
1911 Auto Recoil Spring Compression Weights by: Dave Koebensky of W.C. Wolff Co. & Brownells GunTechs
A certain amount of confusion exists when it comes to the subject of recoil springs for the 1911 Auto. Alterations to the gun which involve changing the weight of its recoiling mass will often require a change in the recoil spring weight, as will major changes in the ammunition being fired.
Just what constitutes a recoil spring’s weight? The amount of energy stored by a conventionally wound spring as it is compressed changes value in a straight line. For example, if you compress a conventional spring an inch, it may store a pound of energy. Compressing it another inch will store an additional pound of energy. At three inches we would have 3 pounds of energy stored.
A variable-weight spring works differently. The amount of energy stored for each increment of compression changes on a curve. As an example, compressing a variable weight spring one inch may store 4 ounces of energy, another one inch will store an additional 8 ounces of energy, the third inch will add another 12 ounces, and so on. A conventional 16-pound recoil spring and a variable 16-pound recoil spring will both store 16 pounds of energy, but they get to that point at different rates.
While 1911 Auto recoil springs are available in a variety of weights, 16 pounds is considered the standard for full-size guns with 5" barrels. Just how is this figure of 16 pounds determined? In full recoil, the space available for the recoil spring to occupy is 1.625". At this point in its compression, its stored energy is 16 pounds. A 15-pound spring would store 15 pounds of energy when compressed to 1.625", etc.
Similar pistols but with shorter slides, such as Commander or Officer’s ACP-length models, require springs that are not only shorter, but have different compression weights. A standard Commander spring is 18 pounds when compressed to 1.125", while the Officers ACP spring system must store 22 pounds of energy when compressed to .700". The free length prior to compression is not all that important, as long as it fits within the available space.
These figures should explain why the shooter cannot take an 18-pound full-size Government model recoil spring and shorten it and expect it to function the same as a standard 18-pound spring in his Commander-length pistol.
Just what weight of spring should be used? As mentioned at the beginning, changes in the weight of the slide and barrel combination, addition of barrel weights or compensators, optical sights attached directly to the slide, or changes to the ballistics of your ammunition may require a change in spring weight. The rule of thumb is to use the heaviest spring available while maintaining reliable function.
A fair indicator is how far from the shooter the ejected cases land. Less than three feet may indicate the need for a lighter spring, while more than six feet may indicate the need for a heavier spring. Keep in mind that too light a spring may result in damage to your pistol.
1911 Auto Recoil Spring Compression Weights by: Dave Koebensky of W.C. Wolff Co. & Brownells GunTechs
A certain amount of confusion exists when it comes to the subject of recoil springs for the 1911 Auto. Alterations to the gun which involve changing the weight of its recoiling mass will often require a change in the recoil spring weight, as will major changes in the ammunition being fired.
Just what constitutes a recoil spring’s weight? The amount of energy stored by a conventionally wound spring as it is compressed changes value in a straight line. For example, if you compress a conventional spring an inch, it may store a pound of energy. Compressing it another inch will store an additional pound of energy. At three inches we would have 3 pounds of energy stored.
A variable-weight spring works differently. The amount of energy stored for each increment of compression changes on a curve. As an example, compressing a variable weight spring one inch may store 4 ounces of energy, another one inch will store an additional 8 ounces of energy, the third inch will add another 12 ounces, and so on. A conventional 16-pound recoil spring and a variable 16-pound recoil spring will both store 16 pounds of energy, but they get to that point at different rates.
While 1911 Auto recoil springs are available in a variety of weights, 16 pounds is considered the standard for full-size guns with 5" barrels. Just how is this figure of 16 pounds determined? In full recoil, the space available for the recoil spring to occupy is 1.625". At this point in its compression, its stored energy is 16 pounds. A 15-pound spring would store 15 pounds of energy when compressed to 1.625", etc.
Similar pistols but with shorter slides, such as Commander or Officer’s ACP-length models, require springs that are not only shorter, but have different compression weights. A standard Commander spring is 18 pounds when compressed to 1.125", while the Officers ACP spring system must store 22 pounds of energy when compressed to .700". The free length prior to compression is not all that important, as long as it fits within the available space.
These figures should explain why the shooter cannot take an 18-pound full-size Government model recoil spring and shorten it and expect it to function the same as a standard 18-pound spring in his Commander-length pistol.
Just what weight of spring should be used? As mentioned at the beginning, changes in the weight of the slide and barrel combination, addition of barrel weights or compensators, optical sights attached directly to the slide, or changes to the ballistics of your ammunition may require a change in spring weight. The rule of thumb is to use the heaviest spring available while maintaining reliable function.
A fair indicator is how far from the shooter the ejected cases land. Less than three feet may indicate the need for a lighter spring, while more than six feet may indicate the need for a heavier spring. Keep in mind that too light a spring may result in damage to your pistol.
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JustanaberageJoe
Elite
From my understanding it’s pretty popular, and deservedly so.
Hope to rent one in the next week or two to see if it’s worth the hype.
@SimonRL said his Prodigy is pushing the 10,000 serial number range so there's at least that many or more in the wild already.
I'll be taking my 4.25 back to the range either later today or tomorrow sometime to throw some more rounds down range. I've shot only 50 rounds with mine so far the day I picked it up from the LGS and it worked flawlessly.
Also important add oil to the rails and manually rack the slide and dry fire. You are wearing the parts into each other. In the video I did the trigger got better and sweeter with time. It is way cheaper to hand rack the slide, dry fire and repeat.
HansGruber
Ronin
As a longtime 1911 guy…
I like grease on my rails, particularly at break-in. TW25b is my choice.
YahwehNoDeshi
Alpha
What brand of grease do you use? When i pickup my prodigy I may do that
YahwehNoDeshi
Alpha
I saw your video... i liked it too. But there's so much fud it's hurting my wallet lol
HansGruber
Ronin
I’ll add a couple drops of oil (whatever) on top of it.
YahwehNoDeshi
Alpha
Thank you friend