Stripped T-10 torx screw in XDM Elite optic plate
- Thread starter Minuteman76
- Start date
Minuteman76
Operator
I think I'll use blue to attach the plate to the weapon and purple to attach the optic to the plate. Not sure yet but I'm going to sure as hell call Springfield today and see.
Keystone19250
SAINT
So I picked up my Elite Compact 45 and had no issues removing the 3 screws and plate, each of the screws had a dot of blue Loc-Tite on the threads.
I used the T-10 in a kit I have.
They were snug but not overly tight.
Minuteman76
Operator
thank you for the update. The two that I was able to remove also had blue loctite on them. Good luck w/ your setup!
Keystone19250
SAINT
As an update I’m installing the same Holosun on my new Elite that I have on my 10mm Elite, the 3 screws that held on the guns cover plate were used to install the red dot mounting plate, the Holosun came with two different lengths of screws to mount the RD to the mounting plate, two of one set worked perfectly.
Each screw had Blue Loc-Tite on the threads.
Install complete 20 minutes.
Last edited:
Minuteman76
Operator
damn...
nice work. (looks at phone waiting for springfield to call)
Minuteman76
Operator
so, a L handed drill bit, slow and ease into it and see if it'll bite into the screw head and start it turning?
Keystone19250
SAINT
The Holosun on my 10mm has worked flawlessly.
Belt Fed
Ronin
Holosun probably a better dot than The ADE. we'll see in about a month if it works. i have a holosun on two guns. my old eyes can see better with a red dot instead of sights.
RickAnderson
Custom
I got a XD-M Elite OSP 4.5" 9mm new, it was 20 minutes to pull the cover plate and install the adapter and RDS.
So, in most cases you shouldn't have a problem.
When dealing with tiny screws like this, make sure you have the right tool and it fits properly. If you had to small of a torx wrench, but it is grabbing a bit on the edges, is a recipe for stripping out the head of the screw. Make sure tool fits tight, it all the way seated and perpendicular to the screw or you'll mess up the screw.
Not accusing the OP of anything, just saying its something to know before messing with these screws.
It does look like you can drill out the screw head to get the plate off and hope there is enough screw exposed you can grab it with a vice-grips and turn the rest of the threads out. How small that screw is, chances are not good you'd get a good grip on the remaining threads to turn it out. It might be smarter to get an "easy-out" and insert it into the hole stripped into the head, to back the screw out. If you don't know what an "easy-out" is, you might want to take it to a gunsmith/machinist/send it in to SA.
One thing about Loc-tite, it will seal out the elements on the threads and prevent the threads from seizing from corrosion. Maybe not much of a concern on a firearm, but when I work on cars, on the undercarriage, I always use loctite on all the hardware. The bolts with loctite come apart easily, just a little initial breakaway torque. The bolts untreated, are often seized and a pain to remove. There are other reasons to use Loctite as well, and are recommended/required by the designers/engineers. So, I'll accept arguments that it can be over-used and engineers/designers being against using it in their particular application. But I do NOT accept it is useless, a band-aid for bad design, etc, some applications it is very useful and some even necessary.
So, in most cases you shouldn't have a problem.
When dealing with tiny screws like this, make sure you have the right tool and it fits properly. If you had to small of a torx wrench, but it is grabbing a bit on the edges, is a recipe for stripping out the head of the screw. Make sure tool fits tight, it all the way seated and perpendicular to the screw or you'll mess up the screw.
Not accusing the OP of anything, just saying its something to know before messing with these screws.
It does look like you can drill out the screw head to get the plate off and hope there is enough screw exposed you can grab it with a vice-grips and turn the rest of the threads out. How small that screw is, chances are not good you'd get a good grip on the remaining threads to turn it out. It might be smarter to get an "easy-out" and insert it into the hole stripped into the head, to back the screw out. If you don't know what an "easy-out" is, you might want to take it to a gunsmith/machinist/send it in to SA.
One thing about Loc-tite, it will seal out the elements on the threads and prevent the threads from seizing from corrosion. Maybe not much of a concern on a firearm, but when I work on cars, on the undercarriage, I always use loctite on all the hardware. The bolts with loctite come apart easily, just a little initial breakaway torque. The bolts untreated, are often seized and a pain to remove. There are other reasons to use Loctite as well, and are recommended/required by the designers/engineers. So, I'll accept arguments that it can be over-used and engineers/designers being against using it in their particular application. But I do NOT accept it is useless, a band-aid for bad design, etc, some applications it is very useful and some even necessary.
Tinyman
Custom
Absolutely. And one LH drill bit is a lot more inexpensive than an EZ Out Set. And, with an EZ Out operation, you generally have to drill a pilot hole for the EZ Out to go into.
(You learn a lot of weird stuff working on a variety of aircraft for 50+ years)
Bassbob
Emissary
I use EZ outs all the time. I can't imagine one that small.
Annihilator
Emissary
Bassbob
Emissary
Sure there are legitimate uses. Lubrication isn't really one of them though. That's what anti seize is for. And there is no doubt that while it isn't useless, it is often used as a band aid to compensate for crappy steel or poorly designed applications.
Nevertheless, I have somewhat altered my opinion of Loc-Tite. I am convinced the biggest problem is improperly torquing tiny screws. Ironically I think that it's true a lot of manufacturers use or recommend it assuming the end user will not torque it properly, but the most likely result isn't going to be an under torqued screw that could back out. It's going to be an over torqued screw that may never come out, willingly.
I still see no need for it for quality optics, but I understand why people will use it. And in the future if I ever do have an issue with my zero or something coming loose, I just may use some Loc-Tite. The purple kind though.
* edited to say- Did you see this @SimonRL ?
RickAnderson
Custom
I never said Loc-Tite lubricates threads, I said they seal the threads. It anerobic, once torqued down removing any oxygen in the threads filled with loctite, it will harden and become solid, this will seal out water, salt and road grime that could work its way into the threads and cause corrosion and seizing.
I can see the argument, that on a firearm, that you are actively maintaining and preventing corrosion, there is no need to seal screws to prevent corrosion.
I've used anti-seize as well, for undercarriage, and while it will lubricate threads, it has a lot of heavy metals suspended in it that will act as a sacrificial anode to prevent corrosion on the threads. I've worried the lubricating properties of the anti-seize might allow bolts to loosen up, but I haven't seen that. I tend to use the loctite on small bolts and anti-seize on large bolts. Lubricating threads will throw off torque to clamp force values and can cause you to overtorque hardware when using torque values for dry torques. You're suppose to reduce the torque if using a torque wrench if you use anti-seize on the threads. I think its by 25%.
A lot of supplied screws for optics, including quality optics, come with loctite pre-applied to the threads. I can see the argument, that if already comes with loctite, not to use more.
Pre-appliead loctite is a different formulation than regular loctite. You can NOT put a drop of regular loctite on threads and have it harden and work the same as you see on the threads that come with loctite pre-applied, they get a different product at the factor that they use to pre-apply that loctite on threads.
Now the screws that hold the cover plate/adapter plate on the XD-M slide, they are very tiny. I have to agree with you, I would worry about the loctite being enough on such tiny screws, you could run into trouble. Personally the screws for the optic to slide/adapter plate look sturdy enough to me, I don't worry about using loctite. Perhaps if I got an optic that had smaller screws, I would worry then.
RickAnderson
Custom
I'm about to start another Cerakote job on another pistol I own. I'm debating pulling the adapter plate on my XD-M Elite OSP 9mm and Cerakoting the black plate FDE like the rest of the pistol. I loctited those small screws that hold the adapter plate to the slide, so that would be a test if I do decide to pull the plate, find out if the loctite caused a problem.
Bassbob
Emissary
You're also supposed to reduce torque values using Loc-Tite. When you put a drop of Loc-Tite on a screw you have lubricated it. The stuff from the factory with the dried up glop, not lubricated. Also probably not clean, though it may be dry at least. I just put a trigger in an AR and the anti walk screws came pre loctited.
We use anti seize on completion plugs in stopper nipples and tees on high pressure gas mains, then we leave them underground for years on end.