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We are in trouble

****ING THIS.
And Bassbob said: "Seems to me if establishment republicans and establishment democrats hate trump and want him in prison or out of politics this bad, it sure as F isn’t because he’s a threat to democracy. He’s a threat to their power and their money train."
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That about says it all right there!
 
Oaktree, with all due respect, you nor anyone else has proven the he caused "his followers to riot and attack congress". There have been many accusations especially from folks like Pelosi and other prominent democrats, but they are only accusations to enable them to refer to it as an insurrection. It happened in what the rioters considered for his benefit, but he never did anything to incite a riot. And as a matter of fact only a small number of all who went to the capital could be considered a rioter. Most were just tag-alongs and caught up in the movement. Much like I'm pretty sure you would consider those who burned down the cities of Minneapolis, Saint Paul, and Apple Valley during the BLM riots. He did use some pretty hard insinuations, and even delayed asking them to stop, but he also asked them all to go down to the capital peacefully and patriotically originally. Could he have done more to quite the rioters, maybe. But he did not in fact instigate them either.
And if trump caused the riots it’s impossible to say the democrats didn’t cause two trump assassination attempts with a straight face.
 
As a Vietnam war veteran, I will never vote for someone to be president and commander-in-chief of the military who ridiculed the military service of a man who was a POW for five and half years.

As a man, I will never vote for someone who was found guilty in a jury trial of sexual abuse.

As a law-abiding citizen, I will never vote for a convicted felon. The jury was unanimous in their decision.

As a taxpayer, I won’t vote for a President who increased the National Debt in four years greater than any other president’s four-year term.

There is a third choice on the November ballot.
 
As a Vietnam war veteran, I will never vote for someone to be president and commander-in-chief of the military who ridiculed the military service of a man who was a POW for five and half years.

As a man, I will never vote for someone who was found guilty in a jury trial of sexual abuse.

As a law-abiding citizen, I will never vote for a convicted felon. The jury was unanimous in their decision.

As a taxpayer, I won’t vote for a President who increased the National Debt in four years greater than any other president’s four-year term.

There is a third choice on the November ballot.
Your last point is BS. Most of them are really.

Vote for whoever you want. Like the anti gun candidate I’m sure you WILL vote for.
 
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As Trump once joked, "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?" That is so true.
A great example of his dry sense of humor. These little quips are almost always taken out of context and used to berate him. He is not a comedian and much as I think he has been mistreated and abused, I wish he would not try to be funny. And as an aside... it's sad when some of us will decide a vote as critical as the one upcoming on a purely personal vendetta. Especially someone who has been framed and lied about so deliberately so many times by so many supposedly outstanding and/or upstanding people.
 
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As a Vietnam war veteran, I will never vote for someone to be president and commander-in-chief of the military who ridiculed the military service of a man who was a POW for five and half years.

As a man, I will never vote for someone who was found guilty in a jury trial of sexual abuse.

As a law-abiding citizen, I will never vote for a convicted felon. The jury was unanimous in their decision.

As a taxpayer, I won’t vote for a President who increased the National Debt in four years greater than any other president’s four-year term.

There is a third choice on the November ballot.
With all due respect, each to his own. But actually he didn't "ridicule" anyone's service although I admit it was taken that way. What he said was..."I prefer people who were not captured". Crass, yes and I wouldn't have said it, but it's his opinion and you would vote based on someone's opinion you disagree with. You won't vote for someone 'convicted of sexual abuse'. Maybe he did it and maybe not. Real hard to tell after 40 years of bad memories and a lot of money for a lot of people. Do you really believe he was tried by a jury of HIS peers? As for not voting for a convicted felon... I'll ask just how fair you believe that to have been when the states AG ran on a platform of GETTING TRUMP! And again do you consider that a jury of HIS peers, especially considering the money being passed around. There are many very prominent conservative attorneys, and several liberal ones who all agree it was a witch hunt trial. Just curious, but do you consider the laptop being sworn to as not Hunters by 50 big wheels as legitimate? Or how about the 'Russian dossier'? Just seems he's not had much fairness shown. And I have to give a little slack to whatever the real increase was to the national debt when considering the pandemic, supply chain fiasco, etc. I do know for sure that my family was far better off 3.5 years ago than today. Gasoline today is back to only $0.86 more per gallon than a year ago and my wife can almost afford a whole dozen eggs at one trip to the store. Jus' sayin'!
 
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With all due respect, each to his own. But actually he didn't "ridicule" anyone's service although I admit it was taken that way. What he said was..."I prefer people who were not captured". Crass, yes and I wouldn't have said it, but it's his opinion and you would vote based on someone's opinion you disagree with. You won't vote for someone 'convicted of sexual abuse'. Maybe he did it and maybe not. Real hard to tell after 40 years of bad memories and a lot of money for a lot of people. Do you really believe he was tried by a jury of HIS peers? As for not voting for a convicted felon... I'll ask just how fair you believe that to have been when the states AG ran on a platform of GETTING TRUMP! And again do you consider that a jury of HIS peers, especially considering the money being passed around. There are many very prominent conservative attorneys, and several liberal ones who all agree it was a witch hunt trial. Just curious, but do you consider the laptop being sworn to as not Hunters by 50 big wheels as legitimate? Or how about the 'Russian dossier'? Just seems he's not had much fairness shown. And I have to give a little slack to whatever the real increase was to the national debt when considering the pandemic, supply chain fiasco, etc. I do know for sure that my family was far better off 3.5 years ago than today. Gasoline today is back to only $0.86 more per gallon than a year ago and my wife can almost afford a whole dozen eggs at one trip to the store. Jus' sayin'!

Trump also said McCain was not a war hero. McCain suffered lifetime physical disabilities when he ejected from his aircraft and suffered fractured arms and a leg. When he was dragged ashore by the enemy his shoulder was crushed by a rifle butt and they bayoneted him. McCain also refused out of sequence release at the end of the war. Keep in mind McCain’s dad was an Admiral and he could have easily stay out of the war. Those remarks and the fact they came from a draft dodger is the reason I have no respect for any Vietnam Vet who votes for Trump.

Yes, I believe Trump was convicted by a jury of his peers. What do you think a jury of your peers is, 12 billionaires? It would have taken just one juror for a hung jury, that didn't happen. Apparently, you must believe all the jurors were Democrats.

Sexual abuse? He even admitted in an interview that he could grab a woman by her Pu**y and get away with it.

And I'm sorry you are so poor your wife can't afford to buy a dozen eggs. I'm on a pension and can not only buy eggs, I can afford to buy guns too.

You cast your ballot and I'll cast my ballot. Regardless of who wins, it won't affect my life much. I will continue to travel and enjoy shooting my guns. I like that my investments increased by 36% since 2021 and even my CD's are now earning 5% annually. My life has been very good through all the Democratic and Republican administrations.
 
Trump also said McCain was not a war hero. McCain suffered lifetime physical disabilities when he ejected from his aircraft and suffered fractured arms and a leg. When he was dragged ashore by the enemy his shoulder was crushed by a rifle butt and they bayoneted him. McCain also refused out of sequence release at the end of the war. Keep in mind McCain’s dad was an Admiral and he could have easily stay out of the war. Those remarks and the fact they came from a draft dodger is the reason I have no respect for any Vietnam Vet who votes for Trump.
I don't deny anything you've said here re: McCain, nor did I deny it in my earlier post. I never heard Trump say the words you attribute to him: "McCain was not a war hero"either. I have no evidence any of what you've said is not true, therefore I'll not make that claim. Neither will I make the claim that anyone was a "draft dodger" since I have no evidence of that either.
Yes, I believe Trump was convicted by a jury of his peers. What do you think a jury of your peers is, 12 billionaires? It would have taken just one juror for a hung jury, that didn't happen. Apparently, you must believe all the jurors were Democrats.
A 'jury' of one's peers is a jury made up of those who, in a manner of speaking live the same/similar lifestyle or travel in the same/similar circles. That's not an absolute mandate but it should be as close as possible to the man on trial. In all honesty, how many of those jurists were not convinced by the prosecution that simply because Trump was as rich and famous/infamous as he is that he somehow deserved those convictions. It's done by them playing the same game as when the liberals convince the masses that "big corporations" don't pay their fair share of taxes when the same politicians who make that claim are the same ones who make the tax laws that allow them to pay as they do. But some of us never make that connection ... do you? But they'll never even mention that. I don't know, but seems to me to be some conflict there ... how 'bout you? And I won't even bring up the judge himself and some of the rulings he made. But obviously we have a difference of opinion, and the sad thing is neither you nor I can prove a damn thing either way. We take what we see/hear on news outlets we trust and try to make sense of it all. Although I'm pretty sure one of us is a tad more logical than the other. For example, I see the higher prices of goods and services than when the current admin took over, can you see those higher prices? Jus' askin' for a friend.
Sexual abuse? He even admitted in an interview that he could grab a woman by her Pu**y and get away with it.
Yes he did and again that's HIS opinion ... did that offend you in some way? And the way that got out is very indicative of what I was saying about how the man has been treated ever since he took a stand in national politics. Likely how he was looked at by that jury, but since I have no proof of that I will not make it a statement. He was basically stabbed in the back (politically/metaphorically) by what/who he thought was a friend/confidant and could make a boast like that ... It's called HYPERBOLE! I personally thought it was pretty crass, but I've heard far worse than that in a Jr High School gym class. But then I grew up and recognized I had a choice of condemning folks for what they might 'say' in a locker room situation to how they are in real life. There's an old saying about 'those who talk like drunk sailors', and I was a drunk sailor on rare occasion back about 55+ years ago and there were times I talked pretty rough. Not that I'm real proud of that, but I can assure you I've held many, many positions throughout my career that if that were a direct connection as to how I had lived my life would have never happened. I even had a drunk sailor friend who was far worse than I and he later became a Southern Missionary Baptist preacher. Point is that one can't judge a book by the cover, unless of course they're willing to gamble on just how wrong they can be!
And I'm sorry you are so poor your wife can't afford to buy a dozen eggs. I'm on a pension and can not only buy eggs, I can afford to buy guns too.
Oh my friend, I was using a little hyperbole myself there... must have slipped past you. While I'm many years retired with a very substantial nest egg, a retirement pension in the high 5 figures, all my student loans paid off by myself many years ago, relatively newer vehicles for my wife and me, several pieces of rental properties, and a credit rating above 810. I could literally buy an entire chicken/egg farm if I wanted. So a dozen eggs is not a real problem for me. However there are many, many good, hard working folks around this country that do have a difficult time buying enough eggs, milk, and groceries in general for their families that another 4 years of the insanity we've just been through will/can totally ruin some of them. Oh and BTW, I'm still paying that additional 86¢ per gallon of gas that I wasn't paying 4 years ago, and that's down from more than a $3.00 increase in a gallon of gas over the past 3.5 years. It almost seems unfair for you and me to be able to "afford to buy guns" when so many are having a hard time feeding their families, don't you think?
You cast your ballot and I'll cast my ballot. Regardless of who wins, it won't affect my life much. I will continue to travel and enjoy shooting my guns. I like that my investments increased by 36% since 2021 and even my CD's are now earning 5% annually. My life has been very good through all the Democratic and Republican administrations.
Au contraire my friend my friend ... If one of these candidates gets into office, it will definitely affect your life a lot more than you realize. In fact you have no idea yet just what this one side will/can do to this country in another 4 years. This past <4 years has brought this country closer to socialism than it has ever been in my long lifetime ... and that ain't a good thing. You'll have to decide which candidate that is. On the other hand if the other candidate is elected, there will likely be a cleansing of at least some of the corruption so deep seated in our government (deep state, and oh yes it exists) that it just might give the good ol' USA enough breathing room to recover from what it has suffered. It won't be a perfect 4 years by everyone's measure, but until and unless you can see the other option, one will never know for sure except that it didn't continue to get worse. I didn't respond to you to cause an argument, but to just offer a couple different points of view. I think I did it with respect and honesty. I'm going to agree with you that we'll both cast our ballots the way we see fit. I only hope that we both can find a way to look at the other's POV for the realities of our lives today. Like--- avg $3.00-$3.86/gal gasoline still today when it was more than a dollar less 3.5 years ago. An inflation rate of less than current (2.5%), (lowest since early in the Biden Administration which exceeded 9%), average prices of goods at >21% higher than since the pandemic recession began in early 2020, and only about 6% of the nearly 400 items the Bureau of Labor Statistics tracks cheaper today. Seems a pretty clear and easily definable choice to me ... how 'bout you? The fact is I may not make it through another 4 year administration, but I'm truly hoping to make it assuming the right side is elected. I'd truly like to see the improvement in my country and how far it made it back to the real promise of the United States of America and the American Dream. I've seen how far it can go in the wrong direction over the past 4 years. Peace!
 
Good reply Joe, but it was a wasted effort. I'd love to add about jury rules in the conviction, but that infringes on forum rules. This post, as-is, is likely enough to get scrubbed.
 
Good reply Joe, but it was a wasted effort. I'd love to add about jury rules in the conviction, but that infringes on forum rules. This post, as-is, is likely enough to get scrubbed.
Thanks ... I don't doubt the reply is wasted effort to the intended although I hope there was something there for him. I tried to cover every base without being specifically political. The reply was totally respectful, polite, and I think fairly informative. I also thought the 'Lounge' was open to any/all topics.
 
I don't deny anything you've said here re: McCain, nor did I deny it in my earlier post. I never heard Trump say the words you attribute to him: "McCain was not a war hero"either. I have no evidence any of what you've said is not true, therefore I'll not make that claim. Neither will I make the claim that anyone was a "draft dodger" since I have no evidence of that either.

A 'jury' of one's peers is a jury made up of those who, in a manner of speaking live the same/similar lifestyle or travel in the same/similar circles. That's not an absolute mandate but it should be as close as possible to the man on trial. In all honesty, how many of those jurists were not convinced by the prosecution that simply because Trump was as rich and famous/infamous as he is that he somehow deserved those convictions. It's done by them playing the same game as when the liberals convince the masses that "big corporations" don't pay their fair share of taxes when the same politicians who make that claim are the same ones who make the tax laws that allow them to pay as they do. But some of us never make that connection ... do you? But they'll never even mention that. I don't know, but seems to me to be some conflict there ... how 'bout you? And I won't even bring up the judge himself and some of the rulings he made. But obviously we have a difference of opinion, and the sad thing is neither you nor I can prove a damn thing either way. We take what we see/hear on news outlets we trust and try to make sense of it all. Although I'm pretty sure one of us is a tad more logical than the other. For example, I see the higher prices of goods and services than when the current admin took over, can you see those higher prices? Jus' askin' for a friend.

Yes he did and again that's HIS opinion ... did that offend you in some way? And the way that got out is very indicative of what I was saying about how the man has been treated ever since he took a stand in national politics. Likely how he was looked at by that jury, but since I have no proof of that I will not make it a statement. He was basically stabbed in the back (politically/metaphorically) by what/who he thought was a friend/confidant and could make a boast like that ... It's called HYPERBOLE! I personally thought it was pretty crass, but I've heard far worse than that in a Jr High School gym class. But then I grew up and recognized I had a choice of condemning folks for what they might 'say' in a locker room situation to how they are in real life. There's an old saying about 'those who talk like drunk sailors', and I was a drunk sailor on rare occasion back about 55+ years ago and there were times I talked pretty rough. Not that I'm real proud of that, but I can assure you I've held many, many positions throughout my career that if that were a direct connection as to how I had lived my life would have never happened. I even had a drunk sailor friend who was far worse than I and he later became a Southern Missionary Baptist preacher. Point is that one can't judge a book by the cover, unless of course they're willing to gamble on just how wrong they can be!

Oh my friend, I was using a little hyperbole myself there... must have slipped past you. While I'm many years retired with a very substantial nest egg, a retirement pension in the high 5 figures, all my student loans paid off by myself many years ago, relatively newer vehicles for my wife and me, several pieces of rental properties, and a credit rating above 810. I could literally buy an entire chicken/egg farm if I wanted. So a dozen eggs is not a real problem for me. However there are many, many good, hard working folks around this country that do have a difficult time buying enough eggs, milk, and groceries in general for their families that another 4 years of the insanity we've just been through will/can totally ruin some of them. Oh and BTW, I'm still paying that additional 86¢ per gallon of gas that I wasn't paying 4 years ago, and that's down from more than a $3.00 increase in a gallon of gas over the past 3.5 years. It almost seems unfair for you and me to be able to "afford to buy guns" when so many are having a hard time feeding their families, don't you think?

Au contraire my friend my friend ... If one of these candidates gets into office, it will definitely affect your life a lot more than you realize. In fact you have no idea yet just what this one side will/can do to this country in another 4 years. This past <4 years has brought this country closer to socialism than it has ever been in my long lifetime ... and that ain't a good thing. You'll have to decide which candidate that is. On the other hand if the other candidate is elected, there will likely be a cleansing of at least some of the corruption so deep seated in our government (deep state, and oh yes it exists) that it just might give the good ol' USA enough breathing room to recover from what it has suffered. It won't be a perfect 4 years by everyone's measure, but until and unless you can see the other option, one will never know for sure except that it didn't continue to get worse. I didn't respond to you to cause an argument, but to just offer a couple different points of view. I think I did it with respect and honesty. I'm going to agree with you that we'll both cast our ballots the way we see fit. I only hope that we both can find a way to look at the other's POV for the realities of our lives today. Like--- avg $3.00-$3.86/gal gasoline still today when it was more than a dollar less 3.5 years ago. An inflation rate of less than current (2.5%), (lowest since early in the Biden Administration which exceeded 9%), average prices of goods at >21% higher than since the pandemic recession began in early 2020, and only about 6% of the nearly 400 items the Bureau of Labor Statistics tracks cheaper today. Seems a pretty clear and easily definable choice to me ... how 'bout you? The fact is I may not make it through another 4 year administration, but I'm truly hoping to make it assuming the right side is elected. I'd truly like to see the improvement in my country and how far it made it back to the real promise of the United States of America and the American Dream. I've seen how far it can go in the wrong direction over the past 4 years. Peace!
Good post, woulda took me 30 minutes to type all that with my two fingers.
 
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